Melco Ups The Game

tonym posted:

Bart posted:

KRM posted:

garyi posted:

I am interested to understand what makes an SSD drive 'audio grade'

Did your man explain what makes an ssd 'audio grade?'

The review in this month's Hi-Fi News says their data management has been optimised to suit read-only media files. Not sure if that helps?

I have no idea what that means. Or why or how it affects sonics.

My bias is that there is more room for sonic variance (shall we say) from devices connected directly to a dac that with network servers connected thru a home network, switch, etc etc.  The latter is how I roll; if something can knock my $250 nas off the shelf, I'd be intrigued but skeptical.

I've always found the proof of the pudding's in the eating. I was pretty skeptical myself (it's just a NAS, isn't it? I mean, it should be easy enough to replicate with a good standard NAS etc.) but I thought I'd better try one before spouting off too much. On your comment regarding direct connection vs. going through a network, looking at the various postings regarding problems with the latter I think a direct USB connection from player to DAC is likely to be rather better.

If one wants a usb dac, then sure.  I guess you've not seen my posts noting that I have zero issues 'going through a network' or that I have two systems and thus share a music library (over the network).   Or that I like to keep the whirring hard drives out of the music room.  (No, I'm not Chuck from Better Call Saul.)

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Nick from Suffolk posted:

Looking at the picture of the inside of the Melco unit makes one appreciate the sheer simplicity of music reproduction via a turntable, arm and cartridge!

Hmm, but look at the electronics in a top flight phono preamp and its powersupply , and TT motor regulator... yes definitely not as busy as the Melco... But not a million miles away...

But you still need a DAC, pre-amp plus the attendant power supplies for the Melco. A good TT is still a million miles away in complexity and almost certainly sounds better!

Apologies for going off-topic.

Clay Bingham posted:

Hi Bart

Let's test my ignorance. In your case Minim is a server program located on the Synology NAS replacing the Naim server app on the Unitiserve correct? In this scenario, are you ripping thru your MAC/PC  in lieu of using the Unitiserve?  Not inexpensive but folks seem to agree that the Unitiserve is special/convenient/foolproof as a ripper. What are you seeing as the advantages with your alternative? I'm not Simon, I need easy/straightforward.

Thanks

Hi Clay,

Yes w/o the UnitiServe you'd still need a way to rip cd's. I use my laptop (Macbook).  Ripping cd's on a computer is pretty darn foolproof. albeit taking a few more steps than just popping the cd into the UnitiServe to get the music into the library.  If you have hundreds (or more) of cd's to rip, the convenience may be attractive.  Now-a-days most new music for me is digital downloads.  I rip a cd every 2 weeks probably.

I use dbpoweramp to rip my CDs. One thing I've found is that a lot of the album art that the UnitiServe, which I had previously, found is very low definition, often about 200 by 200 pixels, whereas the art found by dbpoweramp is much better. Naim made a lot of the fact that the Serve, HDX etc check the rips against a 'special' database to ensure they are bit perfect, but of course dbpoweramp does exactly the same. Like Bart, most of my music is downloaded, and it can be weeks between ripping CDs. 

KRM posted:

The same review focuses on the USB connection, which it rates highly. It references a previous review by Andrew Everard (sometimes of this parish) who found the Ethernet connection sounded only marginally better than a NAS via a switch. Others have found significant improvements. 

When I tried an N1Z on my system I struggled to hear any difference (via the Ethernet connection).  Given I wanted to like the unit (so possible positive confirmation bias) I was surprised by this result. 

I'm not suggesting others haven't heard improvements, it's clear from the multiple comments that they have.  It just didn't do it for me.  At least that saved me £6K.

Given I also didn't like the sound of a second 555PS into an NDS maybe I'm just one of those pesky edge cases

Graham Clarke posted:

........  maybe I'm just one of those pesky edge cases

Yes I know the feeling

My dealer has taken against because it uses Twonky, so it will not be easy to get a demo.

Keith

Bart posted:

tonym posted:

Bart posted:

KRM posted:

garyi posted:

I am interested to understand what makes an SSD drive 'audio grade'

Did your man explain what makes an ssd 'audio grade?'

The review in this month's Hi-Fi News says their data management has been optimised to suit read-only media files. Not sure if that helps?

I have no idea what that means. Or why or how it affects sonics.

My bias is that there is more room for sonic variance (shall we say) from devices connected directly to a dac that with network servers connected thru a home network, switch, etc etc.  The latter is how I roll; if something can knock my $250 nas off the shelf, I'd be intrigued but skeptical.

I've always found the proof of the pudding's in the eating. I was pretty skeptical myself (it's just a NAS, isn't it? I mean, it should be easy enough to replicate with a good standard NAS etc.) but I thought I'd better try one before spouting off too much. On your comment regarding direct connection vs. going through a network, looking at the various postings regarding problems with the latter I think a direct USB connection from player to DAC is likely to be rather better.

If one wants a usb dac, then sure.  I guess you've not seen my posts noting that I have zero issues 'going through a network' or that I have two systems and thus share a music library (over the network).   Or that I like to keep the whirring hard drives out of the music room.  (No, I'm not Chuck from Better Call Saul.)

A small point - my Melco hasn't got whirring hard drives.

PS, big fan of Better Call Saul. What a great character that Chuck is!

Graham Clarke posted:

KRM posted:

The same review focuses on the USB connection, which it rates highly. It references a previous review by Andrew Everard (sometimes of this parish) who found the Ethernet connection sounded only marginally better than a NAS via a switch. Others have found significant improvements. 

When I tried an N1Z on my system I struggled to hear any difference (via the Ethernet connection).  Given I wanted to like the unit (so possible positive confirmation bias) I was surprised by this result. 

I'm not suggesting others haven't heard improvements, it's clear from the multiple comments that they have.  It just didn't do it for me.  At least that saved me £6K.

Given I also didn't like the sound of a second 555PS into an NDS maybe I'm just one of those pesky edge cases

It's so important to try stuff in your own system, isn't it? I didn't like the SL interconnect so I'm also a pesky edge case Graham! 

tonym posted:

Graham Clarke posted:

KRM posted:

The same review focuses on the USB connection, which it rates highly. It references a previous review by Andrew Everard (sometimes of this parish) who found the Ethernet connection sounded only marginally better than a NAS via a switch. Others have found significant improvements. 

When I tried an N1Z on my system I struggled to hear any difference (via the Ethernet connection).  Given I wanted to like the unit (so possible positive confirmation bias) I was surprised by this result. 

I'm not suggesting others haven't heard improvements, it's clear from the multiple comments that they have.  It just didn't do it for me.  At least that saved me £6K.

Given I also didn't like the sound of a second 555PS into an NDS maybe I'm just one of those pesky edge cases

It's so important to try stuff in your own system, isn't it? I didn't like the SL interconnect so I'm also a pesky edge case Graham! 

Oh, absolutely Tony.

The weird thing is that when I listened to an N1Z at UHES the difference was noticeable.  But not at my home.  Suspect it is something to do with the differing environments. 

My NAS and switch are on a different circuit from the dedicated one for my hifi and are a long way away from the rest of the kit.  Maybe those all make a difference?  I wonder how many with Melcos do not have a NAS/switch set up in that manner?

Just upgraded N1A here to V3.0 via internet straight to N1A via front button/menu. Took about 3-4 mins to download and update. Playing David Gilmour for a more chilled listen and initially it sounds a little bit cleaner and a touch more focused, but need to have longer listen.

Jeff Anderson posted:

Tony, sounds like a nice time spent amongst like-minded acquaintances and an upgrade and increased knowledge as well.  Hope the Melco continues to bring you great enjoyment.  regards, Jeff A

Thanks Jeff, good to hear from you again!

Just a quick test for ripping a CD. The front USB found the Samsung Blu-Ray portable straight away, loaded a CD, it found 2 examples online for metadata, I selected the correct one and it ripped in 5 minutes to FLAC. Didn't need to do or add anything all on autopilot, very UnitiServe like in that respect. 

Direct to import-cd folder found on NAIM app and playing now. Will check menus if I can select WAV for ripping, or if a FLAC-WAV on the fly conversion is in the new V3.0 firmware.

Pretty simple (although US was doing this years ago of course, which I owned in the day) but still nicely done IMHO this part of the software upgrade.

tonym posted:

Bart posted:

tonym posted:

Bart posted:

KRM posted:

garyi posted:

I am interested to understand what makes an SSD drive 'audio grade'

Did your man explain what makes an ssd 'audio grade?'

The review in this month's Hi-Fi News says their data management has been optimised to suit read-only media files. Not sure if that helps?

I have no idea what that means. Or why or how it affects sonics.

My bias is that there is more room for sonic variance (shall we say) from devices connected directly to a dac that with network servers connected thru a home network, switch, etc etc.  The latter is how I roll; if something can knock my $250 nas off the shelf, I'd be intrigued but skeptical.

I've always found the proof of the pudding's in the eating. I was pretty skeptical myself (it's just a NAS, isn't it? I mean, it should be easy enough to replicate with a good standard NAS etc.) but I thought I'd better try one before spouting off too much. On your comment regarding direct connection vs. going through a network, looking at the various postings regarding problems with the latter I think a direct USB connection from player to DAC is likely to be rather better.

If one wants a usb dac, then sure.  I guess you've not seen my posts noting that I have zero issues 'going through a network' or that I have two systems and thus share a music library (over the network).   Or that I like to keep the whirring hard drives out of the music room.  (No, I'm not Chuck from Better Call Saul.)

A small point - my Melco hasn't got whirring hard drives.

 

PS, big fan of Better Call Saul. What a great character that Chuck is!

Ahh I see -- 2 x 512 gb sdd.  One tb total wouldn't be quite enough for me.

(yes, Michael McKeon as Chuck really is the star of Better Call Saul!)

And I thought we were the only people we knew watching Better Call Saul.

Bart posted 

If one wants a usb dac, then sure.  I guess you've not seen my posts noting that I have zero issues 'going through a network' or that I have two systems and thus share a music library (over the network).   Or that I like to keep the whirring hard drives out of the music room.  (No, I'm not Chuck from Better Call Saul.)

A small point - my Melco hasn't got whirring hard drives.

 

PS, big fan of Better Call Saul. What a great character that Chuck is!

Ahh I see -- 2 x 512 gb sdd.  One tb total wouldn't be quite enough for me.

(yes, Michael McKeon as Chuck really is the star of Better Call Saul!)

I guess it depends how you manage your music. My main library's stored on a 6TB Thunderbolt drive on my iMac and copied to a QNAP NAS. I've transferred my most played stuff from there to the Melco; It's used up 3/4 of the ssds so far. The Melco "sees" the QNAP via its PLEX server so I can play stuff from there, or in our other home via the internet. I also use the Melco's library for my Mu So, which sounds better than either the NAS or Mac. You can add additional storage via one of the USB expansion ports, should you so desire. Or do like Bert & get a 6TB model!

tonym posted:

Regarding the "audio grade" SSDs, IIRC it's something to do with the way data is moved around on these compared to a standard SSD. Maybe someone more technical can explain. Incidentally, it's possible to use Minimserver on the Melco; it's not officially supported but if you visit the Minimserver forum, Mr Spoon'll send you the necessary instructions, although the new system on the Melco works a treat.

I don't think you'll find mrspoon sending any instructions, in fact I'd imagine he'd be a bit peeved if you asked. 

SJB

Sloop John B posted:

tonym posted:

Regarding the "audio grade" SSDs, IIRC it's something to do with the way data is moved around on these compared to a standard SSD. Maybe someone more technical can explain. Incidentally, it's possible to use Minimserver on the Melco; it's not officially supported but if you visit the Minimserver forum, Mr Spoon'll send you the necessary instructions, although the new system on the Melco works a treat.

I don't think you'll find mrspoon sending any instructions, in fact I'd imagine he'd be a bit peeved if you asked. 

 

 

 

SJB

Check the Minimserver forum. It's how  got the instructions.

tonym posted:

Sloop John B posted:

tonym posted:

Regarding the "audio grade" SSDs, IIRC it's something to do with the way data is moved around on these compared to a standard SSD. Maybe someone more technical can explain. Incidentally, it's possible to use Minimserver on the Melco; it's not officially supported but if you visit the Minimserver forum, Mr Spoon'll send you the necessary instructions, although the new system on the Melco works a treat.

I don't think you'll find mrspoon sending any instructions, in fact I'd imagine he'd be a bit peeved if you asked. 

 

 

 

SJB

Check the Minimserver forum. It's how  got the instructions.

Sorry my attempt at humour was poor. Mrspoon is asset, Simon I believe is Minim. 

SJB

Sorry SJB, should have twigged! It's my age you see...

Dan43 posted:

Just a quick test for ripping a CD. The front USB found the Samsung Blu-Ray portable straight away, loaded a CD, it found 2 examples online for metadata, I selected the correct one and it ripped in 5 minutes to FLAC. Didn't need to do or add anything all on autopilot, very UnitiServe like in that respect. 

Direct to import-cd folder found on NAIM app and playing now. Will check menus if I can select WAV for ripping, or if a FLAC-WAV on the fly conversion is in the new V3.0 firmware.

Pretty simple (although US was doing this years ago of course, which I owned in the day) but still nicely done IMHO this part of the software upgrade.

How do manage the ripping process?  My N1A (yet to have the firmware upgrade) can only be controlled from the front panel button menu which is a bit tedious.

PeterJ posted:

Dan43 posted:

Just a quick test for ripping a CD. The front USB found the Samsung Blu-Ray portable straight away, loaded a CD, it found 2 examples online for metadata, I selected the correct one and it ripped in 5 minutes to FLAC. Didn't need to do or add anything all on autopilot, very UnitiServe like in that respect. 

Direct to import-cd folder found on NAIM app and playing now. Will check menus if I can select WAV for ripping, or if a FLAC-WAV on the fly conversion is in the new V3.0 firmware.

Pretty simple (although US was doing this years ago of course, which I owned in the day) but still nicely done IMHO this part of the software upgrade.

How do manage the ripping process?  My N1A (yet to have the firmware upgrade) can only be controlled from the front panel button menu which is a bit tedious.

There is not too much to manage - you insert the disc into your CD ripper, the onboard software looks online for the disc title and you select the correct title and press the 'OK' button.

Not difficult.

Best,

Bryan

Audio Visionary posted:

There is not too much to manage - you insert the disc into your CD ripper, the onboard software looks online for the disc title and you select the correct title and press the 'OK' button.

Not difficult.

Best,

Bryan

Thanks Bryan

How does it compare to DBPowerAmp in terms of error checking and metadata management?

KRM posted:

My dealer has taken against because it uses Twonky, so it will not be easy to get a demo.

Keith

Apparently you can put Minimserver straight onto it Keith. See further up the thread. So no need to touch Twonky and possibly something for the dealer to look into?

Hi Harry,

Thanks, but I knew that as I chatted with Alan Ainslie about it at the Bristol Show. However, our mutual friend remains unconvinced.