Gustard U12 burn in?

I can't really answer that, mailly because I was happy with it immediately and thought no more of it (and beacause I am far from convinced that most electronics - or cables- burn in at all: I believe it is mostly a matter of people getting used to end learning to like the different new sound, unlike speakers where mechanical flexing of speaker surrounds.)

For me, when I first tried Audirvana on MM into Hugo it was simply disappointing, I described it as being like a veil drawn over the sound, compared to a reference point was ND5XS into Hugo. That was using the USB connection. I then tried the MM optical out to Hugo, and felt it similar to the ND5XS/Hugo, so that may have done me, however Knowing that Audirvana claimed the USB output was better through bypassing the MM soundcard, and based on the positive views of others re the potential of MM/Audi/Hugo I felt the then £110 for the Gustard was worth the gamble. Even if that didn't do the trick then I had something as good SQ wise as before but substantially cheaper even factoring in the gamble. However as soon as I connected the Gustard I was instantly happy with the sound, better than ND5XS as renderer, so I could sell that and be quids in with my overall change, better SQ, no noisy NAS, and at net cost saving.

not sure if that helps - the question is whether you like the new sound, or feel you could get used to it and like it.

Thank you, Innocent Bystander. It was you who recommended the Gustard to me on my previous thread. I am also unsure whether a device like the Gustard would exhibit noticeable burn-in, but I'd better not open up that can of worms! I do agree that the Gustard brings extra clarity to the Hugo, even if the tonal shift I experience takes getting used to.

I didn't realise that you were using an optical connection out of the Gustard into the Hugo - for some reason it was in my mind that you were using coaxial. 

I tried the optical connection to the Hugo yesterday and first impressions were very positive. The Gustard allows Audirvarna's preferred output (USB) and Rob Watts' preferred Hugo input (optical) to be combined. I would still prefer to leave the optical input free for the TV/Bluray but music is most important to me.

Do you use the stock optical cable or something else?

Hi Flumpet, i must have said something unclear: I use electrical SPDIF between Gustard and Hugo. I have intended to campare optical, but have never got around to it.

I did use optical temporarily MM to Hugo before I got the Gustard, because I simply didn't like the USB direct.

Meanwhile Richard Dane has said he's trialling one, so I don't know if he has any observations on burn in or not...

Hi Innocent Bystander. Thank you. I assumed that you retained your optical connection when introducing the Gustard. 

Having just heard Queensryche's Operation: Mindcrime with a clarity and drive I've never experienced before (and I've had it on tape and then CD for 28 years), the Gustard is definitely bringing something positive to my system. But I'll spend a little more time comparing optical and coaxial to see if one of them gives me a more satisfying tonal balance.

Many thanks for your help!

IB, mine already had some hours on it, so can't comment on "burn in".  So far impressions are that it's a very good bit of kit, and a great way for Naim DAC owners to connect to a computer without serious performance compromise, and all at a comparative bargain price.

Next test will be to compare against the Yellowtec PUC2...

Hi! Looking forward to hearing about the Yellowtech. It has gotten rave reviews lately, some mean its better than Berkeley. Wonder how you will solve the AES-BNC Connection. Are you testing With an NDAC, Richard?
Regards Fred

Any ideas on how to connect a Yellowtech PUC2 Lite to an nDAC?

I connect via AES EBU 110ohm digital cable.  At the Naim DAC end I have an RS 75ohm BNC to BNC coupler connecting one of the BNC inputs on the DAC to a Japanese Canare 110ohm to 75ohm transformer, as pictured below;

I use the same on the Gustard U12 as this also has an AES/EBU digital output in addition to the coaxial s/pdif.  It seems to work very well although you do need some extra depth behind the DAC to accommodate the transformer.

Thank you - instinctively I was thinking that surely the more connections the worse - it is good to hear your experience does not support that.

I have just done a search. 

$28 in the US

£62 in the UK

Doh!

Look for NOS - they could well be cheaper and should be made in Japan rather than PRC...

As for the 75ohm BNC to BNC couplers, get the best you can, and that probably means NOS too - the old UK made RS couplers are ideal. 

Great to know, Richard, about AES/bnc connection. Now the question many Wonder about; Yellowtech vs Gustard. Richard, please, is the Yellowtech AS great as many say? 

Fred

The Yellowtech is there on the rack but so far I haven't hooked it up - too busy with other things (and the Gustard is doing a fine job).  There are some other options I wish to explore with the Gustard first - a better AES/EBU cable (currently using a Van Damme Green 110ohm AES/EBU Digital cable) such as a DH Labs (further suggestions welcome), and connection of the transformer at the other end and then connection via a BNC-BNC s/pdif cable - in theory I think this should be a backward step, but welcome any further input here.

If i would go for a Yellowtech, it would hopefully be with my digital BNC-Naim cable and an adaptor at the AES-end (the signals start). Is there a theory on why a 110-cable should be better?

regards Fred

Thiese transformers are available at a slightly better price, I know nothing about quality, some advice would be good. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/...or-adapters/7051503/  For around £30.

Rob

Dear all, thank you for your responses to my initial post and the interesting discussion that followed. I don't know whether my Gustard requires burn-in, but anyway I've moved from a coaxial cable to an optical cable from the Gustard to the Hugo. For all talk of 1s and 0s there is to my ears a clear difference.

The coaxial cable produces in my system a slightly hollowed-out sound which is slightly less natural to my ears, but on the other hand the soundstage is wider than ever and the timing is excellent - really engaging. This is the first time I've really experienced the famed 'PRaT' (I have no Naim components yet), although with some albums it can be a little fatiguing.

However, the problem with the cut-outs when lights and other electrical devices are switched in the vicinity of the living room has not been solved by the Gustard set-up, so I have moved to an optical connection which (as previously) avoids this problem. The music is now to my ears more natural (and of course, uninterrupted), though a little less rhythmic and with a narrower soundstage. 

Unfortunately the Gustard has been acting up a bit in the last week - it has started to lose connection with the Mac Mini when not in use. Normally, whether in use or not, the Gustard displays the sample rate on its display (in my case 44.1). Now, when not in use for a while (and this 'while' can be minutes or hours), the Gustard display shows '----' which I believe indicates that it is on, but does not know the sample rate. In this state, I cannot play music from Audirvana. It can be rectified by unplugging and replugging the USB cable (either out of the Mac or into the Gustard), but I don't want to have to do this all the time. 

This problem occurs with both optical and coaxial cables out and (more relevant, as the problem is probably upstream) with 2 different USB cables. I did install the latest update to Audirvana during the week, thought I cannot remember if my problem followed or preceded that update. 

Has anyone else with a Gustard experienced this '----' issue? 

Many thanks for any advice! 

My Gustard has behaved faultlessly (touchwood), only going off when I turn the MM off (something I do periodically because I learnt years ago that (in general) computers and NASs benefit from refreshing themselves - nomidea if that is true of the MM, but I do it anyway.

Gustard senses the USB input and uses that to switch on or off. Given your problem with electrical SPDIF, which I dont think anyone else recognised (?) it is making me wonder if you have some odd electrical interference inducing maybe occasional pulses in the signal cables, including USB, confusing the receiving device. Do you ever hear odd pops through the speakers, whether playing music or when silent but powerered up? Electical issues might not cause that, however if you do that would seem to be some evidence of electrical disturbance.

Thank you, IB. I don't experience any pops or clicks through the speakers with or without music, and before the SPDIF drop-out issue I had no reason to believe that there was anything untoward in my electrical system. I live in a newish (2008) apartment block in Switzerland. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I'm led to believe that Swiss apartments use a 'radial' wiring system, and Swiss plugs are 3-pin but without fuses. I previously lived in the apartment one floor below, with the same SPDIF issues.

My feeling is that the Gustard isn't switching itself off - if it were to simply switch off then the display would go blank, and if it were switching itself off and on instantaneously then it should find the sample rate again (as it does when I unplug the USB cable and plug it back in). I think that somehow the information coming from the Mac Mini relating to the sample rate is getting lost. Either it is getting lost in the Gustard (perhaps a fault?) or it is getting lost in the Mac Mini (as I said, I did update to the latest Audirvana during the past week - I don't know if there are new bugs arising from this). Or perhaps there are pulses causing the problem.

Are you using Audirvana or a Naim source?  

I'm also using Audirvana, and like you I updated mine to the larest version a few days ago, with no problems. I'm not sure I can offer anything more to help though trying to compare your setup with mine (but with no reason to think any difference will account for your problems): are you using a dedicated usb output on the MM? (Audirvana manual explains.) what version MM is yours? MIne is Late 2012.

Thank you. I have a MM 2014. I've heard about dedicated USB outputs, but I believe on the MM 2014 all USB outputs share the same bus. I've tried using all 4 USB outputs, but the USB port always appears under USB 3.0 Hi-Speed Bus in the device tree. I'm running Yosemite 10.10.5.  I have a 1Gb Fusion Drive and 8Gb memory. The MM is dedicated purely to playing music via Audirvana. I have Bluetooth and the IR receiver turned off, though I do use a wireless USB mouse to control the MM. 

I doubt any of this is relevant, but just in case:

interrogating my MM shows one USB2 bus with just 'hub'  listed, one USB2 bus showing hub connected to bluetooth controller and IR receiver (though both are turned off), and one USB3 bus connected to xCORE USB Audio (which is how the Gustard shows up). Does yours not show more than one USB3 bus? Do you need to have a mouse connected? You say you use to control - does that mean you also have a screen connected? I control my MM remotely either with tablet, another computer or phone) using VNC remote software (free version).

My MM is running IOS 10.11.5 ("el capitan"), but the revisions since whatever whas the current one last summer when I installed the Gustard have not affected Audirvana or behaviour.

The gustard has both aes and bnc outputs I think, why not use bnc to bnc into the NDac.  Richard implies (or I've missed the point again) that he favours an aes/bnc converter.

I don't know whether Richard has a preference for AES/EBU or whether it is simply to facilitate like-for-like comparison with the other unit he's testing.

Personally I feel that the fewer conversions the better, and although impedance matching transformers are pretty much basic components in the VHF/UHF world, unless AES/EBU has some advantage over the BNC SPDIF out, my inclination would be to stick to BNC. But we'll have to await Richard's elucidation.

The Gustard doesn't use BNC on its coaxial spdif out unfortunately, its just an RCA phono socket. Aes EBU allowed use of a balanced cable all the way to the DAC where conversion takes place from 110 ohm balanced to 75ohm single ended. The PUC2 only has Aes EBU so an easy swap for comparisons to come in the future. 

Flumpet posted:

Unfortunately the Gustard has been acting up a bit in the last week - it has started to lose connection with the Mac Mini when not in use. Normally, whether in use or not, the Gustard displays the sample rate on its display (in my case 44.1). Now, when not in use for a while (and this 'while' can be minutes or hours), the Gustard display shows '----' which I believe indicates that it is on, but does not know the sample rate. In this state, I cannot play music from Audirvana. It can be rectified by unplugging and replugging the USB cable (either out of the Mac or into the Gustard), but I don't want to have to do this all the time. 

Just a thought ... But have you tried setting the Gustard as the default output device and see if that retains the connection to the Mac.  If it doesn't it may be a problem with your unit, if it does then it suggests the problem may be with Audirvana (the update perhaps).

Richard Dane posted:

The Yellowtech is there on the rack but so far I haven't hooked it up - too busy with other things (and the Gustard is doing a fine job).  There are some other options I wish to explore with the Gustard first - a better AES/EBU cable (currently using a Van Damme Green 110ohm AES/EBU Digital cable) such as a DH Labs (further suggestions welcome), and connection of the transformer at the other end and then connection via a BNC-BNC s/pdif cable - in theory I think this should be a backward step, but welcome any further input here.

Richard, if you'll manage to give the Yellowtech a try, I would be grateful if you could report your impressions!

USB to SPDIF interfaces are known to have a non-negligible impact on the sound quality of the Naim DAC. However, it is difficult to find competent reviews and systematic comparisons of such devices.

Other USB to SPDIF interfaces that could be worth considering as inputs for the Naim DAC are the M2Tech hiFace Evo Two, the Audiobyte Hydra Z and the EC designs XTOS converter. The first two offer both BNC and Toslink SPDIF outputs.