Playing DSD with NDS

Hi David,

Do you really mean 'nstream', or are you using the newer Naim app? Maybe that's the problem?

I have no problem with DSD files on my NAS showing up in the Naim app.

David, what file format are your DSD files. DSF or DFF ? DSF files are easy to tag whereas there may be an issue with tagging if you have DFF files which may explain why your UPnP server (which server software are you using?) may not be sending this tag data to your streamer. The naim app will use the tag data to display the album (e.g by artist/album name etc.)

UnitiServe does not handle DSD. 

David O'Higgins posted:

I have managed to download the DSD of Honky Chateau from Acoustic Sounds. If I copy it to a USB I can play it via the USB connector on the front of the NDS. I also copied it to my NAS, but it is not showing in NSTREAM. Any advice?

 

Is it on a nas (ie Synology, QNAP, etc) or on your UnitiServe? If the later...UnitiServe does not support DSD as Mike B notes above.

Hi David,

Think we need to know what server is running on your Nas ?!

This server should be able to detect and stream the DSF or DFF files.

Peter

Bowers posted:

Hi David,

Think we need to know what server is running on your Nas ?!

This server should be able to detect and stream the DSF or DFF files.

Peter

Unfortunately, this may not be the case. Whilst Minimserver can stream DSF and DFF files in native DSD, only the beta test version of Asset can stream DSD files. The latest stable release of Asset for QNAP etc. will not do so as yet.

The current release of Asset for Windows (R5 onwards) will stream DSD but, of course, must run on a computer rather than direct on a NAS.

The file is on my NAS, but I use the unitiserve as the 'heart' of the system, to use a very non-technical term. The files are DSF. I am using the latest NAIM App. Is the unitiserve supposed to be able to 'see' DSF files on the. NAS?

I use Minimserver on my NAS and I had to download a plugin to play DSD files.  It's likely your server does not support DSD type files such as .dsf at the moment.  Whilst your NDS is able to decode it directly from a USB stick your server, it seems, cannot in its current state.

Depending on your NAS and server, you may be able to do as I have and download a plugin to enable it to play these files.

Minimserver will play it.

David O'Higgins posted:

The file is on my NAS, but I use the unitiserve as the 'heart' of the system, to use a very non-technical term. The files are DSF. I am using the latest NAIM App. Is the unitiserve supposed to be able to 'see' DSF files on the. NAS?

Nope.

I'd create a new folder for all of your DSD-formatted material (DSF, DFF, etc.) and enable the UPnP/DLNA media server plugin* on your NAS. The NAS-based media server plugin will need to be pointed at your DSD folder only.

* - Some are capable, some are not, of being able to natively serve DSD-encoded files. MinimServer / MinimStreamer is always an option.

David O'Higgins posted:

The file is on my NAS, but I use the unitiserve as the 'heart' of the system, to use a very non-technical term. The files are DSF. I am using the latest NAIM App. Is the unitiserve supposed to be able to 'see' DSF files on the. NAS?

David, your UnitiServe is your server in your system.  It does not serve DSD music files.  As others have written, your best bet is to enable the media server on your nas, and use it to serve the files if indeed it has that capability.  What brand nas??

It's a Qnap. Please bear with me, I'm still struggling to understand all this. When Naim made the. NDS capable of dealing with DSD files, did that capability not spread to the Naim apps?

It's nothing to do with the Naim app.  DSD is enabled for the ND series, but it also needs its server (NAS or Unitiserve) to also handle DSD;  the US does not.  NAS units will all handle DSD provided the media server they are operating with can also handle DSD.  With QNAP I believe the latest or maybe a beta version of Asset is OK, not sure about Twonky, Minimserver is good for DSD

David O'Higgins posted:

When Naim made the. NDS capable of dealing with DSD files, did that capability not spread to the Naim apps?

 

It's the server that needs to decode it and pass it to the streamer. The Naim app and NDS will play it just fine. Mine does.

Minimserver is what you'll want on the QNAP to handle it. You can run it alongside a US. The app and NDS will see both.

As Harry says above.

Mike, I have been learning Spanish for the last 5 years, and that's a doddle compared to the answers I have received here! (No disrespect to you). Can somebody, preferably Naim, explain what we punters should do to make this work. Why did they enable DSD without delivering a complete result? 

Anyway, Honky Chateau sounds pretty amazing in DSD, but I only went there because there was no FLAC alternative. 

David

David O'Higgins posted:

Mike, I have been learning Spanish for the last 5 years, and that's a doddle compared to the answers I have received here! (No disrespect to you). Can somebody, preferably Naim, explain what we punters should do to make this work. Why did they enable DSD without delivering a complete result? 

Anyway, Honky Chateau sounds pretty amazing in DSD, but I only went there because there was no FLAC alternative. 

David

David, Naim are not going to tell you how to install MinimServer on your QNAP nas I suspect.  But plenty of us here run MinimServer and have installed it on a QNAP nas.  I would start with the MinimServer website -- they do have installation instructions there. And you have to go there to get the download in any event.

If those start at too detailed a level for you, someone here surely will help out.  If I lived closer I'd offer to come over and let you watch me do it for you; I understand very well that some of this stuff is intimidating and obtuse at first!!

Yes, Naim players are now capable of playing DSD files.  I suspect that Naim has not offered an update to the UnitiServe server to enable it to serve DSD files for technical reasons.  But there is no requirement to use a Naim server with a Naim player, and this is but one example where you can get more features with a non-Naim server.

David, presumably you have your unitiserve connected direct to your NDS streamer via an ethernet cable. Correct?

If so, once you have minimserver set up on your QNAP to serve your DSD files, it too will need to have a connection to your NDS streamer i.e. not simply connected direct to your unitiserve. The simplest way of doing this is to install a network switch (say a netgear GS105) between your unitiserve and your NDS and then connect the QNAP to this switch via ethernet cable. Having done this your naim app will display 2 server icons i.e. the US server icon and the icon for the minimserver UPnP server you have set up on your QNAP.

Initially you will need to toggle between the 2 different servers to play your DSD files and other files but once you are comfortable with streaming from your QNAP using minimserver you may find it easier to stream all your files that way.

David O'Higgins posted:

Mike, I have been learning Spanish for the last 5 years, and that's a doddle compared to the answers I have received here! (No disrespect to you). Can somebody, preferably Naim, explain what we punters should do to make this work. Why did they enable DSD without delivering a complete result? 

Anyway, Honky Chateau sounds pretty amazing in DSD, but I only went there because there was no FLAC alternative. 

David

I sympathise David,  I have a friend with US & he has similar issues.   Naim have delivered DSD to all the systems that have the ability to process it,  the various player/renderer's,  NDS in your case, DAC etc.     The only thing that they could not do is enable DSD in US & HDS as they do not have whatever is required in the OS to do whatever is required.   The "Naim app" for NAS type servers doesn't care what it handles.  All (most) NAS units can handle DSD but do need a DSD compatible media server to do so.

Strange about Honky Chateau only in DSD,  I have an old CD rip,  its a nice album, I will download the DSD tomorrow & listen to what all the fuss is about .........  

sjbabbey posted:

David, presumably you have your unitiserve connected direct to your NDS streamer via an ethernet cable. Correct?

If so, once you have minimserver set up on your QNAP to serve your DSD files, it too will need to have a connection to your NDS streamer i.e. not simply connected direct to your unitiserve. The simplest way of doing this is to install a network switch (say a netgear GS105) between your unitiserve and your NDS and then connect the QNAP to this switch via ethernet cable. Having done this your naim app will display 2 server icons i.e. the US server icon and the icon for the minimserver UPnP server you have set up on your QNAP.

Initially you will need to toggle between the 2 different servers to play your DSD files and other files but once you are comfortable with streaming from your QNAP using minimserver you may find it easier to stream all your files that way.

I don't think you can connect a UnitiServe directly to an NDS with an ethernet cable.  I'll stand corrected if need be of course.

Hi Bart, you may well be right. I read the specs for the US as having Ethernet Audio output to mean that it could stream audio via this connection in addition to its S/PDIF connection and the OP's reference to nstream/naim app rather than nserve also suggested this. However, I do not own a US so my apologies to the OP if I have given him inaccurate advice.

Actually you can if you really had to.. You would  need  a swap-over Ethernet cable (There are two types, standard pass through and  swap-over) . However in such a set up you would have no internet access and you would need to set up the IP addressing yourself and control the NDS directly as opposed to using the Naim app. 

Thanks for the clarification, Simon. Assuming that David has already has an Ethernet cable running between his NAS and the US to allow the US to serve music files on the NAS to his NDS, I still think it would be an idea to add a switch to allow playback of his DSD content direct from the NAS using Minimserver. Not sure whether this would require toggling between the naim app and nserve though.

I suspect that a tidier solution is eventually to remove the US from the equation and stream all files direct from his NAS drive as Naim have shown no indication that the US will or can be upgraded to handle DSD files. However this may a step too far for OP. 

Or, don't worry about it and just play your DSD files from the USB input. 

If later you decide to build a bigger DSD catalog, you can always look to stream from your NAS solely as mentioned above.

just enjoy the music!

Bart posted:

David, Naim are not going to tell you how to install MinimServer on your QNAP nas I suspect.  But plenty of us here run MinimServer and have installed it on a QNAP nas.  I would start with the MinimServer website -- they do have installation instructions there. And you have to go there to get the download in any event.

As far as I know, Minimserver is now in the QNAP App Centre, so installing it is just a matter of clicking it in a list on the QNAP's control panel page, then choosing to install it