NAPSC vanishes from naim.com and 202 upgrade path

I don't believe KRM has one, and his view is therefore objective. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I don't believe KRM has one, and his view is therefore objective. 

Within close margins I'd say all views are subjective. One man's 'very close too' is anothers 'not nearly as good'.

We all have our audio brains tuned to the waveband we personally can live with at our set price.

G

Yep, I had a 282 and now have a 252.

My list of stuff didn't mention that the Statement project taught Naim a lot. The beneficiaries so have been the DR products and the 272. It looks like the preamps are next.

Keith

GraemeH posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I don't believe KRM has one, and his view is therefore objective. 

Within close margins I'd say all views are subjective. One man's 'very close too' is anothers 'not nearly as good'.

We all have our audio brains tuned to the waveband we personally can live with at our set price.

G

Perhaps I should have said 'unfettered by ownership bias'. Personally, having heard an NDX with 282/Hicap DR and 250DR, my 272/XPS seems just as good, but then I've got different speakers, different room etc. 

The thing for me is that it's as good or nearly as good for a lot less money. And what's really interesting is what Naim do next and how much they can raise the performance at each price point, whether it's stand alone preamps or streaming preamps. Imagine a new 282 that's as good as a 252 for the same price as a current 282 - that surely is potentially what might be around the corner if the experience of the 272 is anything to go by. 

HH, Imagine a current 282 that sounds better than a 252 for less money. Oh, we already have that.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Especially those who own a 282, who seem to find the 272 somehow threatening, or at least that's what some of their more defensive posts imply. Could it really be that something half the price is virtually as good? 

Well threat is somewhat over dramatising it.  But of course us 282 die-hards are only responding to the almost evangelical preaching of the 272 communion.  It's almost as good you know....not quite.....almost.......

All good fun.    

The ownership bias swings both ways. A 272 owner can be equally inclined to want to think its as good as product X which cost Y times more or required more boxes than they had room for. It goes round and round.

But I agree it will be interesting to see what they do next. Consolidating functions into single boxes that require fewer dedicated power supply feeds has it pros and cons. On one side there will be a segment of users put off by current offerings that may be inclined to go for something like that where teh 272 was not at the desired level previously. On the other hand, it would be a bit like Naim saying, "sorry guys, we've just realised our whole approach to extreme seperates with no two functions sharing a box has been wrong all these years - Linn were right all along."

I don't feel that Naim are likely to do something that basically revises or waters down their whole design philosophy. I do however see Naim acknowledging current trends that are clearly not going away. Other threads have, for example, discussed the merits for/against so many analog inputs or the record out row. While it is clear that a minority would be thoroughly upset if this changed, it is clear that this is just that, a minority. Although I don't expect it is what we'll see, I think it not impossible that we see shoebox sized 282 level preamp with only a couple inputs.

But the changes could be equally mundane like a 302, 382 and 352 that look idendical to their predecessors. I would be as happy either way.

Bob the Builder posted:

So we have gone from a disappearing Napsc to Naim Audio moving production to China!

Yes, fun isn't it!

I don't really care about any preamp refresh as I am happy with my 282 and not going to change it anything other than a 552.

I'm with Analog.  

Hungryhalibut posted:

Of course it can. And perhaps external power supplies are not totally necessary.

Heresy!  

analogmusic posted:

I don't really care about any preamp refresh as I am happy with my 282 and not going to change it anything other than a 552.

I might have imagined it - but the preamps including mine were only refreshed a few years ago when their power supplies were upgraded and DR'd. Any more refreshing and you won't know where you are...this is Naim not Apple...

Agreed Simon. That's why I don't think we're going see radical change.Howerver, I do think they may want to apply stuff they've leant from the Statement. I hope they don't change the boxes.

Keith

GraemeH posted:

 

We all have our audio brains tuned to the waveband we personally can live with at our set price.

G

Very well put sir. 

SJB

I wonder what can be improved with the Classic range of preamplifiers. If I am not mistaken, all NAC202, NAC282, NAC252 (and perhaps the NAC552) are launched in year 2000 the last time I looked. It has been more than a decade, 16 years to be exact and there have been no changes to these preamps. Perhaps there are minor revisions in the internal parts and wiring which may not be significant enough to warrant a change in model name (perhaps Naim can clarify whether there are any minor changes to the internals of the preamps after all these years).

The fact that there are no major changes to the Classic preamps after all these years suggest that the technology (of preamps) have reached a plateau and there is nothing much to improve on the circuitry to attain higher sound fidelity. If there are changes, what Naim can do, as some may have suggested, is to bridge the gap or differences between preamps, but that wouldn't make any sense on a commercial viewpoint as the higher range models shall be sonically superior than the lower range models. The power amps and PSUs have been upgraded with the DR, and I wonder what is Naim's strategy on the current line of preamps, whether the changes would more toward an improvement in sound quality or features (ie. streaming, removal of 2nd row of buttons etc.) if a revision is imminent.

Well soon see. Perhaps changes will fundamental and difficult to retro fit. Perhaps they will be minor and not worth considering by existing customers. Perhaps we've imagined the whole thing.

Keith

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

analogmusic posted:

I don't really care about any preamp refresh as I am happy with my 282 and not going to change it anything other than a 552.

I might have imagined it - but the preamps including mine were only refreshed a few years ago when their power supplies were upgraded and DR'd. Any more refreshing and you won't know where you are...this is Naim not Apple...

 

While any change wouldn't alter the fact that a 202/282/252 will sound just as good tomorrow as they do today, I disagree that DR upgrades to the power supplies equates to a preamp line refresh.

The preamps are preamps. The power supplies are power supplies.

Sloop John B posted:

GraemeH posted:

 

We all have our audio brains tuned to the waveband we personally can live with at our set price.

G

Very well put sir. 

 

SJB

Ta!

G

feeling_zen posted:

The preamps are preamps. The power supplies are power supplies.

...... I see my preamp and its power supply as one entity - each part would be pretty pointless without the other.

I think that most people on the Naim Forum are brand advocates for Naim and it is bizarre and amusing when we become indiviual product zealots - and start to denigrate other products in the range. 

feeling_zen posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

analogmusic posted:

I don't really care about any preamp refresh as I am happy with my 282 and not going to change it anything other than a 552.

I might have imagined it - but the preamps including mine were only refreshed a few years ago when their power supplies were upgraded and DR'd. Any more refreshing and you won't know where you are...this is Naim not Apple...

 

While any change wouldn't alter the fact that a 202/282/252 will sound just as good tomorrow as they do today, I disagree that DR upgrades to the power supplies equates to a preamp line refresh.

The preamps are preamps. The power supplies are power supplies.

I would agree with Simon that the preamps line got refreshed by the DR power supplies.

Anyway - I think this thread is just idle speculation, Naim had 40 years to think about radical changes in preamp design, and the basic Naim preamp is still the more or less same as the olive range (with more vibration isolation - it is there in the old connection magazines, look it up) , the more you go up the range, the more elaborate the regulated power supplies power each part of the preamp. There is more to it than just that, but still, this thread is idle  speculation.

Maybe we get a nice new 272 style volume control in the new 202/282/252 and just maybe the Nait XS bayonet mounts or 272 style floating chassis.

my 282 sounds fine to me as it is.

rjstaines posted:

nigelb posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Yes, that's true. When I wanted something better than the SU, I was thinking of Linn, but then Naim bought out the 272. It would have been a shame to leave Naim after 33 years, but I wasn't willing to accept a plethora of boxes to get a decent sound. I see no reason whatsoever that Naim cannot upscale the streaming preamp. It may not have every ounce of the performance of a NDS/252, but if it's half the price and half the size, people will buy it in droves. 

Even if the imaginary 373 were half the size, two thirds of the cost and two thirds of the SQ (?) of the 252/NDS combo, it might still be an attractive proposition, particularly to those who want to limit their spend and limit the amount of black boxes in their living room.

It's called Mu-So not 373, I believe.

Not that's funny, when I purchased my 282 and HCDR a couple of years ago now, I had to travel to Canada, closest Naim dealer! 

Anyhow, he had the Muso on display, he was pleased to be hearing my gear, he just had the Naim CD5XS, which was used to see if my 2nd hand gear was functional!  

I tried to be polite, and complemented the Muso, but it was awful, to say the least! 

If one is into CDP's, I found the CD5XS, a very smooth playing deck. But in the end I opted for a 2nd hand Cdx2, 2008 model! 

Cheer's! 

Allante93! 

Bet order your 552 while you still can.

Don't know what Naim's production capacity is, but given the lead times quoted recently for power amp DR upgrades and the extra demand stimulated by the new Power amps and Superlumina cable, it seems a stretch to think that an entire new line of preamps is imminent.

That's not to say that Naim will not continue to develop and improve upon its amplifier range as it must do to remain competitive, just that it must do so in a planned manner to ensure that it can meet any additional demand for upgrades/new units.

Just wondering, what is in the NAC S1 that needs to be trickled down? Can anyone shed some light?

Volume control is mentioned a lot but has been in use in the SU, V1 and 272. The SU and V1 were launched before the NAC S1.

Jude

Just thinking...could it be as simple as an updated NAPSC...? And nothing to do with new pre-amps...?