ND5 XS Vs NDX vs NDAC

Indeed - nDAC takes some getting used to. The amount of musical information it extracts from a recording can be, to an untrained ear, overwhealming at times.

The best test is to remove it from a source after a while and see if you miss it. 

SpecCled Trout posted:

At present there are no cables - it is simply a USB stick at the moment. I think it is relative to the CDS2 which is why I say thay are initial impressions.

I think the source material has a huge impact. Modern, popular music CDs have a very aggressive mix which exacerbates it. Reference recordings and older CDs produced in a different era are much better to listen too.

I think the real issue is the 'window' is simply being opened wider but the nDAC. Warts and all.

 

Hi Trout,

like I wrote earlier it Would test if its possible to try out audirvana and spdf/usb-Interface. Remember the usb to be good but more aggressive. And many People her har meaning that the back-usb is better than one in the front...

Fred

My intention is to set it up with MM and Audirvarna - the first step was to decide if I liked the DAC in principle. Which I do!

PS For anyone else buying a second hand nDAC and plugging in an XPS, you need to leave the mains plugged in on the nDAC for it work. That threw me for a while!!

Internal power supply handles one section (if I recall correctly it's the digital one) and external one handles the rest.

Today I have been playing with a Marantz CD-63 SE KS as a transport!!! It is a player I picked up from eBay for a few pounds for my garden office!

Sounds surprisingly good. Certainly good enough to be a back-up CD player for the kids!

If dsd is important, get an USB/spdf device that does dsd 384 bit.

Fred

Fred11 posted:

If dsd is important, get an USB/spdf device that does dsd 384 bit.

Fred

One such is theinexpensive Gustard U12

I will check that out thank you. I thought others had recommended the mini-TOS-TOS for the Mac Mini to nDAC?

I don't recall specific mention of "mini TOS-TOS" in this thread, though there was mention of optical link. However as mentioned earlier, IIRC the optical output of the Mac Mini isn't as good as the USB output because it still uses the MM's sound card, which USB bypasses completely if  Audirvana set up for ultimate quality.

But the USB ourput is electrically noisy, hence the need for an isolator, at least into Hugo (I don't know about nDAC). The  Gustard works well with Mac Mini into Hugo isolates and converts from USB to SPDIF, with several outputs including electrical and optical out. Available on both a well known auction site and online bookstore. There are other products available, but some cost more.

Thank you. I was referring to other threads I had been reading on this topic. I have been learning a lot about streaming and devices recently! If I may ask for a little further insight.

Is the connection to the Gustard a straight forward USB cable?

What about the Gustard to the DAC? Optical or coax? Does it make a difference?

MM to Gustard is standard USB A-B. YOu can use either orptical or electrical SPDIF between Gustard and DAC, as it has both coaxial electrical, and  optical outputs, also AES/EBU and IIS. I use coax SPDIF to Hugo, and keep meaning to compare optical but haven't got around to it.

before investing in an isolator/convertor there's no harm in trying MM optical to DAC, as if that sounds good it may do you, before gambling the £120 or so for an isolator/convertor to see if you can hear the improvement with it

Hugo TT is said to sound even better than plain Hugo, and doesn't need an isolator/convertor - but costs over twice the price. I haven't heard so can't comment on difference.

SpecCled Trout posted:

Today I have been playing with a Marantz CD-63 SE KS as a transport!!! It is a player I picked up from eBay for a few pounds for my garden office!

Sounds surprisingly good. Certainly good enough to be a back-up CD player for the kids!

 

Yes that is a great player that will put many CDP to shame for its overall presentation. Had one for nearly 10 years before the optical started failing and it becomes irrepairable.

I am currently using a CD6004 as a transport to my NDX. :-)

To my mind the ndac really needs (at least) an xps2 to put it in the top flight of naim sources.

G

Innocent Bystander posted:

Hugo TT is said to sound even better than plain Hugo, and doesn't need an isolator/convertor - but costs over twice the price. I haven't heard so can't comment on difference.

Not to me having heard them both.(on SPDIF, but agree TT USB is better than Hugo USB) . The original Hugo does something very right.. Perhaps it was a fluke .. I don't know ?

GraemeH posted:

To my mind the ndac really needs (at least) an xps2 to put it in the top flight of naim sources.

G

I'd go further.. In my experience it was only when I put the 555PS (non DR) on my NDAC  did I feel the NDAC was truly performing... But I agree that is quite a lot of space and cash for a DAC.

For cabling, a good coax- or BNC- cable. Chord has a simple but greatly reviewed USB- cable. Google it! Audiophileo is great and small device. Its used inside the newest Naim-USB dac. My Teddy is considered one of the better and weiss and Berkeley is top notch but costing a lot. Do not use the optical Mac-connection....

Fred

With regard to optical vs electrical SPDIF, I do feel the quality of consumer TOSLINK interfaces and cables are such that there is a lot of blurring of the Manchester encoded waveform, hence production of intermodulation cross talk from the reclocking/de jitter processor of the DAC.. which if so perhaps explains why I have never found TOSLINK bettering a quality electrical SPDIF transport.... but it has clear advantages over electrical on lower quality transport sources.

Simon

I have both a Gustard U12 and a Yellowtec PUC2 here for evaluation on the Naim DAC.  I haven't tried the Gustard for very long but so far impressions are that it's quite an impressive bit of kit for the money. Well finished and seems nicely put together, and the display is a nice touch for those of us who sometimes wonder whether the computer is outputting what it says it should...  At the moment I am using the AES/EBU digital output as this makes an easy cable swap with the Yellowtec. Cabling is an AES/EBU 110ohm balanced cable to the DAC where I have a directly connected 75ohm BNC coupler connected to a Canare 110ohm-75ohm transformer.  When I have some time I'll try the single ended s/pdif connection to the DAC using a DC-1 cable.

Richard, it would be really cool With a Naim Usb-spdf converter; the NAIMUSB! With a small napsc-sized Box or perhaps hicap-sized With great powersuply etc...

Regards

Fred

Fred, although I'm no longer privy to Naim's product development plans,  I wouldn't bet on them making a USB/S/pdif convertor. I think Naim prefer the server/streamer solution or integrating the USB as per the DAC-V1. 

GreameH,

I am using the nDAC with an XPS2.

David

GraemeH posted:

To my mind the ndac really needs (at least) an xps2 to put it in the top flight of naim sources.

G

I'd agree that the nDAC responds very well to external PSU upgrades but I'd also suggest that it is very important to give it a high-quality digital feed. The nDAC seems very discriminating in that regard. I previously found that my nDAC preformed better bare when being fed by a CDX2.2 than it did when powered by an XPS2 and fed by an Accuphase CD transport. Quality of the digital source is often overlooked.

I'd also say that an nDAC powered by an XP5XS gives about 80% of the performance improvement of an XPS2 but for half the price.  

Mike 

Agree with MDS on the source importance. Having run some extented tests at home it was relatively easy to tell the difference between say ND5XS and NDX. Less so with CD5XS and CDX2.2 - the differences were more subtle, but still there.