Why does it sound slower after an upgrade?

The electrons need to learn a new route - it takes them more time to navigate until they get used to the new paths, turns and junctions.

Does it eventually quicken up again? If so Huge is spot on. If it doesn't, maybe it's something to do with timing? You know? That thing that Naim is famous for?

Maybe the electricity supply is inadequate, and the added load of an additional item drops the voltage, causing the turntable t slow down...  Except they're immune to that, so is the electricity supply from a poorly regulated generator, added load causing a change to AC supply frequency, thus affecting synchronous motors etc.

More likely psychological, as you suggest, if you're all psyched up with excited anticipation. Of course, same thing could make your brain more sensitive to nuances in the music, so it sounds better (as well as slower) even though actually the same.

what does 'slower' mean? a track that used to take 3min now lasts 4mins?

enjoy

ken

I think the OP means the tempo can take a step back and seem slightly slower as you upgrade to better boxes. I have heard many dealers say this, and claim that with a good upgrade the music should sound slower...... Personally i think it's nonsense.

I believe that as more information is presented to you due to an upgrade, your brain sees the added information as a slower more elaborate, detailed experience, hard to explain but as more has happened in front of you (musically) it feels more  like a longer time has passed. Also an extended bass response may make you feel like more time is taken to explain what the musicians are doing, don't know if I'm making sense but I'm just trying to say its an illusion ( a good one)

Mario

i have had the opposite experience. after a good upgrade, tracks that i know well seemed to finish much sooner than i remember. so i guess you could say psychologically 'faster'?

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ken

There was a thread later last year about "time standing still" or thereabouts. It was about the issue you raise. I experienced it myself when I replaced the 300 with the 500. I did actually get my metronome out to check some songs what I knew the bpm for. You do adjust and enjoy the upgrade though.

Dave

If you reverse the upgrade, does the speed effect reverse?

My experience is that after a significant turn off or a new component, the balance of the system is heavier, the bass a bit fatter, less transparent. Over a month or so that changes. On the whole with a few notable exceptions the Naim signature is consistent across the range, what you get on upgrading is more music coming through, more revealing, but at the same time more smoother and neutral☺️

Best regards Devraj

Innocent Bystander posted:

If you reverse the upgrade, does the speed effect reverse?

good question :-)

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ken

The brain is perhaps doing somersaults trying to process very familiar but newly presented information is my guess.

As Devraj notes, this adjusts over time - I'm experiencing it with my newly acquired 250.2 right now.

Where is Stefan...He can probably add a more scientific perspective.

G

It's because of increased bandwidth, power and information. It tends to expose the weak links in the chain, and one of them can be as simple as room acoustics. Sometimes, a loudspeaker positional tweak can help. In simple terms 'better' kit should boogie better.

It's the weird paradox of 'better' Hi-Fi. The higher one climbs; the harder it is to realise 100% of its potential. Good supports, cabling and set-up become all the more important.

As ever; a good dealer should be able to help. Good luck.

John.

By removing a layer of distortion you may hear a more relaxed presentation. The same phenomenon can happen when listening at low levels at night. 

I find another reason is that clarity tends to do this. Busy pieces of music are hard to untangle and lesser equipment has a hard job of resolving everything and the effects can be interpreted by the brain as things rushing by in a blur.  The upside is this can make things feel faster and exciting.

Then an upgrade like an 82 to a 52 is like a time machine. It resolves more detail and the sensation can be that the track is flowing by at a slower pace. The brain just doesn't feel rushed since details are not blurred.

J.N. posted:

....

It's the weird paradox of 'better' Hi-Fi. The higher one climbs; the harder it is to realise 100% of its potential. Good supports, cabling and set-up become all the more important.

 

absolutely, John...

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ken

I’ve heard my system sound both faster and slower after changes. Although it wasn’t actually faster or slower at all. Ever seen a very tight band, particularly with a telepathic rhythm section have all the time in the world to get all the flourishes is even when playing flat out? Almost like it's in slow motion but isn't. That’s timing. Naim’s good at it too. Maybe the upgrades are showing something like this illusion?

Mario posted:

> I believe that as more information is presented to you due to an upgrade, your brain sees the added information as a slower more elaborate, detailed experience <

Correct. At the end of the link below, there is a link to the article "How Music Hijacks Our Perception of Time". It explains the effect well.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...47#49295591095618247 

An increase in clarity and detail means that there is more for the ears and brain and heart to process. Of course, we are doing so in the same amount of wall clock time - a three minute song still takes three minutes to play.

But if, subconsciously, we make the incorrect assumption that the rate at which we can process musical information is a constant, then hearing more detail can result in us tricking ourselves in to feeling as if that three minute song actually took longer to play.

Of course, if we are listening to music on a rocket ship approaching the speed of light... 

Dans la lenteur il y a la richesse.

(Sergiu Celibidache, 1912-1996, composer, conductor, theoretician and teacher)

Quickest and cheapest upgrade could be to smoke up a big green one.  Notice a similar exchange of time and gestalt with added bonus of not really needing to have it turned up loud.

I experienced this ‘slowing’ effect once, in the Kudos room at the 2014 Bristol show, the occasion of my first listen to a (full) 500 system, through Kudos Super 10s.

It was particularly with a fast paced track (Rodrigo y Gabriella) that I knew well, but which on the 500/Super 10s seemed to be more ‘expansive’, with more time and ease with which to hear and get deeper in to and more absorbed by the rhythms and dynamics of the music. I made a mental note at the time that the effect was as if  the music (and time) had slowed down. I hadn’t come across anyone describing such an effect anywhere beforehand, but some time afterwards I came across Jan-Erik’s thread on the effect of the super lumina interconnect (I think that was the thread). I found that, as well as this thread, reassuring!

Anyway, I have only experienced this effect the once. I didn’t experience it with any of my upgrades. At the time, I simply put it down to my subjective response to the qualities of a really top notch system (in my view the best I had heard up to that point). Disappointingly, I found that the two subsequent occasions I heard a 500 system demo’d, it didn’t come up to the high expectations that I had from the first. However, both were in different environments, and each time with different speakers, and doubtless these variables played their part in what I was hearing.

ken c posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

If you reverse the upgrade, does the speed effect reverse?

good question :-)

enjoy

ken

Indeed, we need the OP to describe what they mean by 'slow down'. A better system will have more accurate timbral and dynamics reproduction of what is in the recording. This means, recording permitting, our brains work less hard at listening to the music and we can listen for longer without tiring and our attention is easier to maintain. So this will happen, but whether this is what the OP is referring to, heaven knows?

I can understand the question as I have had similar experiences.

I believe you think it sounds slower, but actually the sound has  been 'cleaned up' and those 'raggedy edges' that have been 'cleaned up' gave the impression of speed.  With the 'cleaned up' sound you reap the reward of more subtleties, nuances and timbres. I think the extra control an upgrade brings gives an initial false impression of slowness, which is why some systems that grab your attention initially can become fatiguing over time.

Good answer, Steve O.  I think maybe the 'fades' lasting longer contribute too.