NAPSC vanishes from naim.com and 202 upgrade path

Naim please leave the casework alone. I want all my Naim boxes to match. They look great as they are. 

I think Richard or someone else can bring the light here, normally the customers have the right to be informed. In my opinion a change it's ready to come, power amps 2015, pre next year, speakers ... focal...

Adi Stefan posted:

I think Richard or someone else can bring the light here, normally the customers have the right to be informed. In my opinion a change it's ready to come, power amps 2015, pre next year, speakers ... focal...

The desire to know can burn for sure. But "a right to be informed"? I see no scenario where we have a "right" to know anything about an unreleased product.

feeling_zen posted:

Adi Stefan posted:

I think Richard or someone else can bring the light here, normally the customers have the right to be informed. In my opinion a change it's ready to come, power amps 2015, pre next year, speakers ... focal...

The desire to know can burn for sure. But "a right to be informed"? I see no scenario where we have a "right" to know anything about an unreleased product.

The right to know whats up with napsc, the other part its from you.

In my view we'll be seeing more streaming preamps: the 372 to replace the 252, and possibly a 572 to replace the 552, with the 202, 282, 252 and 552 being dropped. At the moment the range is far too wide and confusing. The 272 is pretty damn close to the NDX and 282, for less than half the price. If Naim go this way they can very likely drop the Flatcap, Hicap and Supercap, possibly the active crossovers and very likely the CD players too. That's what I'd do, anyway. 

I'm betting on a 372...

Adam Zielinski posted:

I'm betting on a 372...

...that makes the 272 sound 'broken' by comparison .

G

And the 282 totally wrecked...

My contribution to the rumour mill.

I suggest we will be getting both a posh new streamer/pre (372 and/or 572) and a refresh to the pre amp range with the same overall case design as they would need to match the current and recently updated power supplies and power amps.

If the Classic pre amp range is refreshed they will most likely get the new posh volume control and what else, I am not sure. As Naim have shown no desire to alienate current owners of pre upgraded boxes making pre DR boxes DR'able and streaming boards upgradable (96 to 192) for example, maybe current pre amps might also be upgradable to the spec of the refreshed range. Could the new volume control be retrofittable for example? It is certainly very simple to switch out circuit boards. Or wishful thinking maybe.

Anyway, a bit of speculation from me.

The posh volume control is lovely, but it doesn't have a light and as the 282 etc don't have a display it might not be practical. I'd suggest that Naim would be wise to make fewer products rather than more. But it's all idle speculation and who knows, they may diversify into toasters instead. They could have a digital toastiness control ranging from Statement White, through Super Lumina Brown all the way to Inky Blackness. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

But it's all idle speculation and who knows, they may diversify into toasters instead. They could have a digital toastiness control ranging from Statement White, through Super Lumina Brown all the way to Inky Blackness. 

You only get inky blackness if using the correct Burnty.

G

This idle speculation stuff is fun! 

Anyone else?

GraemeH posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

But it's all idle speculation and who knows, they may diversify into toasters instead. They could have a digital toastiness control ranging from Statement White, through Super Lumina Brown all the way to Inky Blackness. 

You only get inky blackness if using the correct Burnty.

G

Ouch!

I doubt it - 272 is as high as Naim will go with regards to streaming preamp.

There is only so much you can do in one box. and the space is already full inside 272

552 already comes in 2 boxes and so does 252.

Drewy posted:

Naim please leave the casework alone. I want all my Naim boxes to match. They look great as they are. 

What he said!

Why not make a 272 without PSU onboard like NDS?

That'll be the 372. 

Indeed

analogmusic posted:

I doubt it - 272 is as high as Naim will go with regards to streaming preamp.

There is only so much you can do in one box. and the space is already full inside 272

 

552 already comes in 2 boxes and so does 252.

You might be right but the two box arrangement with the 552 and 252 is primarily to remove the power supply from the delicate and sensitive pre amp circuitry. A 272 would have more space if the transformer were removed an an external power supply became obligatory which might facilitate a 372 level streamer/pre amp.

The limitation of the streamer/pre amp concept might be more to do with the degree to which each component (pre amp and streamer) generates and induces noise rather than the space available in a single box. There might come a point where the benefits from removal of an interconnect in a streamer/pre amp are outweighed but the inevitable deterioration in SQ caused but noise interference within a single box housing two components. Clearly this is not the case with the 272 which seems to have been both a sonic and commercial success. There may be issues however if this one box streamer/pre concept is pushed up to say the level of a 252/552 and NDS level. The same rationale is clearly evident as you go up Naim hierarchy and you start to see pre amps, power amps and streamers all starting to appear in separate boxes.

But I wonder if a 272 could conceptually be pushed to a 372 with one or even two obligatory external power supplies which would be at the level of say a 252/NDS combo? Ah, but the 252 is about to be replaced, isn't it? 

Of course it can. And perhaps external power supplies are not totally necessary.

Yes, but the Scottish company and the English company have always done things differently and I am sure both companies have their own reasons for their differing approaches.

more to it than adding power supplies.

As you go up the range, less is not more, it is about powering each part of the preamp, and power amp with a regulated power supply

so the 500 DR has many more regulators than 250 DR, even though they have almost the same size of transformer.

SO unless there is some new power supply that is able to power each part of this yet unborn 372 as well as NDX with XPS (7 regulated rails) and 252 (13 regulated rails) with Supercap separately, there is no way that the 372 is going to sound even at NDX/252 level.

we got the 272, and thank you to Naim for that, but I think it is as far as it goes.

quality does cost money and Naim's completion are not lowering their prices either (think of Linn, Krell, Levinson, etc...)

Another way to look at it, is at 252/Supercap prices level, people do expect a LOT. and Naim is all about performance.

All i my humble opinion.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Of course it can. And perhaps external power supplies are not totally necessary.

Hmmm - but then you did buy 272/XPSDR/250DR yourself didn't you?

Yes, that's true. When I wanted something better than the SU, I was thinking of Linn, but then Naim bought out the 272. It would have been a shame to leave Naim after 33 years, but I wasn't willing to accept a plethora of boxes to get a decent sound. I see no reason whatsoever that Naim cannot upscale the streaming preamp. It may not have every ounce of the performance of a NDS/252, but if it's half the price and half the size, people will buy it in droves. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Yes, that's true. When I wanted something better than the SU, I was thinking of Linn, but then Naim bought out the 272. It would have been a shame to leave Naim after 33 years, but I wasn't willing to accept a plethora of boxes to get a decent sound. I see no reason whatsoever that Naim cannot upscale the streaming preamp. It may not have every ounce of the performance of a NDS/252, but if it's half the price and half the size, people will buy it in droves. 

Even if the imaginary 373 were half the size, two thirds of the cost and two thirds of the SQ (?) of the 252/NDS combo, it might still be an attractive proposition, particularly to those who want to limit their spend and limit the amount of black boxes in their living room.