Tidal sound problems

BigH47 posted:

 

Is there any software that can view the network to see if there are any drops in levels of digital activity ?

TIA

Howard

How about Activity Monitor (in OSX Utilities). This monitors network activity, amongst other things, although I'm not sure if this is your whole network, or more likely just network traffic to and from the individual Mac.

No doubt someone more tech-savvy will have a more sophisticated suggestion, but this may be worth a look, seeing as every Mac has it. 

Did you check the Audirvana Preferences? Specifically the SystOptimizer and Audio Filers/Filter max length? I always set the Optimizer to "Extreme" and Filter max length to something reasonable.

BigH47 posted:

Over the past few days I am getting a lot of what can only be called pauses sometimes a few times a track. Needless to say this is annoying to say the least. Previously there have been the digital equivalent of a vinyl click, but these newer ones are just a fraction longer and almost sound like a volume reduction but are still so quick it only leaves an impression.

I'm prepared to believe my system is at fault, the iMac is ready for replacement I think it is running super slow and at times almost every carriage return results in a "beachball", can this cause problems elsewhere on my network? Saying that these Tidal glitches happen when iMac is not being used or at least the "operator" was only listening elsewhere in the room.

Music is using a dedicated Mac Mini and on the same 8 way switch as iMac, printer etc.

Is there any software that can view the network to see if there are any drops in levels of digital activity ?

TIA

Howard

Hi Howard - there is software - but you really need to know how TCP/IP works to understand it? If you do then of course have you considered WireShark - its free to download? WireShark will show you precisely the communication flow between the streamer and the Tidal server and you can see effectively the buffers clearing out if the flow stalls due to data rate issues or transfer  retry attempts.

Simon

Btw, I just remember now that yesterday I received an email from Damien, the highly respected Audirvana owner/developer, and this is what he said

regarding the slow mac, it may be the harddrive.

Am no technical wizard on networks etc. but you probably have homed correctly  into the problem being related to your aging iMac.  Do you reboot it regularly as I was having real problems with iTunes from my not so aged MacBook a few days ago, which I leave on for days, gave it a reboot and all was well. 

I have a plethora of devices hanging off my wifi network delivering music, including a NAS, a PC, an iPad, a MacBook Air, my ancient iPhone 4 , Spotify, iTunes, have had Tidal, a main AV system with  two satellites, a Muso and a B&W A7, all coexisting and functioning quite happily. Music formats are from WAV to AAC.  I do have CDs but never play them.

Just to clarify the music is on the NAS and controlled by iTunes on the MacMini. I just wondered if a failing iMac on the same network could "pull" things down"?

Another strange happening , whilst trying to see what might be wrong with Tidal if anything, I used it via Safari, whenever the TV I'm using to access the MacMini when to screen saver the music from Tidal stops a few seconds later, doesn't seem to be the same as Firefox or Chrome.

A diagram of my network is shown. Optical to NAIM is via a 2Qute for TV sound into NAIM and via USB on MacMini.

Are all these devices connected through wires and switches? Looks pretty complicated and, to my mind, unnecessary. Even if you are religiously against wifi, many of these devices would happily coexist through wifi obviating the need for all the switches. 

Via wifi, I have my Muso, my A7, my network printer, my second Sky box is connected to my LG television and the Muso via optical connection. All downloads to the Muso connected television eg movies are via wifi. Anything talking to the Muso or A7 uses wifi. My PC, MacBook Air, iPad and iPhone only use wifi.

Hard wired to my switch or the router is my NAS, AV amp, Apple TV, Samsung TV, primary Sky Box, Marantz DVD/CD player. 

My internet connection is about 40 Mbps, although as I have an extender that means about 20 mbps in each zone. The wifi speed is between 30 and 50 mbps. 

I have to say that if I use iTunes on my iPad to the Muso and certain applications at the same time eg The Times there can be conflict that distorts or stops the music. This has nothing to do with the network and everything to do with memory management ie the iPad's operating system.

Hi,

Up until recently, I haven't experienced the Tidal buffering/connectivity problems experienced by some people. However, since returning from holiday, I have been experiencing the odd glitch.

Today seems very much worse than normal. Has anyone else experienced similar problems?

Interestingly, I appear to have no problems streaming the same album/tracks from Tidal on my Linn Klimax system. I have re-tried the tracks several times on my Naim stream, but with similar problems each time. Can anyone think of any reason why Tidal is streaming (apparently) perfectly on my Linn streamer today, but not so on my Naim streamer?  

Just given up on Tidal on my Naim streamer today. It's unlistenable due to the regular buffering gaps.

Just been listening to Tidal via a Mu-so:

played the new Gregory Porter several times - no problems

switched to George Coleman, A Master Speaks - first track pauses briefly every 10m sec or so

switched to new Phronesis - no problems

switched back to George Coleman - first track pauses briefly every 10m sec or so

So is the problem album dependent?

Maybe not - tried George Coleman again - playing perfectly.

No, but it can be Tidal server dependent, different tracks/albums are streamed from different Tidal servers..

Simin

Yes the inconsistency is so frustrating I also gave up on Tidal tonight

It will get better with Naim and Tidal, but I know it's been quite a wait....

It does appear to be a Naim/Tidal problem.  My friend lives a mile from me with the same broadband supplier and tidal is unusable on his muso.  I got it a few weeks back on Audirvana and it was superb from the off.  Having said that I'm sure that they will get it right and that it will sound great when they do.

I don't see Tidal as a NAIM problem, as it glitches on my system without any NAIM streaming components or Apps.

Might be so, but Naim have developed firmware that performs better with Tidal and reduces/eliminates glitches.. This firmware is under test.

My Tidal App player very rarely if ever glitches. Looking at the data on the line Tidal very occasionally has issues as is the  case with nearly all services on a public network, but the vast majority of times it appears to be behaving correctly... albeit the dynamics of a particular data transfer can vary, and the host or renderer needs to be able to manage these variations.

Simon

As a slight aside any ideas why when using Safari as the TV I use as a monitor goes into screen save or I minimise the Tidal window, the sound from Tidal stops. It doesn't happen on iTunes or with Tidal using Firefox or Chrome?

Thank you Simon. It's good news that Naim is developing a software upgrade to stop the "pausing" with TIDAL. Let's hope this update will be available soon,. TIDAL is great - but the pauses  ... :-(

Elektrostat posted:

Thank you Simon. It's good news that Naim is developing a software upgrade to stop the "pausing" with TIDAL. Let's hope this update will be available soon,. TIDAL is great - but the pauses  ... :-(

Hi,

Remember that the TIDAL 'pauses' only affect a small percentage of users and are caused by end-to-end throughput issues - we've done a lot of tweaking in conjunction with TIDAL to try to improve this and that's in the next firmware version but the TIDAL implementation that's in the current software isn't 'broken' or defective - it's just that some internet connections push the boundaries further than we can accommodate in the current release and the nest release should be even more accommodating.

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

Elektrostat posted:

Thank you Simon. It's good news that Naim is developing a software upgrade to stop the "pausing" with TIDAL. Let's hope this update will be available soon,. TIDAL is great - but the pauses  ... :-(

Hi,

Remember that the TIDAL 'pauses' only affect a small percentage of users and are caused by end-to-end throughput issues - we've done a lot of tweaking in conjunction with TIDAL to try to improve this and that's in the next firmware version but the TIDAL implementation that's in the current software isn't 'broken' or defective - it's just that some internet connections push the boundaries further than we can accommodate in the current release and the nest release should be even more accommodating.

Phil

Phil,

That's a fascinating answer. Are you saying that ISPs and or their routers are presenting too much data to Maim products? Is this akin to memory overflow or leakage within an operating system  e.g. addressing outside memory range, or simply the data cannot be processed fast enough?

Sorry to say but I solved my Naim/TIDAL-problem by switching from the Naim ND5 XS to a OPPO 103D. Works fine with TIDAL. No problems, no pauses. Lets hope Naim Audio can solve the problem too as the chinese Oppo couldt. :-(

I know this will jinx it but more than happy with Tidal recently, had a couple of hickups on Radio paradise, but that may have been their end may be updates.

I've been having stuttering problems too with my new Mu-So since yesterday.  Looking forward to any fixes Naim can provide,