For those of us who cannot attain Statement...

Well, this is an expensive hobby, and can be very costly if one is not in control. When I jumped in two years ago, I knew what was awaiting me.

Therefore, I had an end game, not the best, but something I could live with! Just Think two years ago, an Individual who had a Naim Active set up with the 500 series was king of the hill !!!!!!

Now That individual needs the SL full loom, and the Dred Amps, only to be second to the S1 Pre Amp. Sometimes I think it is wise to view oneself from the outside!  Check out this outside view of Naimee''s like myself and you! 

Off HIFI Critic:

""Theses days, perhaps as a result of, IMO, Naim's move to a more mainstream hi-fi sound (some have called it 'middle earth', i.e. half way between 'Flat', and 'Round' ), that there seems to be increasing numbers of 'audiophiles' with Naim equipment, and as they are inclined to do (no offence intended), are much more likely to fiddle, constantly seeking the next upgrade etc., and perhaps as a result of the potentially unwieldy nature of NACA5, as well as the 'relatively' low price ('it can't possibly be any good, compared to the 'mega-buck' stuff'), NACA5 is a common target for their attention. While I don't doubt that, in hi-fi terms, it may be possible to better it, I suspect that genuine musical improvement might prove more difficult to come by, but that's just a guess; certainly, for all the reasons mentioned above, I'm not inclined to go searching. After-all, Naim have been quite happy to charge quite high prices (I would say, at least) for their modern range of 'fancy' interconnects and mains cable, so they could easily have come out with 'NACA6', and bumped the price up, so when they say that, despite many attempts, they haven't come up with anything better than 'humble' NACA5 (yet, it may still happen, of course), I'm inclined to believe them.""

YeP, That's what we do, spend thousands of dollars for subtle changes that the Norm can't detect, quiet as its keep most audiophiles can't detect!

But then again we aren't the Norm!

So That gap you talking about will never be filled, just enjoy you music ( the why ), and forget about the how! 

I know it's hard, I'm hooked to! 

Next upgrade: SCDR, and Snaxo 362!  

End game Naim Active:  Cdx2 > XPS2 DR > 282 > HCDR > SCDR > 3 x 250.2's > Briks

Allante93! 

Thanks for your reply Allante. I think you may have misunderstood the basis of my post. I am not looking for "subtle changes that the Norm can't detect".. I am looking for substantial changes that can be easily appreciated by the Norm!

We certainly know that Naim can design and manufacture this category of electronics- Statement has proven that.  What I am looking for is a level of boxes that sits above the 500 series at a cost of 5 decimal points rather than 6 . Can this be done? That is my question !

I think you are well underway to reach your end game- active Briks should put a big smile on your face  !

I still use Naca5 btw....

ATB,

Mark

Let me try again, now in the USA the 500 pre amp combo is running about 70K, and this statement trickled down technologies is to subtle for you!

Now the Statement is running 3 x 90 about 270K!

And this is an substantial gain in SQ, albeit at a substantial cost!

So you're looking for the golden extreme, a combo  just shy of a 100K, with a substantial gain in SQ?

Am I on the right track now! Mark?

The Statement pre is the next step at a little over double the 552 it fits on top of the series with no significant gap. I can't afford one either.

yeti42 posted:

The Statement pre is the next step at a little over double the 552 it fits on top of the series with no significant gap. I can't afford one either.

In the USA, MSRP of 552 is 35K, and the 500 just shy of 34K, that's 70K.

The S1 Pre is 90K alone!

Hence, the Statement is running over a quarter million! 

Very few can afford that, however the trickled down technologies are selling like hotcakes!

Two months waiting list in some cases!

However, if I understand the OP correctly, the SQ is not up to par, and would like a 600 series retailing @ 100K for an 652 Pre and 600 Amp.

Is that correct Mark?

There you go Allante! A 600  pre/power for $99,999- is this too much to ask for?

varyat posted:

There you go Allante! A 600  pre/power for $99,999- is this too much to ask for?

Posted by Mark:

""What I am looking for is a level of boxes that sits above the 500 series at a cost of 5 decimal points rather than 6 . Can this be done? That is my question ! ""

I'm no expert, but that's a tall task, but it would be nice!

But let's look at the situation from Naim's perspective. The fortunate 1%, if they choose can pick up an Statement Yesterday, but that doesn't put the company in the Black!

But, a two months waiting list for an DR upgrade, and Individuals acquiring the SL Full Loom with 272's 5K digital Pre! 

Trust me, everything is going according to plan!

Allante93!

Take a mindful listen to what's out there beyond the loop ?

interesting that 500 series owners still want to upgrade.

I am planning to either call it quits from upgrades at 282/SC/250 DR level and maybe someday (not in any rush at all and not sad at all if it never happens) at 552DR/500Dr level. And then there is the Chord Dave to look forward to, and Dynaudio new Contour range (with the Esotar 2 tweeter), as well as the Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers.

On the other hand I recently tried my DAC V1 with a Nap 100 and thought - oh well that combo does sound very true "naim" to me.... Did I really need more than this? I'm not sure at all I did (this is after hearing 500 series many many times and owning Chord Hugo etc etc etc)

Maybe sometimes we need to took a deep breath and enjoy what we already have.

analogmusic posted:

interesting that 500 series owners still want to upgrade.

As a trickle-down recipient, I'm more than happy that they do .

TOBYJUG posted:

Take a mindful listen to what's out there beyond the loop ?

Are you suggesting the Earth might be round?  

While the now seemingly inadequate 500 series is all there is bar the Statement, there seem to be a few options: put up with the 500 series, get the Statement, or buy something else altogether. Perhaps a change of mindset to being really pleased by how good the current stuff is, rather than how it could be improved, is the best way forward. Things don't always have to be better. 

Never heard the statement amps and not planning to.

I did go to an Absolute Sounds/Guildford Audio show, I'd say that was beyond the loop. I didn't hear anything I couldn't easily forget, including the Airforce 2.

analogmusic posted:

interesting that 500 series owners still want to upgrade... Maybe sometimes we need to took a deep breath and enjoy what we already have.

I'm a 500 series owner who doesn't want to upgrade my Naim "Bits", barring DR upgrades to my amps (they're due a service by now so might as well). I admire the Statement units but not enough to want to invest in them. I'll tinker around the edges but I think I've reached a point where I'd rather spend my money elsewhere than on hi-fi.

I wonder how good a DR upgraded 500 sounds compared to a brand new unit fresh from the factory ?  Is the 2 months waiting list mentioned above relating to a DR upgrade or a new unit ?  I too am one of those that will consider a 600 series upgrade but am unwilling to invest in Statement simply because the cost (to me) does not justify the increase in performance.  I reckon the 600 series will not be long, once revenue from the DR upgrades start to dry up.

I hope Naim keep the status quo. As a 500/552 owner, I have reached my target over 15 years. The Statement is so far off in terms of finance and conscience that the gap will never be bridged. So please, no 600 series.

Dave

Manufacturers like Naim have a policy of continuous improvement (or in some cases continuous change regardless of whether it is improvement, whether just cosmetic or trying to provide similar quality at lower cost). However there inevitably is a law of diminishing returns, both in terms of money expended by the punter and opportunities for real improvement after decades of refining, barring the occasional technological breakthrough such as a new  transistor design. Once products are very, very good, sound quality improvements tend to be very small, and possibly very expensive. The consumer simply has to decide at what level they wish to be, and/or what investment they wish to make, stop there and do nothing thereafter but listen to the music, unless something breaks, or a windfall provides unexpected funds to have fun with.

Meanwhile the manufacturer, wanting to generate more sales, will keep offering some new feature or other to tempt people to change...

I would suggest that for anyone wanting to keep progressing their system, the diminishing return on amps is probably not something to worry about: much more money can be spent on speakers, and always to significant audible effect.

Bodger posted:

I hope Naim keep the status quo. As a 500/552 owner, I have reached my target over 15 years. The Statement is so far off in terms of finance and conscience that the gap will never be bridged. So please, no 600 series.

Dave

 

upgrading from 500 to 500 DR  costs 5000 GBP almost, that is your 600 series right there

and 552 to 552 DR is another couple of thousand too.

Go and listen to a Unitiqute/Neat Iotas ad then listen to the equipment the majority listen to their music on.  It's all good - I keep saying that!

Hungryhalibut posted:

While the now seemingly inadequate 500 series is all there is bar the Statement, there seem to be a few options: put up with the 500 series, get the Statement, or buy something else altogether. Perhaps a change of mindset to being really pleased by how good the current stuff is, rather than how it could be improved, is the best way forward. Things don't always have to be better. 

""Our dilemma is that we hate change and love it at the same time; what we really want is for things to remain the same but get better.

Sydney J. Harris""

The nature of Humans!

Allante93!

Innocent Bystander posted:

 

I would suggest that for anyone wanting to keep progressing their system, the diminishing return on amps is probably not something to worry about: much more money can be spent on speakers, and always to significant audible effect.

Indeed.  But of course as soon you upgrade speakers you start to contemplate how you might optimise their performance with better electronics!

varyat posted:

what is needed to keep 500 series owners in the loop. What think you?...

 

Electricity. That's all it takes to make a 500 series system sing like a choir of angles.  

If one wants a Statement one should have one. If one can't afford it, don't blame it on the next best amp(s) in the world which are fantastic and peerless at their respective price points.

Thanks for all the comments. I am very happy with my current kit, but can't help but think there must be a middle ground in Naim's future amplification between the 500 and Statement. Other than those running active with Naim speakers, there is a need for a more powerful amplifier imo. New speaker designs and the more commonplace dedicated listening room have provided many speaker opportunities that demand more than the 140 watts per channel available from a 500.. Naim is breaking into new international markets with a wider demographic to serve. Just thinking out loud here guys...

ATB,

Mark

Son of Statement in a big black box that'll fit in a Fraim ? Able to push out 300 + watts, dual mono and cost £ 60.000.   Due for spring 2017 !

250 watts will do Toby.. but you are on the right track