NDX support for 24/192 via UPnP?

Hi Leonard -

Thank you for the kind words!

Your timing on building a PC server is very good, as Chris from computeraudiophile dot com has recently published specs for his CAPS 2.0:

http://www.computeraudiophile....cket-Server-CAPS-v20

Even if you do  nothing more than use his list of requirements as a guideline, I think you'll find value in checking out this article.  Note that his original server was focused on delivering the best S/PDIF output, and this new server is instead focused on the best USB output (as he is now convinced that async USB DAC's are the way to go).  So, perhaps a good sound card with S/PDIF output in a CAPS 2.0 shell is a good solution for your nDAC?

And I totally agree with your comments on speaker choice.  While home demo is ideal, it is also irrelevant if it not possible, so all we can do is try our best.   All I can think to say is that if your D18's sound as good as they look, then you've made a great choice.  Your beautiful dog (and his pet...duck?) certainly seems to think so! 

Best of luck!

Hook

PS - I do love the NDX, but at approximately 1/5-to1/4 the cost, a PC server can deliver excellent high-quality audio streams.  At a slightly higher price point, Guy's (Guido Fawkes's) hot-rodded Sonos also looks like a good option (for 16/44.1).  And while Mrs. Hook and I do hear a really nice improvement in sound quality with the NDX, this purchase for us is also about usability and reliability:  the iPad interface coupled with preamp and DAC system automation has made my entire setup bullet-proof.   For the first time yesterday afternoon, I came home from a customer call to find Mrs. Hook sitting in *my* chair listening to....gulp....Air Supply.   When she told me she could "get used to this", I immediately grabbed the iPad from her hands, and scolded her!  I can only hope the damage to my setup isn't permanent!    

All kidding aside, I was so very happy to see this!   One other thing I forgot to mention was that the 400's project a much wider sweet spot than from the C7's.   My listening room is small, yes, but I'm now thinking it might be time to replace my Norwegian recliner with a small, comfy love seat! 

Thanks for posting this Aleg -- a fascinating read!  A glimpse into why there is clearly room for the development of competitive advantage among Pure Music, Decibel, Amarra, Audirvana, and so on.

Hook

I am sure Mrs. Hook is already complaining you spend too much time following this forum instead of listening to music, like it is the case with many of us, I guess.

Very true Aysil!   Have heard Mrs. Hook ask "posting again, are you?" once or twice of late...

I do think for a lot of us the amount of time spent here (looking for advice and/or reassurance) rises dramatically as we make major purchase decisions.

As my NDX and 400's will soon be in the rear view mirror, I have no doubt that my time spent posting will drop off considerably.  In fact, a sabbatical wouldn't be a bad idea.  Who knows, maybe I would come back to forum layout that actually made sense... 

Hook

No sabbatical! Don't let us miss your enjoyable posts in any case...

Hook,

Before buying the NDX, do you have a chance to loan a HDX as well? I know it's far expensive and you don't need a ripping machine, but I am trying to compare these two in how they render files on the network (both connected to nDAC/555PS) lately and have some interesting findings. I was curious if you would come up to the same conclusions. I don't want to complicate your life, this is just a suggestion.

Hi Aysil -

An HDX was available for a demo, but as you mention, I had no interest in the ripping engine nor in the $2900 additional cost.   Sorry I cannot be of any help in comparing their digital outputs.

Hook

aysil, (a bit late comment on your earlier post) in fact when you buy NDX for future use with nDAC you don't overpay a lot. Because you don't buy extra PS, extra casing, extra wiring, extra S/PDIF receiver, extra pre-processing section, extra packing, extra carton box, extra shipment, extra tax, extra commission for a dealer -- you're just having an extra circuit on the main board which is rather cheap and most of people  believe it is good enough to make NDX be quite a complete box to start with and most of all also believe it can be bettered by external nDAC in future. In other words removing the (actually small and inexpensive) piece of electronics from the NDX mainboard will not tangibly reduce its cost but will seriously jeopardize the commercially success in sales.  

Hi AMA, I am aware that removing the internal dac from NDX will not cut its price in half. (I don't know it it would open space for an even better ps.) I am not sure about the commercial success side though. As the importance of each step of the digital chain (and the importance of independent ps for each section) establishes itself (look at these discussions lately about the significance of rendering section), some people will not insist on one box solutions anymore. Those people who are happy with their existing dac, but would like to benefit from what Naim has accomplished in the rendering/dsp section would be more easily served with a dacless version.

PS: in fact, personally, I like NDX internal dac very much actually, even more than a nDAC nu (without 555PS)

I'm sorry, I just have a childish desire to understand how things work.  Also, I don't want to spend my money on an expensive placebo.

Hi, aysil. I can't comment on NDX as I did not hear it so far. But I constantly forget if you answered me on either you tried Klimax DS with Dynamik PS at home?  And this is not in the context of NDX/555PS or NDX/nDAC/555PS but rather as a competitor to NDX/KondoDAC.

Hi guys, I've been reading and re-reading all the posts on the NDX and trying to figure out how it all fits together with equipment.  The real confusion was seeing the back of the unit in the brochure and figuring out what cable would fit where.  I'm slowly understanding it all.  But instead of an iPad with 36GB and streaming which doesn't have as much clarity.  I was thinking of a Mini that has 320GB wired into the NDX (better sound, some higher res files) and use Nstream from my iPhone,  or from my iMac across the room to control it.

Does this seem plausible?  I could sell my CDXS and Tuner to fund much of the NDX+Mini and open up a shelf. I thought if I run out of room on one mini, I could add another for say my classical collection.  Cheaper than a Userve

I thought the DSP was in the DAC part of the NDX, not the streaming part?  Doesn't the streamer just take audio data from Ethernet and deliver it "as is" to the DAC input?

Yes, understood.  My contention is that the NDX value-add lies in the DAC, not the streamer.

Hi Noogle -

I disagree with your statement.  (Or, at least I think I do, for perhaps I am not interpreting it correctly).

My two weeks of using the NDX has convinced me that it is a fabulous streamer.  When combined with an iPad running N-Stream (or a control point of your choice), and using the system automation features, it has dramatically improved my experience of listening to digital music.  When used as two-box solution with a 555PS power supply upgrade, it delivers wonderful sound quality through its DIN analog output.

And by turning on the NDX's digital output, and adding the DAC, Naim has also provided an upgrade path to even further enhance its sound. In my, and several other member's listening tests, the ultimate in sound quality was achieved by then also moving the 555PS from the NDX to the DAC.

Of course, you are certainly entitled to your opinion as is which combination sounds best, and i'll look forward to hearing that opinion after you've listened to them.

Simon -

I think the whole notion of whether oversampling is used for the S/PDIF output is a red herring.  When I compared the NDX to my PC Server's S/PDIF output, the improvement in sound quality was obvious.  Mrs. Hook had no problem getting perfect scores in our blind test.  This leads me to believe that it is very important to not only deliver a bit perfect data stream, but to do so with the minimal amount of vibration, noise and RF pollution.   As far as I can tell, the NDX excels at doing exactly that.

The fact that it is allows me use an iPad to control volume, and select inputs on both my 252 and DAC is just gravy. 

Hook

AMA,

Yes, I had answered your question. I had auditioned the earlier version of KDS long ago, and I did not make a direct comparison; I can have no comment on the context you mention. I must say, for my purposes, I am not really curious either.

mudwolf,

No need for macmini in your system as you already have a computer. You would just need a NAS to store your files and play them even when your iMac is not running.

However, I don't understand why you want to get rid of your CDXS and why the look of your cd collection on the racks  is bothering you.

aysil, that's fine. Just there is good number of people outside the Linn devotees/community who did fair tests and now believe that KDS is the ultimate digital source on the modern audiophile market. In operational terms btw it will be the same as using NDX with uPnP.

AMA,

I had found KDS not up to the level of my (still) existing cdtransport/dac combi . This had delayed my entry to computer audio for another year. I still prefer my cdtransport/dac combi, but Naim attracted me to computer audio (and to this forum) by offering ripping included solutions and these slowly became essential components of my music system. For playback of high resolution downloads, I have the HDX which is, according to my  experience, even better than NDX in sq, when combined with an external dac. Therefore I have no curiosity for KDS. But, if you are interested, you should surely check if its sound characteristics would be to your liking, and tell us what you think.

In my case selling a tuner and CDP would make the rest of the NDX affordable.  Otherwise I have a bare NDX and my 555PS is still on my CDX2 where I'm feeding it CDs one at a time.  I thought I'd eliminate 2 basic boxes at one time and have more streaming options to boot.

I'm thinking I'd better fiddle with my iTunes first see limitations there and then around Xmas have the money.

aysil, I actually did it and reported my findings on the forum. I also do not find KDS to be an ultimate solution and I clearly see its week points comparing to Naim sound but there are very strong elements in KDS sound presentation which I'm really charmed with. This is a very well-balanced silky-smooth analogue type digital source with extremely high resolution and imaging. It takes digital very close to the vinyl performance. I could not do A/B but from the memory it sounded better than MBL SACD/DAC combo. Linn has recently released a new KDS/1 with improved jitter handling and even more open and spacious sound -- I'd love to demo the one against a MBL SACD/DAC. 

Can you drop down a couple words in what sonic departments KDS falls short comparing to Kondo DAC?

AMA,

I agree the KDS has a charming sound, you don't fall in love only if you've already fallen in love elsewhere.

Why do you want to demo a SACD combo? Do you have a lot of SACDs? For CDs, only-CD-transport is better, the laser is optimised for CD.

I do have SACD but it's not the point -- just a local Naim/Linn dealer has a top MBL SACD/DAC combo on display and I'd love to run regular CDs through it to check how does it go in direct A/B tests against Linn KDS. I hope he will agree on this hassle demo.