NDS based system vs ....

Yes they will all sound different. Do the demo and let us know what you decided.

As Gary says but .the NDS/NDX/282 provide significantly better performance than that collectively provided by the 272.........

That looks like a hell of a lot of box swapping!

i hope you get to listen to each configuration for at least an hour. Might be an idea to make it 2 sessions so all boxes can be powered up and hence warmed up.

Very much looking forward to what you think.

Looking forward to it myself. I wonder if I should do it in one go otherwise I take the risk of not properly remembering the different systems.

Chris - Forming a conclusion from a variety of alternatives is always tricky.  Taking a notebook and pen helps 

just a thought - there's quite a bit of good natured debate between the 282 and 272 camps at the moment. Both offer excellent solutions  regardless of the merits of each based on sound alone it's worth considering your end game.  If this is your final purchase a 272 based system must be a really good idea as might a SN2.  But if in the medium longer term you're seeking audio nirvana then you might consider Option 4 as your best way forward as there is more scope for upgrade 

Good luck,

Lindsay

Yes, you raise a good point there Chris. It's not easy. Mind you it's fun. 

Well, if you can book 1 long day, have breaks in between each config and enjoy the day. Take your own material if possible, your favourite test tracks, etc and sit back and listen. Enjoy 

Option 2 I reckon. I'd miss out the power supply for now though until you can get the money together for a better one. The reason I say this option is you would then effectively have a power amp you won't feel the need to upgrade.

I put a powerline on my 300dr. Made a real difference. 

I bought option 3 as its basically fit and forget and I have no intention of getting anything better. But if I wanted to subsequently upgrade the amps to 552/300 I'd have gone with your option 1, though I wouldn't feel happy using an NDS with anything other than a 555PS. 

HH - that's a good point we rarely hear of the NDS being paired with the XPS.

I would go for

NDS/XPSDR/282/200DR

Has anyone ever listened to an NDS with an XP5 XS? 

analogmusic posted:

I would go for

NDS/XPSDR/282/200DR

Is it NDS or NDX? 

......the song remains the same.......

I would recommend you buy the best pre - power combo that funds allow, these will still sound good in 10 - 15 years time. Get a good modern DAC but don't go over £3k as DAC technology won't last those self same 10-15 years. But even more so the streamer technology will  quickly become yesterday's papers. 

There are so many options to stream to a system sucd as -  DAC/ 282/HC/300 that can be upgraded like a PC, Mac Mini, or more bespoke options from Auralic and Melco, or even good old Squeezebox. 

Most of these options will also give you access to Roon, which is by far the best interface out there (IMHO). 

When Naim decided to make a "statement" they mad a pre - power combo, not a streamer, think about it. 

SJB

Chrissw19 posted:

Has anyone ever listened to an NDS with an XP5 XS? 

I had mine second hand from somebody using this combo - he was never satisfied reason of his sale- i think a NDS is just a shadow of itself with such a "poor" power supply. I first started with XPS-DR not too bad but not that great - then 555-DR really good but once you go with the 2 burndies, then really you realise what is a NDS.

I would recommend a demo for the last two options (but with 250DR): As was said before, the NDX allows to link an external DAC into the system later on, which can bring you to and above NDS level at a lower cost, whilst the 272 (sadly) doesn't allow linking an external DAC between its streamer and preamp sections. However, if you're happy with the 272 longer-term, then you get a more modern (though somewhat minimalist) preamp than the ageing 282 and a streamer on NDX-level thrown-in. And if you're not, you can still swap the 272 against an NDX later on, and buy from naim's upcoming new preamp range (here is hoping!). All in all, I'd recommend your option 3 with 272/XPS DR at this point.

S.

I think this is a very academic exercise.... NDS really needs a 555PS.

I would start with: NDX, 282, 250 + some sort of PS on 282. Expnd from there, perhaps with an XPS on NDX.

Adam, have you actually listened to the NDS / XP5 combo? There is a previous post from Frank Abela that rates this combo above any of the NDX or 272 PSU combo but the various firmware updates might have changed things.

No - I haven't. 

Best thing is to listen for yourself.

Please be careful though with one thing - if you go for an NDS without the burndies, you will need to get an SXPS burndy. Should you decide to upgrade your power supply to 555PS at some stage it will be very difficult to get the NDS-555PS burndy cables. My dealer told me they are normally not being sold, as they form part of a package with an NDS. He could be wrong of course....

Another thing - do not underestimate the importance of a pre-amp in the equation. SN2 is a good integrated amp. But it's outclassed by 282...

NDS/555ps and a used nait5i or new nait5si. Not heard them together myself but would be an interesting comparison with a more balanced system and really put the source first principal to the test.

Are you welded to buying new?  If you're  time-rich you could assemble System 4 with a 2nd hand Supercap and a s/h-DR 300.  You might even fit a 252 in to your budget

You can sell any unwanted  kit via an auction site, without much or any loss in value.

As funds arrive you could upgrade the 300 to  DR spec.

yeti42 posted:

NDS/555ps and a used nait5i or new nait5si. Not heard them together myself but would be an interesting comparison with a more balanced system and really put the source first principal to the test.

With a Nait XS we immediately heard the improvement from Dac/XPS2 to NDS/555.  My view is that a lesser source is never "better."  Others (who have heard far more hi fi than I have) may disagree (?).

Chrissw19 posted:

Morning to all the golden ears ..... I have been playing at configuring an NDS based system I might be able to afford .... however, before I ask the dealer to organise a demo, will there be a significant difference in term of SQ/details  ... for the following systems based on a different streamer but with very similar budget (assuming all kit is new at list price)? I do not plan to get a turntable (but I might connect my Nat 05) or replacing my Harbeth P3 and I also do not listen loud, never over 60 db.

NDS/ XP5 XS/ SN2 with 2 powerline - 13.2k

N-272/ XP5 XS/ NAP300 with only 1 powerline - 13.2k

N-272/ XPS DR/ NAP250 with 2 powerline and SL IC - 13.3k

NDX/ NAC 282 NAPSC / HC DR / NAP250 with only 1 powerline  - 13.4k

 

Thanks!

While I love the NDS the first system looks to be completely out of balance. I guess the 3rd system wins, but let us know the outcome.

Noogle posted:

Are you welded to buying new?  If you're  time-rich you could assemble System 4 with a 2nd hand Supercap and a s/h-DR 300.  You might even fit a 252 in to your budget

You can sell any unwanted  kit via an auction site, without much or any loss in value.

As funds arrive you could upgrade the 300 to  DR spec.

Yes, looking at the auction site prices, system 4 will offer a lot of opportunities and probably good VFM. There seems to be quite a good demand for SN2 and not a lot of NDS advertised so System 1 will probably not offer the same VFM there.

Chrissw19 posted:

Yes, looking at the auction site prices, system 4 will offer a lot of opportunities and probably good VFM. There seems to be quite a good demand for SN2 and not a lot of NDS advertised so System 1 will probably not offer the same VFM there.

That is to be expected. SN2 sells quite well. NDS on the other hand, given its nature and price, is not that wide-spread.
Purchasing an SN2 - we end up with an amp which can be sold quite easily on a secondary market.

If that's an original HL-P3, it's getting rather long in the tooth and all this expenditure may be held back by that. I would definitely take those speakers in with you for the demo, because it is unlikely the dealer will have anything similar. Even the P3ESR is quite different (same sonic fundament but completely different musical expression).

Of the 4 choices you suggested I would discount the 272-based ones. For around £13k I think you'd be in a better place with either the NDX/XPS or NDS/XP5XS into 282/200. However, your dealer may find at the time of the demo that the P3s really have had their day and he may offer a completely different solution using alternative speakers. This would mean less on the electronics of course, but probably a more cogent result. It might even end up being a simple 272/250 or NDX/Supernait into better speakers, just can't tell at this point.

Of course, it also rather depends on the size of your room. What are we talking about here? You may listen quietly but a speaker still needs to couple to a large room.  

Regards,
Frank.