Matching of NAC282 with 250DR, 200DR and 200

When I got notification from my dealer my 250 DR was ready for collection, I was wondering if I needed to have bought one, the 282/200 sounds very good already

Then I plugged in the 250 DR, and it was truly one of these "wow" moments. All my doubts went away in about 3 seconds.

Noise floor is much lower, bigger soundstage, much more muscular bass, grip on the speakers, transients, midrange vocals, the music sounds more coherent, more musical, more relaxed, and more exciting at the same time, everything takes a leap forward..... more refined high frequencies really, the 272/250DR and the 282/250DR are a good slice/taste of the much more expensive 252/300 and 552/500....

As I mentioned to you, the new DR amps have that 009 transistor, music just flows effortlessly, and as enjoyable as the NAP 200 is, the 250 DR is even more enjoyable, more refined, more musical, and everything that you like about the 200 takes a leap forward with the 250 DR.

Naim's regulated amps starting from 250, to me are more refined and musical than the unregulated ones.

They have more resolution than the unregulated amps, on both frequency extremes and the midrange is also much clearer on the regulated amps.

Anyway that is what I have heard and experienced, all my humble opinion,  maybe other forum members can also share their experiences.

Remember that you can only use the 250 with a 282 provided there is the addition of a power supply between them. So really this is a question of the power supplies too. The 200's internal power supply that feeds the preamp is of the order of a flatcap. The 200 with the DR upgrade is a bit better than that because the DR in the new 200 is specifically for the preamp power supply section. This is a veyr welcome improvement over the 200. It obviously drains energy from the power amp itself but for the purposes of the argument, the next step from a 282/200 is a 282/hicap/200. The hicap brings a significant improvement in performance again; it's a double whammy in that the power amp is now left to just power the speakers and the 282 is fed by a significantly better power supply.

Swapping the 200 for the 250DR is yet another step up. The 250DR brings about tremendous grip and control while giving much better scale and depth to the proceedings. I prefer it in every way over the 200 which is already a great power amp. As for voicing, I think there used to be more difference before the DR came along. The older 250.2 was a great amp, but it did have a tendency to a darker heavier sound against the 200's lighter, fleeter footed presentation. The latest 250DR retains some of the 250.2's bombastic character, but has lost that heavier feel so it's just as fleet-footed as the 200 if not more so, and at the same time can cope with rather more difficult speakers to drive.

AM I think you meant 'They have more resolution than the unregulated amps'

Regards,
Frank.

yes corrected  now. Thanks 

I went for 282/200DR precisely because I wanted to keep the box count low. Of course a 250 is better, but by the time you've added a Hicap and another shelf that's another 3 grand.

Frank Abela posted:

Remember that you can only use the 250 with a 282 provided there is the addition of a power supply between them. So really this is a question of the power supplies too. The 200's internal power supply that feeds the preamp is of the order of a flatcap. The 200 with the DR upgrade is a bit better than that because the DR in the new 200 is specifically for the preamp power supply section. This is a veyr welcome improvement over the 200. It obviously drains energy from the power amp itself but for the purposes of the argument, the next step from a 282/200 is a 282/hicap/200. The hicap brings a significant improvement in performance again; it's a double whammy in that the power amp is now left to just power the speakers and the 282 is fed by a significantly better power supply.

Swapping the 200 for the 250DR is yet another step up. The 250DR brings about tremendous grip and control while giving much better scale and depth to the proceedings. I prefer it in every way over the 200 which is already a great power amp. As for voicing, I think there used to be more difference before the DR came along. The older 250.2 was a great amp, but it did have a tendency to a darker heavier sound against the 200's lighter, fleeter footed presentation. The latest 250DR retains some of the 250.2's bombastic character, but has lost that heavier feel so it's just as fleet-footed as the 200 if not more so, and at the same time can cope with rather more difficult speakers to drive.

AM I think you meant 'They have more resolution than the unregulated amps'

Regards,
Frank.

Ryder

agree totally with Frank - I currently have 282/HCDR/200 - but long term plan to move to the 250DR

had a recent demo the 250DR which is a great upgrade but I would look at HC for 282 first, to get the most out of 282

my speakers are really easy to drive (Spendor S6e's ) so 200 can deliver for my system

again as ever ask dealer to demo if possible and try the combinations to see which one works the best in your space

Historically the 250 was not the default partner for a 282. The 250 used to occupy the slot on Naim's power amp hierarchical that the 500 currently does (flagship stereo poweramp). Prior to the current classics a 250 would go with a 52 unless the user went for 135s. An 82 with a 180 and the HC as an optional icing on the cake. I saw a lot of customers leave with a 82/180 combo. A few with a HC in tow. Never with a 250.

To that end I think a 282/200 is as good a fit as a 282/HC/250.  The combo just makes a different level of amp, not necessarily less suited. 

The 180 is very similar to the current 200. Which is odd because the 250.2 is as much of a different beast to the Olive 250 as the 250dr is said to be to the 250.2.

RE the OP, the 200 gets overlooked too often. It is a star performer and while it won't grip really difficult speakers as a 250 (any version) it can and does drive hard loads without a problem. The thing is, the definition of a hard load is a variable scale. There are speakers that every Naim power amp short of Statement will struggle with. The real issue is clarity. Regardless of whether the speakers are as light as a feather with 95db 8Ohm nominal loading a 250 will still sound clearer just because it is better. So if you can afford one, go for it. 

I agree with Frank, and the vast majority of the Forum. The 250 DR is the ticket! 

Presently I'm Tri-Amping 250.2's which renders a rich thick sound compared to LK 280's.

From what I hear, the DR Amp technologies results in a leaner sound coupled with a lower noise floor!

Some even suggest better imaging, which may be Naims intent, moving towards the round earth camp!

To quote a member:

The (282/SCDR/250DR ) is good as it gets until one enters 552/500 Territory!

Of course, he resides in 552/500 Territory, I tend to agree.

 But I reside in 282/250 territory!

Out!

Allante93!

Indeed the 200 is still a star performer, and the pair of 282/200 is very fine indeed, very musical and dynamic, one can live at 282/200 level and improve source, interconnect, super lumina speaker cables, power lines.

I can't bring myself to sell my 200 so I just kept it for another room 

Thanks for the feedback folks. From all responses, it appears that the NAP250DR will be a significant improvement from the NAP200 either in its DR or non-DR guises irrespective of whether the speakers shall be an easy or difficult load.

Is there by any chance a Harbeth SHL5 user has upgraded the 200 to the 250 DR?

antony d posted:

Ryder

agree totally with Frank - I currently have 282/HCDR/200 - but long term plan to move to the 250DR

had a recent demo the 250DR which is a great upgrade but I would look at HC for 282 first, to get the most out of 282

my speakers are really easy to drive (Spendor S6e's ) so 200 can deliver for my system

again as ever ask dealer to demo if possible and try the combinations to see which one works the best in your space

 

All the talk about the new 009 transistor technology in the 250DR that is trickled down from the Statement series seems to be pivotal. The 200 DR does not have the 009 transistors, hence the 250DR may be seen as the best bang for the buck in the power amp range to have this new trickled-down technology. Or perhaps the 282/250DR is the best bang for the buck in the Naim range, as some so often say.

Frank Abela posted:

Remember that you can only use the 250 with a 282 provided there is the addition of a power supply between them. So really this is a question of the power supplies too. The 200's internal power supply that feeds the preamp is of the order of a flatcap. The 200 with the DR upgrade is a bit better than that because the DR in the new 200 is specifically for the preamp power supply section. This is a veyr welcome improvement over the 200. It obviously drains energy from the power amp itself but for the purposes of the argument, the next step from a 282/200 is a 282/hicap/200. The hicap brings a significant improvement in performance again; it's a double whammy in that the power amp is now left to just power the speakers and the 282 is fed by a significantly better power supply.

Swapping the 200 for the 250DR is yet another step up. The 250DR brings about tremendous grip and control while giving much better scale and depth to the proceedings. I prefer it in every way over the 200 which is already a great power amp. As for voicing, I think there used to be more difference before the DR came along. The older 250.2 was a great amp, but it did have a tendency to a darker heavier sound against the 200's lighter, fleeter footed presentation. The latest 250DR retains some of the 250.2's bombastic character, but has lost that heavier feel so it's just as fleet-footed as the 200 if not more so, and at the same time can cope with rather more difficult speakers to drive.

AM I think you meant 'They have more resolution than the unregulated amps'

Regards,
Frank.

Hi Frank,

Apologies for this. Would appreciate if you can confirm that your remark above in bold applies to easy-to-drive speakers as well.

It clearly does. In my own experience with SL2s, which are easy to drive, a bigger power amp makes all the difference in grip, control and drive. A bigger amp literally makes the speakers sound bigger. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

It clearly does. In my own experience with SL2s, which are easy to drive, a bigger power amp makes all the difference in grip, control and drive. A bigger amp literally makes the speakers sound bigger. 

Thanks. That's it, looks like the unplanned purchase of a new NAP250 DR is imminent.

Maybe I should stop visiting forums so that I could put a stop to all this upgrading frenzy. But thinking back, I won't be able to enjoy  higher levels of sound fidelity if I didn't perform the upgrade.

Bye.

Hungryhalibut posted:

It clearly does. In my own experience with SL2s, which are easy to drive, a bigger power amp makes all the difference in grip, control and drive. A bigger amp literally makes the speakers sound bigger. 

This is so incredibly true.

One of the most interesting experiments I did for a laugh was over 20 years ago. I hooked up this puny pair of Mission 731s (small bookshelf speaker going for GBP130 in 1995) to a 250.

I'd sold so many pairs of 731s on the end of amps like a NAD3020 or Arcam Alpha 5 so I thought I knew exactly what they were about. But after the first 3 seconds on a 250 you could be forgiven for thinking you were hearing a fairly expensive pair of floorstanders.

While speakers have character of their own, it gets pushed to the background by a decent amp that is able to impose its will and in this case the 250 imposed its will absolutely on these cheap and cheerful boxes.

ryder. posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

It clearly does. In my own experience with SL2s, which are easy to drive, a bigger power amp makes all the difference in grip, control and drive. A bigger amp literally makes the speakers sound bigger. 

Thanks. That's it, looks like the unplanned purchase of a new NAP250 DR is imminent.

Maybe I should stop visiting forums so that I could put a stop to all this upgrading frenzy. But thinking back, I won't be able to enjoy  higher levels of sound fidelity if I didn't perform the upgrade.

Bye.

That's the spirit! 

Just to throw a curve-ball.... Once you get 250DR do NOT upgrade your speakers.
'Work' on your sources first. You will be surprised.....

The 282 really sounds much better with a 250 DR 

feeling_zen posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

It clearly does. In my own experience with SL2s, which are easy to drive, a bigger power amp makes all the difference in grip, control and drive. A bigger amp literally makes the speakers sound bigger. 

This is so incredibly true.

One of the most interesting experiments I did for a laugh was over 20 years ago. I hooked up this puny pair of Mission 731s (small bookshelf speaker going for GBP130 in 1995) to a 250.

I'd sold so many pairs of 731s on the end of amps like a NAD3020 or Arcam Alpha 5 so I thought I knew exactly what they were about. But after the first 3 seconds on a 250 you could be forgiven for thinking you were hearing a fairly expensive pair of floorstanders.

While speakers have character of their own, it gets pushed to the background by a decent amp that is able to impose its will and in this case the 250 imposed its will absolutely on these cheap and cheerful boxes.

Last year I listened to my little Kudos X2s with a 200, a 250 and a 300. In each case, and especially with the 300, the ability of the amp to take the speakers by the scruff of the neck and control them was very evident. The 300 was crossed off the shopping list, not because it didn't match the speakers, but because it was too good for the source/pre, and would have resulted in an upgrade spiral I wanted to avoid.

ChrisSU posted:

and would have resulted in an upgrade spiral I wanted to avoid.

Go on, sell that kidney..... it's worth it....

ChrisSU posted:

Last year I listened to my little Kudos X2s with a 200, a 250 and a 300. In each case, and especially with the 300, the ability of the amp to take the speakers by the scruff of the neck and control them was very evident. The 300 was crossed off the shopping list, not because it didn't match the speakers, but because it was too good for the source/pre, and would have resulted in an upgrade spiral I wanted to avoid.

Ahh KEF Kudos, that was the other one I could not for the life of me remember. The little Kudos around the same time (also around the same cost as the 731s), despite the fact they cost nothing, worked amazingly well on the end of a Nait3 or 92/90. There are so many unlikely but magic combinations like that. I currently run a UQ2 into QAcoustics 2010i which the same sort of apparent mismatch but it works brilliantly.

I would agree the OP has less to worry about regarding the current speakers.

The 282 will actually match with everything from NAP 100 > 300 - depends on the demands of your speakers - I stop short of the 500.  You could say the 250DR has become the default.  In my view, and I make no apologies being evangelical on this, the 282 is a paradigm shift over the 202 - which is a fine pre-amp in itself - and a landmark performer.   Equally the new 250DR has become similar  - in my opinion etc.

Regards,

Lindsay 

ryder. posted:

Frank Abela posted:

...The 250DR brings about tremendous grip and control while giving much better scale and depth to the proceedings. I prefer it in every way over the 200 which is already a great power amp...

Hi Frank,

Apologies for this. Would appreciate if you can confirm that your remark above in bold applies to easy-to-drive speakers as well.

Yes it does. It's not a question of ease of drive. It's a question of amplifier scope. The 250DR is simply on another plane. I always preferred the 250.2 as well, but that was for different reasons, and could appreciate why some might prefer the older 200 to the 250.2, but with the 250DR I really can't see it at all. The difference is greater than it was and fully justifies the price differential.

The 200 remains a great amp and offers a Naim 2-box solution which is very competitive at its price provided you are a bit careful with partnering speakers. 

Regards,
Frank.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

The 282 will actually match with everything from NAP 100 > 300 - depends on the demands of your speakers - I stop short of the 500.  You could say the 250DR has become the default.  In my view, and I make no apologies being evangelical on this, the 282 is a paradigm shift over the 202 - which is a fine pre-amp in itself - and a landmark performer.   Equally the new 250DR has become similar  - in my opinion etc.

Regards,

Lindsay 

Agreed. A 282 with a SupercapDR is easily good enough for a 300DR.  A very flexible and capable pre-amp is the 282.

Mike

analogmusic posted:

Indeed the 200 is still a star performer, and the pair of 282/200 is very fine indeed, very musical and dynamic, one can live at 282/200 level and improve source, interconnect, super lumina speaker cables, power lines.

I can't bring myself to sell my 200 so I just kept it for another room 

I did the same when upgraded to 250dr, I keep the 200 for a 3rd kit.

I have the nac 282/nap 250 dr combo. It drives my Dynaudio Focus 160 fantastically well and sounds very musical. However, the same cannot be said when I paired with with my Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor.  It just sounds  bland. I think this combination is really speaker dependent.

Any bros with the same findings?