Anyone left Naim for Devialet?

Fair enough, enjoy the devialet, as you mentioned it lacks "a little" in PRAT, but that is exactly why I am not prepared to own anything other than Naim in an amplifier. But each to their own. For me personally time listening time is scarce and precious, so that "little bit of praT" missing means that I would not be getting the full enjoyment of music. Why bother with a downgrade in listening enjoyment?

Analogmusic,

Why so defensive attitude? Isn't it refreshing that there's healthy discussion about other brands and possibilities on Naim forum also? I find it very refreshing. I do love my Naim kit but find this kind of threads very interesting.

Surely such competition is needed to give Naim that push to be a step ahead of the game? I like others enjoy discussion on other brands and ultimately, it's other brands that have lead me to gain most enjoyment from my Naim amplifier. 

not defensive, but surely the debate has 2 sides, some who prefer devialet for a mix of convenience and sound quality, and then some like me, for whom the Naim values of Pace Rhythm and timing are the only ones I am looking for in an amplifier.

The founder of Naim once famously said "music is about people, and if you can't hear what the people on the record are doing, then it's just not worth it"

And Naim are very good at doing that, but they are not the only ones so endowed.

An interesting discussion.  In my view it is healthy to have other brands discussed on here, both for the visitors to stop the forum becoming repetitive and boring but, possibly, also for Naim to see where the market is shifting and to keep them on their toes.  Would we have had the 272 and the revised firmware on the dacs etc without all the fuss the Hugo caused?  Possibly but I'm sure it helped set the agenda.

Secondly in my view the worst thing that could happen to Naim is that their customers become sheep blindly buying only Naim in their systems.  That way leads to Apple with its fans applauding a new connector that make their peripherals unusable and real innovation coming from elsewhere.  Personally I like almost everything Naim does but I'm not keen on their dacs/streamers and have found another route.  That doesn't mean that the Naim dacs/streamers are bad products, it just means I prefer a different direction, for now.

One of the things I love about this forum, along with the generally high standard of discussion, is Naim's willingness to allow discussion on other brands and on subjects that other brands would not tolerate.  I feel it is a great strength and, in some ways, gives me comfort that Naim have faith in their product and are happy to meet new challenges.  

At the end of the day it's only hifi and its purpose is to get you to your music, what ever helps to achieve that, from any brand, it's all good. 

Perhaps the Naim "DR" has been over prescribing the PRAT medicine to the affected patients and thus building a physiological intolerance. A healthy dose of abstinence is needed to bring back natural levels of PRATability.

kaydee6 posted:

Lovely feedback from you guys.. Am now using a sn2 and ndx but will go audition the d200 soon.. 

I would suggest that you take a good look at the Unofficial Devialet Chat forum. There are quite a few people on there who have switched from Naim to Devialet. I don't recall any of them mentioning a loss of prat...

Devialet amps are very transparent and clearly reveal differences between sources.  Are you planning to keep your NDX?  I used one into my Devialet for about a year but in the end found no SQ or usability advantages over a Mac running Devialet's AIR software so I sold the NDX.  By the way, I found that the NDX+XPS was a much better digital source into the Devialet than a bare NDX (s/pdif).  Devialet have released a (freely available) beta version of the next release of AIR 3.0 for Mac which offers truly excellent SQ - much better than AIR 2.0 or by extrapolation, the bare NDX.  Your dealer may or may not want to demo using beta software  

If you want to try other digital sources then I would recommend the Aurender N100H which has an excellent, detailed sound a bit on the warm and smooth side of neutral but very enjoyable to listen to and many use the Melco N1A which is very detailed and more neutral than the Aurender.  Both these have internal storage which obviates the need for a NAS.

My current preference is for a MacBook Pro running AIR 3.0 which sounds superb with Qobuz or locally streamed files (Sq more like Melco than Aurender) and means I can run a system including just the MacBook, Devialet and speakers. 

analogmusic posted:

Fair enough, enjoy the devialet, as you mentioned it lacks "a little" in PRAT, but that is exactly why I am not prepared to own anything other than Naim in an amplifier. But each to their own. For me personally time listening time is scarce and precious, so that "little bit of praT" missing means that I would not be getting the full enjoyment of music. Why bother with a downgrade in listening enjoyment?

Surely Naim aren't the only brand that offers PRaT and PRaT isn't the only desirable quality in music reproduction. We're not keeping an open mind if we automatically assume that venturing outside of Naimland will result in a life of musical boredom and despair.

dayjay posted:

An interesting discussion.  In my view it is healthy to have other brands discussed on here, both for the visitors to stop the forum becoming repetitive and boring but, possibly, also for Naim to see where the market is shifting and to keep them on their toes.  Would we have had the 272 and the revised firmware on the dacs etc without all the fuss the Hugo caused?  Possibly but I'm sure it helped set the agenda.

Secondly in my view the worst thing that could happen to Naim is that their customers become sheep blindly buying only Naim in their systems.  That way leads to Apple with its fans applauding a new connector that make their peripherals unusable and real innovation coming from elsewhere.  Personally I like almost everything Naim does but I'm not keen on their dacs/streamers and have found another route.  That doesn't mean that the Naim dacs/streamers are bad products, it just means I prefer a different direction, for now.

One of the things I love about this forum, along with the generally high standard of discussion, is Naim's willingness to allow discussion on other brands and on subjects that other brands would not tolerate.  I feel it is a great strength and, in some ways, gives me comfort that Naim have faith in their product and are happy to meet new challenges.  

At the end of the day it's only hifi and its purpose is to get you to your music, what ever helps to achieve that, from any brand, it's all good. 

 

My thoughts exactly.

Nice discussion!

I love my naim setup but always open to great products outside of the naim circle.

Just the other day, I listened to the Accuphase E600 30w class A amplifier. Beautifully made in japan and with a romantic, lush and holographic sound. It's the total opposite of Naim and I love it!

There are just some music that play very well on the Accuphase. Naim still has its magic but it's all about compromise and there is a possibility I will miss part of the Naim sound with the Accuphase...

PhilP posted:

kaydee6 posted:

Lovely feedback from you guys.. Am now using a sn2 and ndx but will go audition the d200 soon.. 

I would suggest that you take a good look at the Unofficial Devialet Chat forum. There are quite a few people on there who have switched from Naim to Devialet. I don't recall any of them mentioning a loss of prat...

Devialet amps are very transparent and clearly reveal differences between sources.  Are you planning to keep your NDX?  I used one into my Devialet for about a year but in the end found no SQ or usability advantages over a Mac running Devialet's AIR software so I sold the NDX.  By the way, I found that the NDX+XPS was a much better digital source into the Devialet than a bare NDX (s/pdif).  Devialet have released a (freely available) beta version of the next release of AIR 3.0 for Mac which offers truly excellent SQ - much better than AIR 2.0 or by extrapolation, the bare NDX.  Your dealer may or may not want to demo using beta software  

If you want to try other digital sources then I would recommend the Aurender N100H which has an excellent, detailed sound a bit on the warm and smooth side of neutral but very enjoyable to listen to and many use the Melco N1A which is very detailed and more neutral than the Aurender.  Both these have internal storage which obviates the need for a NAS.

My current preference is for a MacBook Pro running AIR 3.0 which sounds superb with Qobuz or locally streamed files (Sq more like Melco than Aurender) and means I can run a system including just the MacBook, Devialet and speakers. 

Thanks for the feedback.

How do you remote control music on the Mac? Let's say if I want to play Tidal, how to control it on the computer to the Devialet without leaving my chair?

AIR acts as a virtual sound card so you just set up a system preference to output to it. You can stream either via wifi or Ethernet cable.

When I use my MacBook I either have it on my lap or else just put on a table next to me. If you use AIR you can run the Tidal app on the MacBook too. That's what I do with Qobuz and iTunes. I know others are running Roon on their MacBooks and streaming via AIR.

As far as I am aware there is no equivalent of the Apple Remote iPad app for Tidal so if you want to run everything on a Mac Mini/iMac then you would have to use remote Desktop S/W like vnc or splashtop. but I wouldn't recommend it. A streamer like an Aurender or NDX with Tidal integration would be neater - but a MacBook is cheaper, equally as good sound wise with AIR and a lot more flexible. 

I was going to go down the Mac mini route but tried the MacBook and am very happy with it

kaydee6 posted:

Nice discussion!

I love my naim setup but always open to great products outside of the naim circle.

Just the other day, I listened to the Accuphase E600 30w class A amplifier. Beautifully made in japan and with a romantic, lush and holographic sound. It's the total opposite of Naim and I love it!

There are just some music that play very well on the Accuphase. Naim still has its magic but it's all about compromise and there is a possibility I will miss part of the Naim sound with the Accuphase...

 

Accuphase is a legendary brand, high-class performance, especially cd players are among the best with high but reasonable costs

Based on my listening I think Devialet is closer to the Naim sound than most. IMO Naim edges it for PRaT, but the superb grip that Devialet has over bass is a mark in its favour. My comments refer to the 200. The expert 120 while very enjoyable is not quite as potent or visceral as the 200.

We can look a little enviously at Devialet's SAM, and Linn's Space Optimisation. They are interesting and quite useful technologies, but it's important to keep a balanced view. Naim also has cards to play.

I am very keen to see Naim leverage it's amplification technology and speaker know how, together with Focals speaker/driver IP to develop a genuine active Naim system. 

To answer the OP, yes, last month after 20 years of very happy Naim ownership, I finally moved on to pastures new.

I have heard many exotic systems over the years but remained perfectly content in Naimland.  Then by chance I ended up with some Devialet 400 monos at home up against my 252/300 (speakers are Neat MF7). My comments should be taken in the context of these components and not lesser Naim or Devialet models.

I would describe the sonic signature of both Naim and Devialet as very similar. My preconception was that Devialet was too lifestyle to cut the sonic mustard, but I was taken aback by the capabilities of the Devialet. More bottom end grip, the complete user friendliness, the technology, and aesthetics and I was contemplating the unthinkable.

One month on and I have no regrets, but never say never.

@adamk,

My limited understanding is that with the Devialet you'd now be listening to your LP12 signal processed through a DAC. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's the case how are you finding your LP replay with the new system?

Your understanding is correct - my LP12 replay is handled by my Urika and then processed through the Devialet DAC and sounds very very good to my ears.

The Devialet does have a fully configurable phono stage on board so I could go to the trouble of removing the Urika and let the 400 handle phono duties. However, not everything is perfect in Devialet Land as there is talk of a low level hum for low output Carts when running through the Dev stage (easily curable by the addition of a step-up transformer apparently).

I have therefore decided at present to leave as is and just enjoy the music.

Not sure about Naim but I think the Devialet Expert range gives a really compelling alternative to Linn in terms of design and the ability to build a hi-end system with a single slimline box. If I had not been put off by the product roadmap Linn took, I can seriously see how I might be comparing Devialet to Linn before buying.

I kind of feel the Devialet is to Linn what Bryston is to Naim.

feeling_zen posted:

If I had not been put off by the product roadmap Linn took, I can seriously see how I might be comparing Devialet to Linn before buying.

Linn's ability to go active with their speakers in stages is attractive though, isn't it? And their speaker cable isn't terribly cost prohibitive. Not sure, but even with four runs on a completely active Linn system I think it may still come in cheaper than a single run of NACA5.

That said, my very limited listening between the brands found Devialet more akin to Naim while Linn has perhaps a softer, warmer, and less aggressive presentation - rich on timbre.

feeling_zen posted:

I kind of feel the Devialet is to Linn what Bryston is to Naim.

 

I do not agree, The Devialet products do not compete with anyone, for the simple reason that no one, until now, has the ability to have the Devialet technology.  Linn has not SAM which is proprietary technology to match as in an almost perfect the amp to the speakers. Any updates or upgrades with Devialet is free and you can do it from your own home simply by downloading the new release (this means you always have a new amp ... nothing mk1 mk2 etc etc).

I have listened Devialet Le 120 but it is not for me, I do not like the sound to much sharp and clear, the live music is not like that, for me lacks soul, it is too analytical (IMHO). However Devialet is an amazing product

Devialet's products are certainly attractive. If you like the sound then you've got a rather nice package. Very "hi-fi" presentation with music so not for me.

I sold my Devialet for a MSB DAC + NAP250DR, don't look back. Devialet sounds incredible in the first shot BUT you MUST listen to it for a longer time.....it has incredible resolution, clear but - after some time- a lifeless presentation. But I understand why folks love Devialet...same like Magico (love it or hate it ;-))

technologies may come and go, but there will always be a place in my home for that precious thing which is 

A fully analog Naim preamplifier (with a Linear Naim power supply)  and fully analog Naim power amplifier.

If my Vinyl is sourced from pure analog recordings, then I want to be able to hear that all the way to the speaker - nothing digital in the middle.

Anto68 posted:

feeling_zen posted:

I kind of feel the Devialet is to Linn what Bryston is to Naim.

 

 

I have listened Devialet Le 120 but it is not for me, I do not like the sound to much sharp and clear, the live music is not like that, for me lacks soul, it is too analytical (IMHO). However Devialet is an amazing product

 

I can make my Devialet sound too sharp or too smooth just by switching source.  In my experience the amps are  amazingly transparent and just faithfully reflect the signal being sent to them. If you like smooth try an Aurender streamer as a source