Small integrated amps compared. Naim vs McIntosh

Anto, I have corrected your thread title - from Nim to Naim...

I had a demo a couple of weeks ago with 805D3/803D3 with a Mac stack and left unimpressed. The 805 demo was a $20,000 setup and I wouldn't pay half. Nice sound but lifeless. Couldn't wait to get back home to my lowly Uniti 2. I agree that Mac gear is over hyped, IMO. 

Thanks Richard, sorry for the typo error

I came from MC2500 pre and 275 tubes to MSB DAC and 250DR. There is only one rule: if you like the sound give a s..t about tests and what others say:-) You can't go wrong with Mcintosh and you can't go wrong with Naim if you like the sound. I sold the Mc's because I skipped the pre-amp and use the MSB DAC as a preamp now. The integrated amps, pre- and poweramps from McIntosh are great, the DAC is a mess (USB errors, wrong display etc.). 

Ralf

Hi Spurrier,

when I went to Milan Hi End show in April I visited th McItosh room, the set-up was a full Mc  with valves amplifiers and preamp and Sonus Faber Lilium speakers.  It has been a great experience with a majestic and superlative sound.

This is a picture of the system that was in demo

I too find the McIntosh sound "nice but lifeless," with one exception--the vintage 275 tube amp, which has remained in the line for decades (with some updates).   But my brother-in-law recently bought a complete Mc setup (including Mc turntable), and loves it.  To each his own.

I compared that / or a similar MC integrated to the Nait XS back in 2011 (not side by side; at different dealers) and did end up buying the Nait XS.  Something about the Naim sound did "it" for me. 

As for looks . . . my wife and I both preferred the Naim Black Box(tm).  We prefer subtle and contemporary; Naim boxes were preferred for both sound AND looks. 

Undoubtedly the McIntosh fora are filled with people posting that they prefer the MC sound over Naim ;-)

T38.45 posted:

. The integrated amps, pre- and poweramps from McIntosh are great, the DAC is a mess (USB errors, wrong display etc.). 

Ralf

My today's experience has left me disappointed, an XS won hands down. Perhaps the best Mc integrated amps are those with output autoformers that the 5200 does not

Anto68 posted:

What do you think,  British audiophiles about the American legend?

I think that partnered with good sources and appropriate speakers that complement the characteristics of their amplifiers, they can reproduce music engagingly at home. Will they be tearing me away from Naim? No.

Chris

I find their gear quite ugly, TBH.

I can understand how someone would like the system I heard but it just wasn't for me. Much like I'm sure there are some who wouldn't like my setup. 

Don't buy until you Try a Vitus integrated they are breathtaking 

+1 try even the reference series integrated - one of the best systems I have ever heard was the RI100 with the smallest Estellons. If I was ever to have walked into the shop and walked out with a system it would have been that one.

For some reason Mac gear is not always given the respect it deserves. In fact, like Naim, there are a ton of naysayers who either haven't heard it set up properly, or sadly, sometimes seem to be just a bit resentful of the success. McIntosh have been doing business for 60 plus years. Their core is amps, preamps, and integrateds. The newer stuff is smooth, detailed, with thunderous low end power. It is not clinical though if you listen closely it is detailed. Perhaps a bit warm over transparent. IMO the amps are probably more universal in terms of taste than the preamps which can err toward the sweet. I love my Naim but I enjoy listening to McIntosh as well. Unusually, my dealer sells both plus Audio Research, Ayre, and Boulder. Most of it is pretty darn good though everyone has their preferences and each manufacturer has their truly great pieces and their mostly average pieces. Nice sounding Mac amps include  the 275, 452, and 601 monoblocks. The 2301 tube monoblocks are world class period. The higher end integrateds are excellent with the MA 8000 being especially so. The 1100 preamp is excellent and the others are at least very good at their price points. The user interface is intuitive  and easy to use. Like everything in audio, taste, room, and associated equipment can make or break a system. Like Naim, perhaps more so if that's possible, Mac owners are very loyal.

Apart from sound quality I do find that MC looks absolutely terrible to me. I prefer simple and contemporary designs like Naim. 

Knipester posted:

Don't buy until you Try a Vitus integrated they are breathtaking 

I completely disagree. Some comments on this forum made me waste my time listening to what you suggested, and I came away even more happy with my 282/250DR. I won't say more out of courtesy.

Nowadays one cannot go wrong buying a 272/XPSDR/250 DR. Highly recommended.

I've never understood why people like Vitus so much. Not for me, I found the one I heard underwhelming and quite tiresome to listen to after a while (which I did out of politeness).

I can see why some people think that McIntosh stuff looks good, but those meters remind me too much of the 70s. And they are just so big. I guess if you have a big US house it's not an issue. It would be good to hear one some day. 

I quite like the look of it. Distinctive and very American and, like Naim, very easy to identify in the crowded Hi-Fi market. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

 And they are just so big. 

The MC152 power amp is not so big, delivers 150 wpc, and I would like to know how to integrate into a system with other Naim box like an pre 272/282.  When I asked if it might be a good match with my SU using it as a pre, the dealer told me that it would be a step back in comparison to a SU wuth its internal amp. However, it would be interesting to do a test.

This is the MC152, I really like the look, but do not know the performance. Its street price is 4.000,00 euro. I love the Naim sound and I'd like to have in the future an audio system by Naim and Mcintosh

Having 2 status symbol in a same system would not be a bad idea

I'd go with one or the other - Naim sources with the Mac amps might work (and vice versa) but mixing and matching amp components between the brands may not be such a happy arrangement...

Ultimately - determine your budget and then go and listen to the options and see what you prefer  

I  recently listened to a few Mc systems. One was a 40K all Mc system with largish XR50 stand mount speakers (81dB). It sounded very nice as one would expect for 40K.

The second system was an MA6700 fed by an Aurender streamer into a pair of 25K B&W speakers(I forget the model). Again it sounded very nice but it was also close to 40K.

I do like the Mc look - it creates a comforting presence in the room. However I'm not a fan of multiple boxes (even Naim) especially when they're that big. Too much of a good thing I suppose.

So my conclusion is that Mc can indeed sound good if you're looking to spend a fair amount of cash. In the entry to mid level integrated category I would still chose Naim for the sound. I like the minimalist styling of Naim but also like the Mc look but only for one component of reasonable dimensions.

If I were looking for an alternative look and sound to Naim at entry-mid leveI I would consider one of Yamaha's offerings before Mc.

Iconoclast posted:

I  recently listened to a few Mc systems. 

 

Can you supersize for an extra £1?

Hungryhalibut posted:

Iconoclast posted:

I  recently listened to a few Mc systems. 

 

Can you supersize for an extra £1?

There you go!