NAPSC vanishes from naim.com and 202 upgrade path

Posted by: feeling_zen on 20 May 2016

I noticed this while commenting on another post. But it appears the NAPSC is really gone from naim.com and all mention of this as an upgrade to the 202 have been removed. Cue wild speculation and rumor. Not very productive but we all do it.

Implications for future of the Headline and current preamp lineup?

Many have said that the current range of preamps was refreshed with the DR upgrade on the power supplies. I don't buy that for a second. I have actually for a while now put all intentions of a 252 on hold despite my dealers sweet nothings in my ear and pulled my 282 off the market some time ago deciding that it's replacement will be whatever replaces the 252. Ine 1 year or 3, such a change is sure to come.

Of course we need see if we like that product too

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by Phil Harris

Wow ... what a read!

Sorry to disappoint you all but the NAPSC is *NOT* discontinued - as far as I can tell it's just dropped off the website for some reason and I've flagged this up to the web guys to resolve.

Cheers

Phil

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by analogmusic

thanks for closing the idle speculation.

Just because a 272 exists doesn't mean a 372 is going to imminently happen and those who want to improve their 272 can add an XPS DR and then also a PS555DR.

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by Eloise

How about something more radical ... a modular Naim pre-amp?

Forget the whole 5XS ... 202 ... 282 ... 252 ... 552 hierarchy with the 172 and the 272 in there somewhere ... how about a complete new design looks something like a 272 but can have modular DAC and/or streaming added. For lower end a PSU can be included, but at some point the PSU is removed and powered purely externally. The switching and/or volume stages could equally be modular.

The new pre-amps would all become simply pre-defined steps along the path.

Unlikely ... but possible?

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by Yetizone

Nice idea Eloise!

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by nigelb

analogmusic posted:
thanks for closing the idle speculation.
Just because a 272 exists doesn't mean a 372 is going to imminently happen and those who want to improve their 272 can add an XPS DR and then also a PS555DR.

OK the NAPSC is staying. That doesn't mean nothing is happening with the ancient pre amp range nor a posher 272.

Anyway, what is wrong with idle speculation. By the busyness of this thread, people seem to find it fun.

The only problem I can see is overcoming the slight embarrassment if/when we are proved wrong.

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by ChrisSU

Phil Harris posted:
Wow ... what a read!
Sorry to disappoint you all but the NAPSC is *NOT* discontinued - as far as I can tell it's just dropped off the website for some reason and I've flagged this up to the web guys to resolve.
Cheers
Phil

...but if you'd said

'Sorry to disappoint you all but the 282 is *NOT* discontinued.....'

that would be a different matter altogether! But you didn't

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by feeling_zen

Oh I don't know about embarrassed. I did start the thread indicating it is idle speculation and agree that a web error was possible, even if I thought it far less likely than other "guessed" scenarios.

And most did find it fun.

And my gut tells me new products in the Classic range are approaching.

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by hungryhalibut

If you look at the pictures of the 252 on the website you'll see that it's actually a 552. It's been like that for absolutely ages, so 'website error' was always likely. I still think we will see a 372 and 472 by Christmas.

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by Phil Harris

*chuckle*

All I can say is I won't be changing either my 252 / SuperCap / NDX / Naim DAC / XPS or my 552 / 552PS / HDX / Naim DAC / 555PS for the foreseeable future...

The 272 is a great bit of kit - especially when you pop an XPS on it (the 'upgrade' in that case is more than subtle) and it's very easy to see how the 272 / 250 has become one of those almost defacto systems.

Phil

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by ryder.

Phil Harris posted:
*chuckle*
All I can say is I won't be changing either my 252 / SuperCap / NDX / Naim DAC / XPS or my 552 / 552PS / HDX / Naim DAC / 555PS for the foreseeable future...
The 272 is a great bit of kit - especially when you pop an XPS on it (the 'upgrade' in that case is more than subtle) and it's very easy to see how the 272 / 250 has become one of those almost defacto systems.
Phil

Hi Phil,

With your post above, are you suggesting that the 202 and 282 will be dropped from the line? Would appreciate some insight on this matter. Thanks.

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by Phil Harris

ChrisSU posted:
Phil Harris posted:
Wow ... what a read!
Sorry to disappoint you all but the NAPSC is *NOT* discontinued - as far as I can tell it's just dropped off the website for some reason and I've flagged this up to the web guys to resolve.
Cheers
Phil
...but if you'd said
'Sorry to disappoint you all but the 282 is *NOT* discontinued.....'
that would be a different matter altogether! But you didn't

OK - the 282 is not discontinued either!

Phil

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by feeling_zen

ryder. posted:
Phil Harris posted:
*chuckle*
All I can say is I won't be changing either my 252 / SuperCap / NDX / Naim DAC / XPS or my 552 / 552PS / HDX / Naim DAC / 555PS for the foreseeable future...
The 272 is a great bit of kit - especially when you pop an XPS on it (the 'upgrade' in that case is more than subtle) and it's very easy to see how the 272 / 250 has become one of those almost defacto systems.
Phil
Hi Phil,
With your post above, are you suggesting that the 202 and 282 will be dropped from the line? Would appreciate some insight on this matter. Thanks.

You must be kidding if you think Naim would confirm that.

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by Christopher_M

ryder. posted:
Phil Harris posted:
*chuckle*
All I can say is I won't be changing either my 252 / SuperCap / NDX / Naim DAC / XPS or my 552 / 552PS / HDX / Naim DAC / 555PS for the foreseeable future...
The 272 is a great bit of kit - especially when you pop an XPS on it (the 'upgrade' in that case is more than subtle) and it's very easy to see how the 272 / 250 has become one of those almost defacto systems.
Phil
Hi Phil,
With your post above, are you suggesting that the 202 and 282 will be dropped from the line? Would appreciate some insight on this matter. Thanks.

Why not just put on a few favourite records and chill.

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by Phil Harris

ryder. posted:
Hi Phil,
With your post above, are you suggesting that the 202 and 282 will be dropped from the line? Would appreciate some insight on this matter. Thanks.

No - I'm not suggesting that at all ...

The NAPSC has not been discontinued and as far as I am aware there are no plans at this time to discontinue it.

The 202 has not been discontinued and as far as I am aware there are no plans at this time to discontinue it.

The 282 has not been discontinued and as far as I am aware there are no plans at this time to discontinue it.

I hope that's as clear as it's possible to make it - remember it's you guys that are whipping yourselves up into a frenzy and extrapolating the end of the world just from the NAPSC not being visible on the website so I'm just trying to calm down the speculation.

Phil

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by ryder.

Phil Harris posted:
ryder. posted:
Hi Phil,
With your post above, are you suggesting that the 202 and 282 will be dropped from the line? Would appreciate some insight on this matter. Thanks.
No - I'm not suggesting that at all ...
The NAPSC has not been discontinued and as far as I am aware there are no plans at this time to discontinue it.
The 202 has not been discontinued and as far as I am aware there are no plans at this time to discontinue it.
The 282 has not been discontinued and as far as I am aware there are no plans at this time to discontinue it.
I hope that's as clear as it's possible to make it - remember it's you guys that are whipping yourselves up into a frenzy and extrapolating the end of the world just from the NAPSC not being visible on the website so I'm just trying to calm down the speculation.
Phil

Thanks for the response Phil. Much appreciated. I have misinterpreted your post as 202 and 282 weren't mentioned in your earlier post. It caused a bit of alarm as I have a 282 on order and planned to retain the 202 in another system.

I am in agreement with the perils of wild speculation by forum members, though it can be fun..

Cheers.

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by feeling_zen

Phil Harris posted:
ryder. posted:
Hi Phil,
With your post above, are you suggesting that the 202 and 282 will be dropped from the line? Would appreciate some insight on this matter. Thanks.
No - I'm not suggesting that at all ...
The NAPSC has not been discontinued and as far as I am aware there are no plans at this time to discontinue it.
The 202 has not been discontinued and as far as I am aware there are no plans at this time to discontinue it.
The 282 has not been discontinued and as far as I am aware there are no plans at this time to discontinue it.
I hope that's as clear as it's possible to make it - remember it's you guys that are whipping yourselves up into a frenzy and extrapolating the end of the world just from the NAPSC not being visible on the website so I'm just trying to calm down the speculation.
Phil

I stand completely corrected :-)

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by ryder.

Just out of curiosity, are there any internal updates on the Classic range of preamps (202, 282, 252) after all these years as I understand that all these preamplifiers are introduced in 2000. It has been 16 years now since these preamps are launched. Any minor revisions or updates to the wiring or circuitry after all these years? Does the current 282 share the same (exact) circuitry and wiring or parts ie. capacitors, transistors etc. as the 2000 model?

Thanks in advance.

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by hungryhalibut

'As far as I know' is a useful phrase, which only holds true until one knows something different. Let's see what the future holds.

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by analogmusic

Ryder if you have a 282 on order, why worried? it is a fantastic preamp !

The latest Naim technology is present in the 272, and well, both the 272 and the 282 have that "naim sound"

The Naim amplifiers will always have the "naim sound" it isn't like adding features to phones or televisions.

I haven't heard it, but I am 100 % certain if I had to, that I could be perfectly happy with the very first Naim amplifier the NAC 12 and the NAP 160. According to some rumors, when the freshly built NAC 52 was ready for shipping, they were compared against that very first Naim preamp, the NAC 12 in the factory to see if they sounded up to Naim standards. Not sure what Naim uses nowadays, Phil?

The core musical values i.e. "boogie factor", or Pace Rhythm and Timing, have always been the same.

What is happening throughout the years is that the noise floor is going down, and I'm not sure how much lower it can go now with the DR upgrades on the Hicap/Supercap and the DR amps. On a 272/250 the music really emerges from a totally silent, inky black background, and same with 282/HCDR/250DR.

And the 282 is a massive step up from the 202 (I have both), like Phil, won't be changing mine anytime soon, and that too, only for a 552/500 someday.

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by David Hendon

Aha the endlessly voracious fish thinks he may know something that he thinks Phil may not know!

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by analogmusic

Well it is very clear HungryHalibut wants a 372 - but not sure why, as the 272/250 sounds amazing to me.

yes the 252/300 and 552/500 are better (at their prices you expect them to be) , but 272/250 is amazing Naim system at a still sensible price.

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by ryder.

Thanks for the response Analogmusic. I am now listening to the 202/200 and the sound is just glorious. If the 282 manages to take it to a higher level, I would be a happy chappy.

I just noticed that you have both the 282/250 DR and the 202/200, and you appear to be a Dynaudio fan. I will start a new thread shortly as I will risk hijacking this thread if I ask here. With easy-to-drive speakers, I want to know if the power amp will make a difference to the 282. In other words, will there be a tangible difference between these combinations : 282/250DR, 282/250, 282/200DR and 282/200 when matched to easy speakers. Perhaps you may want to provide your feedback on a new thread that I will create shortly. Thanks.

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by Phil Harris

Hungryhalibut posted:
'As far as I know' is a useful phrase, which only holds true until one knows something different. Let's see what the future holds.

Absolutely ... I kind of have my hands tied as to what I can say regarding new product development (obviously) and I'm not privy to all the discussions that take place but creating a new product generally is two to three years of active intensive development (sometimes significantly more).

The preamps themselves haven't had any intermediate updates beyond the DR'ing of the power supplies because they just work well ... and in that respect there's no reason to replace them as a product line with something else, however, just as with the chrome bumper and olive units of the past things will eventually change at some point ...

Hopefully it can alleviate some of the fears that have been voiced here that just that right now from what I know I'm not looking at replacing any of my preamps.

Phil

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by analogmusic

The answer is easy, the 250 DR is very much superior to Nap 200, even with easy to drive speakers.

The 250DR is a regulated amp, the 200 is capacitor smoothed and unregulated.

The 250 DR has the 009 transistors used in the statement amplifier, and new DR regulators (also the statement ones). As good as your 202/200 is, the 282/250 DR takes that to another level altogether.

But still, I can enjoy 282/200 for a very long time, maybe for life, if I had to.

I would rather curb my spending elsewhere though, and buy a 250 DR

Posted on: 23 May 2016 by ryder.

analogmusic posted:
The answer is easy, the 250 DR is very much superior to Nap 200, even with easy to drive speakers.
The 250DR is a regulated amp, the 200 is capacitor smoothed and unregulated.
The 250 DR has the 009 transistors used in the statement amplifier, and new DR regulators (also the statement ones). As good as your 202/200 is, the 282/250 DR takes that to another level altogether.
But still, I can enjoy 282/200 for a very long time, maybe for life, if I had to.

Thanks for the prompt reply. Certainly useful.