Adding DAC to NDX. Go for used NDAC or new Chord Mojo?

Please don't take my comment that seriously, but if it were me, those power hungry briks would be gone, replaced by a choice of whatever you prefer from Sonus Faber Olympica, Proacs response, Kudos Super 20A, Neats, Ovators or Dynaudios and back to a single passive 250 DR. I just heard a 272/250/Proac D40 system and sounded very good to me.

Any any money gained would be put towards that Supercap and NDAC/XPS2. I never heard your system, but seems very speaker led choice to me.

But to each their own. Over the years, since you trust Richard Dane, he always advised "Source First".

So 272/XPSDR/250DR makes a lot of sense to me nowadays. Simple, hassle free and musical.

I do agree with Adam, don't lose any eyeballs in the near future

At the very least, why not NACA5 instead of K20???

analogmusic posted:

Please don't take my comment that seriously, but if it were me, those power hungry briks would be gone, replaced by a choice of whatever you prefer from Sonus Faber Olympica, Proacs response, Kudos Super 20A, Neats, Ovators or Dynaudios and back to a single passive 250 DR. I just heard a 272/250/Proac D40 system and sounded very good to me.

Any any money gained would be put towards that Supercap and NDAC/XPS2. I never heard your system, but seems very speaker led choice to me.

But to each their own. Over the years, since you trust Richard Dane, he always advised "Source First".

So 272/XPSDR/250DR makes a lot of sense to me nowadays. Simple, hassle free and musical.

I do agree with Adam, don't lose any eyeballs in the near future

At the very least, why not NACA5 instead of K20???

If I were Allante93 I'd be asking if you've heard tri-amped Briks in action before making your observation...

Above all else speakers give any system its overall character, and whilst source-first may be a good ideal, it's no good having the best source if you've got crap speakers, while if you've got speakers that sound lovely to you, in your room, if they're good enough you then hear and appreciate every improvement made at the front end (though these days a great quality front end can be far less costly than even only a few years ago). It's fine to start with lesser speakers as long as you like them, but once you've got something special it''ll take something special to replace them. Of course that's just an observation, and not to suggest that Allante93 wouldn't like any of the suggested models as a replacement.

Innocent Bystander posted:

analogmusic posted:

 

If I were Allante93 I'd be asking if you've heard tri-amped Briks in action before making your observation...

Above all else speakers give any system its overall character, and whilst source-first may be a good ideal, it's no good having the best source if you've got crap speakers, while if you've got speakers that sound lovely to you, in your room, if they're good enough you then hear and appreciate every improvement made at the front end (though these days a great quality front end can be far less costly than even only a few years ago). It's fine to start with lesser speakers as long as you like them, but once you've got something special it''ll take something special to replace them. Of course that's just an observation, and not to suggest that Allante93 wouldn't like any of the suggested models as a replacement.

You've read me quite well Innocent! The Answer to the first question question is no, I just Tri- Amped my Briks for the first time last Fall I think. 
However, I been with these briks for a life time, and I do like them. 

It's a funny thing, kind of hard to explain, but for those who have been Aktiv, it's hard to do Passive!  

That's it, the Speakers, Take the Crossover out of the equation and wow!  The purist connection from amp to drivers, combined with an external XO.

But again, that why so few experience Active Systems, the cost factor, not to mention the complications that come along with wiring and set-up!

But I'm hooked on the Green Dope, and  headed towards an Active Naim System!

Not the Best but one That I can live with! 

Over the last 20 years or so:

Passive LK 280 driving Briks No heat Problems! 

Passive Bi amped Briks with Spark on Woofers & Mids, LK 280 on Tweeters

Full Blown Aktiv, with  LP 12  and Ghenki Front End,  Still would be there today, but Linn don't repair ancient gear!

Then came Naim!!

Passive Bi Amped Briks:  200 & 250.2  Heat Problems, Amps are not as quiet as LK 280's but more Musical

Passive Tri-Amped Briks: More head Room, Amps still get warm, but No Thermal shut down has occurred. 

Eyeballing SCDR, because this leads to the Holy Grail, Active Briks! 

End Game:  Cdx2/555PS > 282DR > Snaxo 362/SCDR > 3 x 250.2's > Briks! 

Mind you!  Primare Pre 30 > Arcam P1 mono Blocks > Vienna Acoustic Baby Grands, Award winning Speakers 2008, with King Cobra XLR IC's, ain't Bad as a second System! 

But Yes you've read me quite well, and I am content with the sound of My Briks!  

This Very Moment Grace Jones Slave to the Rhythm! 

Enjoy your Music, forget about the how, and focus on the Why! 

Out! 

Allante93! 

analogmusic posted:

Please don't take my comment that seriously, but if it were me, those power hungry briks would be gone, replaced by a choice of whatever you prefer from Sonus Faber Olympica, Proacs response, Kudos Super 20A, Neats, Ovators or Dynaudios and back to a single passive 250 DR. I just heard a 272/250/Proac D40 system and sounded very good to me.

Trust Me, I would never do that! LOL! 

BTW, have you ever heard of a company Called Arcam, read up on P1 Mono Blocks. 

Also another company called Vienna Acoustics, read up on The Baby Grands Stereophile Speaker of the Year 2008.

Also, by any chance a Swedish Company called Primare, read up on the Pre 30. 

I really enjoy the Round Room, Very Nice Imaging, close to the Sun Room, But when I want to go to the Club, and don't have the Cash, I had to the Music Room Flat Earth Territorry, The Briks!

There are going for as little as 4.5K over here USD!  I know you're not suppose to mix them, but I would put the DR on the Woofer! 

Who knows, but like you say there's no substitute for hands on experience!!!!!!

Out! 

Now go listen to some Music LOL!!!

Allante93! 

Allante - you can always email me (email isnin my profile) but how do we handle the voltage difference between Europe and the US?

Adam

I suppose your briks are fine, but having the system to drive them, well that is another huge expense.

I have heard a few active systems, and to me the extra expense isn't worth it. It isn't like veils are lifted, ok the bass is a lot more articulated, but I can live with the compromise.

I haven't heard your briks, but have heard some very good speakers, like the top notch Sonus Faber Stradivari, I suppose we are all looking for something personal in our music, for me it is the rhythmic drive that is of upmost importance, I love to be able to hear the rhythms very clearly, the way Naim amps and good "fast" - time coherent and time aligned speakers can sound.

Nowadays these kinds of speakers from Kudos, Neat, and Dynaudio, (and others),  use first order crossovers, which are "almost" as good as having active speakers.... less expense, less hassle, and more money to put towards a better source and preamp.

a system can only be as good as the source attached to it, so going active exposes even more ruthlessly the source.  

analogmusic posted:

a system can only be as good as the source attached to it, so going active exposes even more ruthlessly the source.  

True. However speakers characterise the sound more than any other component, so it is important for someone to have speakers they like - and if you have the opportunity to get fantastic sounding speakers even if your source is less than perfect, you can have a system that is extremely enjoyable and you know will get all the more enjoyment whenever you improve the source. Otherwise the theoretical ideal would be for everyone to start with an NDS/XPS or Melco N1Z/Dave etc, with crap amp and speakers and gradually build something they can start like to listen to.

From a personal point of view, I could not live with, for example, speakers unable of reproducing at least down to 40Hz unattenuated, some of the music I like having significant content there: listening only to overtones on a speaker capable of only going down to maybe 80-100Hz I just find unsatisfying (although on music with no real bass they can sound great). 

I'm not saying any way is right, but there are different approackhes, and following 'source first' as a religeon doesn't suit all. it also depends on how committed someone may be to upgrading, including the economics and number of steps of so doing.

Agree with innocent, speaker should be the building block of a system. Get it right with one that matches your taste first and the rest of the system will continue to excite and improve as you change the source and amp. Also any speakers that do not produce decent bass does not interest me as I need my music to have body and weight. My present speaker is a pair of rose wood harbeth shl5.

kaydee6 posted:

Agree with innocent, speaker should be the building block of a system. Get it right with one that matches your taste first and the rest of the system will continue to excite and improve as you change the source and amp. Also any speakers that do not produce decent bass does not interest me as I need my music to have body and weight. My present speaker is a pair of rose wood harbeth shl5.

But how do you go about picking a speaker out of context not knowing what the other components might be? Even to buy first, they still have to be hooked up to something in the demonstration and the results you heard that led to the buying decision are only replicated with the same electronics.

I agree that a speaker sets the tone and personality of a system more than other components but a system is ultimately limited by the potential of the source. Ideally these things are chosen together when building a new system. And while it's true that a system is only as good as the weakest link, a better source and amp can get the best from modest speakers but the reverse is never true. 

feeling_zen posted:

kaydee6 posted:

Agree with innocent, speaker should be the building block of a system. Get it right with one that matches your taste first and the rest of the system will continue to excite and improve as you change the source and amp. Also any speakers that do not produce decent bass does not interest me as I need my music to have body and weight. My present speaker is a pair of rose wood harbeth shl5.

But how do you go about picking a speaker out of context not knowing what the other components might be? Even to buy first, they still have to be hooked up to something in the demonstration and the results you heard that led to the buying decision are only replicated with the same electronics.

I agree that a speaker sets the tone and personality of a system more than other components but a system is ultimately limited by the potential of the source. Ideally these things are chosen together when building a new system. And while it's true that a system is only as good as the weakest link, a better source and amp can get the best from modest speakers but the reverse is never true. 

You nailed it when you said the speakers set the tone and personality. One need to listen and even own many pair of speakers before finding the right speaker. Once this is found, one can go crazy with the source upgrade. If the tone is not right, it will be wrong even with higher source. 

My own experience includes the following speaker brands:

Totem

ProAc

Joseph Audio

Audionote

Avantgarde

Harbeth

Vandesteen

Rogers

ATC

I ranked the Harbeth and Totem as the my type of tone and personality.

And how does the above help with a DAC selection?

I like a lot of things but they don't help with selecting a digital to analogue convertor. For instance I like black cherries...

Yeah let's get back to the dac. 

Somebody should, or must test chord Dave with naim streamers! 

Well the NDAC has the typical Naim values, energetic, timing, pace, rhythmic, if that is what you like, then it is a complete no brainer. add an XPS and all the DAC you could ever need....

Emre posted:

Somebody should, or must test chord Dave with naim streamers! 

Well, several of us have listened to DAVE, fed by a melco unit, playing into 552/active 500/DBL.

We all preferred DAVE's predecessor, as DAVE was a bit bright, relentless and slightly tiring to listen to in that system on that day.

Ah, well.

Best regards, FT

kaydee6 posted:

You nailed it when you said the speakers set the tone and personality. One need to listen and even own many pair of speakers before finding the right speaker. Once this is found, one can go crazy with the source upgrade. If the tone is not right, it will be wrong even with higher source. 

There are so many ways to hear speakers and at least start to identify what you like that I don't see what the problem is. many people also study reviews, which can be useful provided The newbie studies enough to be able to interpret and start to relate to his/her own tastes.

It is also not uncommon to find that within a given range you might really like the top one, though it is so far out of reach even secondhand that it's a non-starter, but find there's enough of the character you like in a lesser model, which can then provide a temporary stepping-stone.

As an example of a path, for me, with a tight budget, diy was the initial answer after a lot of study, and the result far from great even though to me (and all my friends at the time) it sounded amazing. Another diy venture improved, then I did some auditioning of speakers in what in today's money I guess would have been about the £2-£2500 bracket. Into two dealer's, simply quoting budget, and hearing wll they had, listening to something like a dozen different pairs, and most I rejected within very few minutes because they did nothing for me. I came away with IMF TLS50s, and was supremely happy. That was the style of sound I loved. I  later upgraded to IMF's top of the range (secondhand) which had the same character but were better in every way, and they did me until this year when I changed to PMC EB2i which also have the same character (PMC chief designer loved IMF speakers, which were the inspiration for his company, and that same character lives in the bigger PMC speaker). I can do even better further up the PMC range, but that's subject to lottery. My source improved sharply after the first couple of years, and has been at least a reasonable level, and What I have now seems very good- I don't doubt I could do better and get even more out of the speakers, and I am presently checking out one possible step.

analogmusic posted:

Well the NDAC has the typical Naim values, energetic, timing, pace, rhythmic, if that is what you like, then it is a complete no brainer. add an XPS and all the DAC you could ever need....

I thought the Naim 'signature' emphasis of certain parts of the music was introduced by the preamp, therefore with Naim amplification giving the 'Naim Sound', which indeed it is said to do with, say vinyl source, so for digital a Naim source would not be necessary for the Naim sound. So surely a Naim renderer with other DAC, Non-Naim renderer with Naim DAC, or Non-Naim renderer-DAC should still give Naim sound with Naim amplification? Brand loyalty is another matter, of course.