Adding DAC to NDX. Go for used NDAC or new Chord Mojo?

Ndac into NDX, very good system.

Don't follow the hype, the chord will even spoil what you have.

It isn't hype.  I haven't compared the Mojo with a Ndac but I have compared a Hugo and it was head and shoulders better to my ears and in my system than a bare Ndac.  You can improve the Ndac with a power supply which, of course, significantly increases the cost and there is new firmware which is better.  As usual, try and take the opportunity to listen to both in you own system and don't listen to those that haven't heard both side by side - I did and the Hugo is easily the single best hifi upgrade I have ever made. 

I'm not saying the product is bad but in that context will act like that.

No need to mention the PSU either , the Ndac alone gives the hugest leap on NDX.

kaydee6 posted:

Chord Mojo seems to be the next best DAC. 90% score in HFNRR.

NDAC is long in the tooth but I like the PCM1704k dac in it, likely getting used one. 

Any experience with both with your setup? Advice? 

Thanks a bunch

Personally, I think it's all subjective, I think it all revolves around personal taste. Just the fact that you mentioned a Ndac, and on the Forum, you probably have a bare minimum of 20K invested in your Naim gear! And look at your end game!

Just a guess:

Ndx - Ndac- 555PS- 252/282- 250DR/300DR

You get the point, it all sounds good!

And the hype, trust me that's the best thing about Naim!  Point and case , picked up a 2014 HCDR 2nd hand, January of  2015, like new 1.7K!

You got it, someone in the market for this piece right now, and the hype, that's your best friend!

I don't think you can go wrong with a 2nd hand Ndac, in US they are going about 1.8K.

Price a mojo, hugo, etc.... .6K, 1.7K.....

And you must admit, all those black boxes Fraimed up sure looks sweet, but I'm old School!

As you can see, I'm fixated on the how!

Enjoy your Music, the why!

Allante93!

Antonio1 posted:

Ndac into NDX, very good system.

Don't follow the hype, the chord will even spoil what you have.

Don't think there is any hype any more - its all old news. Let your ears decide rather than preconceptions.

I loved my NDX -> NDAC/555PS, I just happened to like the NDX -> Hugo more.

I didn't believe it at first - given all the then hype about Naim DACs, and the fact I owned one too... but I let my ears decide rather than any preconceptions - and when I and others shared our findings of this there was so much defensive hype - so much so the thread even had to be suspended by Richard, the admin, at the time - luckily it was reinstated with the most of the obtuse posts removed.

With the Hugo  there was a inner naturalness and transparency  that just had my hairs tingling on my then 282/HiCaprDR/250.2 .. I then tried a more musically objective comparison just to ensure it wasn't a trick and I did this over a period of time- and the results are searchable on the forum from the reinstated thread - you might find it of interest.

The  Naim amps and NACS  work wonderfully well across a wide range of sources, and arguably the Hugo output can be set to optimally match the levels on the Classic series NAC inputs - which seems to improve the analogue naturalness even further

But as I say don't let me or anyone else tell you what to like- only you will know that... 

Simon

One thing i dont get it is nDac, what does it bring to streamer/dac like NDX ? NDX has a excellent dac already, i would understand if it is chord dave - something different - but nDAc? Will nDAC is a better dac then naim streamers? 

The NDX DAC and analogue output stage is good, but the NDAC is a lot better, using higher quality components and reduced SMT in the audio path.

The NDAC DAC and analogue output stage is quite close to the NDS - although the NDS takes thing further in terms of isolation and cross talk decoupling.

I used to prefer the NDAC/555PS to the NDS/555PS but I was in the minority.

Emre posted:

One thing i dont get it is nDac, what does it bring to streamer/dac like NDX ? NDX has a excellent dac already, i would understand if it is chord dave - something different - but nDAc? Will nDAC is a better dac then naim streamers? 

The Naim DAC is fair way ahead of the NDX - not surprising really as it uses selected PCM1704K DAC and Naim's fully discreet analogue stage, something usually reserved for the CDS3 player, NDS and CD555.  

Cards on the table, having owned a Naim DAC when it first came out then been seduced by other, newer, more fashionable things, I've actually come back to the Naim DAC recently and I have to say that what it does well, particularly when it has a XPS2/555PS/DR attached, it does perhaps better than any other I've heard.  If you value Naim's typical strengths, yet also want all the other spatial things as well, then the Naim DAC is hard to beat.  

Richard Dane posted:

Emre posted:

One thing i dont get it is nDac, what does it bring to streamer/dac like NDX ? NDX has a excellent dac already, i would understand if it is chord dave - something different - but nDAc? Will nDAC is a better dac then naim streamers? 

The Naim DAC is fair way ahead of the NDX - not surprising really as it uses selected PCM1704K DAC and Naim's fully discreet analogue stage, something usually reserved for the CDS3 player, NDS and CD555.  

Cards on the table, having owned a Naim DAC when it first came out then been seduced by other, newer, more fashionable things, I've actually come back to the Naim DAC recently and I have to say that what it does well, particularly when it has a XPS2/555PS/DR attached, it does perhaps better than any other I've heard.  If you value Naim's typical strengths, yet also want all the other spatial things as well, then the Naim DAC is hard to beat.  

This sounds a familiar path to mine...

G

İ did not know that, then it is a very good value and an upgrade for all streamers maybe except NDS, i wish my CD2X had a digital output but it is an old model 

Richard Dane posted:

Emre posted:

One thing i dont get it is nDac, what does it bring to streamer/dac like NDX ? NDX has a excellent dac already, i would understand if it is chord dave - something different - but nDAc? Will nDAC is a better dac then naim streamers? 

The Naim DAC is fair way ahead of the NDX - not surprising really as it uses selected PCM1704K DAC and Naim's fully discreet analogue stage, something usually reserved for the CDS3 player, NDS and CD555.  

Cards on the table, having owned a Naim DAC when it first came out then been seduced by other, newer, more fashionable things, I've actually come back to the Naim DAC recently and I have to say that what it does well, particularly when it has a XPS2/555PS/DR attached, it does perhaps better than any other I've heard.  If you value Naim's typical strengths, yet also want all the other spatial things as well, then the Naim DAC is hard to beat.  

No Argument Here Mr Richard Dane:

""RICHARD DANEADMINISTRATOR

1/18/1610:10 AM

MDFdude posted:

 so nDAC = NDS DAC section ?

Yes, and no...  

much is shared, such as the selected Burr Brown PCM1704K DAC chips, 40bit Sharc processor etc.. and both have a fully discrete analogue output stage.  The NDS goes further with no internal PSU and the mass loaded suspended boards. ""

Allante93!

Thanks guys for the feedback. Both Simon and Richard made a strong case for each dac.

Looking at Naim support for the Naim DAC, reviving it with firmware update keeping it alive I am more incline to a used NDAC. 

Both in the naim sound signature and aesthetically.

Only worry is Naim releasing a new DAC soon...

If you're thinking of a Mojo, you could always buy a used Hugo and if anything changes on the Naim front you can sell on the Hugo for no loss.

Interestingly the NDAC offers full bus decoupling between digital and analogue with an off board PSU, where as with the NDS you would need two separate off board PSUs to achieve the same effect.

In the Naim component world PSUs are important - and that is a great advantage of the NDAC. The SHARC FPGA that is used in the NDAC and NDS are slightly different in implementation  with the NDS using local memory and the NDAC using separate memory (so I understand) thereby slightly increasing the ground and E/M noise floor with the NDAC. I believe this could be  audible but also helps give the NDAC its organic feel which was rather attractive with the previous version of firmware.

Simon

kaydee6 posted:

Thanks guys for the feedback. Both Simon and Richard made a strong case for each dac.

Looking at Naim support for the Naim DAC, reviving it with firmware update keeping it alive I am more incline to a used NDAC. 

Both in the naim sound signature and aesthetically.

Only worry is Naim releasing a new DAC soon...

Kaydee - you can't let any imminent product release put you off - life is too short.. The key thing is to listen.. the NDAC is great at bass lines and drive - but yes for me is not strongest spatially (think Orchestras and Cathedrals) and for fine timbral details and nuance - which is what I get off on..... but you have to decide - you certainly can't go wrong with any devices mentioned - but you might as well choose the device that focusses on what you like best.. because every device has its strengths and weaknesses.

Simon

Hi Simon, Hugo has no sonic weaknesses at all 

But sure some other weaknesses.....

İt is an excellent headphone amp if you are into headphones,  somebody should test chord dave as well, ndac+streamer+ps costs more than "state of the art" dac/pre dave, so naim digital sources can be quiete expensive, not my nac272☺ 

I have not heard any of the Chord DACs.  But I'll just emphasize that the recent firmware update for the nDAC really is a major step forward in SQ (including spatial detail), so keep this in mind when auditioning a used unit.

Currently listening to an nDAC on home demo for a few days. It's been on for about 30 minutes so far...it's a keeper. Does that help...?

kaydee6 posted:

Thanks guys for the feedback. Both Simon and Richard made a strong case for each dac.

Looking at Naim support for the Naim DAC, reviving it with firmware update keeping it alive I am more incline to a used NDAC. 

Both in the naim sound signature and aesthetically.

Only worry is Naim releasing a new DAC soon...

Worry? I don't understand, the NDAC is already  an excellent DAC. Naim don't update their products unless they are much better.

And by the way Naim just updated the NDAC.

So no need to hesitate to buy an NDAC at all.

I had the newest naim dac "Naim DAC V1" and it was an easy decision to replace it with my chord hugo.

Although I have not heard the smaller mojo, after reading countless positive reviews on the mojo (and all other new chord DACs) , IMHO I would choose the much cheaper mojo over a naim DAC v1

Eazy, we're talking about the Naim DAC, not the DAC-V1, quite a different kettle of fish...

Richard Dane posted:

Eazy, we're talking about the Naim DAC, not the DAC-V1, quite a different kettle of fish...

Yes but I have not heard the older Naim DAC so i thought I would give my opinion on the naims newer- DAC V1 since I had the opportunity to compare both DAC V1 and HUGO at home.

It would be great if naim released a new DAC, I do prefer the look and styling of Naim but sound quality for me came first.

Richard Dane posted:

Eazy, we're talking about the Naim DAC, not the DAC-V1, quite a different kettle of fish...

To say the least! 

Msrp!! USD

Ndac $4,395 

Dac V1 $2,595

Chord Hugo $2,195

2nd Hand Ndac$1800

Chord Mojo, $599

In the world we live in, Usually, not alway's there is a relationship between Price and Quality! 

Repeat, Not always!!!!!

Allante93! 

"It would be great if naim released a new DAC, I do prefer the look and styling of Naim but sound quality for me came first."  Ditto, I really wanted an Ndac and really wanted to like it, and I did, but the Hugo was so much better I couldn't ignore it.  Hopefully at some point an Ndac V2 will come out and I can use my Hugo for mobile duties