UnitiServe v Melco, plus system upgrade; advice needed.

limited market product .  ive compared listing on 3 dealers systems same album that i know very well difference  NONE

Innocent Bystander posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:.

Too late now I'm afraid. The stuff is already stashed away in the garage, awaiting the builders. 

Builders to install a tap?  Doesn't even need a plumber, but the mind boggles at the typical builder installing it!

It's being done as part of a complete kitchen refurb - new flooring, new ceiling, new electrics, units, worktops, water softener etc etc, so the plumbing follows the building work. Even I realise that one asks a plumber to fit a tap.

What I love about this forum is the way threads morph into discussions so far removed from the original post - great fun!

I would still appreciate comments on 250DR or 300DR when it comes to driving the ProAc D48r speakers I'm lusting after! Does anyone out there own these speakers, and, if so, what are they driving them with? Would perhaps the D30r suffice in my proposed system? I am a bass lover, but only when tight as the hamster's proverbial, with no boom or resonance whatsoever. I love my D20r setup, but want a bigger soundstage. Any thoughts?

tonym posted:

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Dont get Franks "can't carry a tune". What Melco does is exactly the same thing as a good turntable where the streamer/DAC acts as a tone arm/pick up. 

Every thing becomes calm & even more important, quit! The black inkness is amazing. BUT there is differences between the Melco models.  

//Jonas

Frank's  a Naim dealer Jonas, I suppose he's got to say that.  My Melco carries a tune very well indeed, and sounds better than any equivalent Naim offering I've heard. An exceptional bit of kit.

...and you're a Melco owner so I guess you've got to say that! Honestly, what a thing to say! We had the Melco in for us to consider for our stock. I forget which model but it was the early days and around £7k. It couldn't carry a tune and the US annihilated it, so we said thanks but no thanks.

That said, I have since heard the Melcos in unfamiliar non-Naim systems, and there the Melcos seemed to be doing a fine job. Or at least the systems seemed to be working. So who knows? All I can do is report our findings, and I find it disappointing that you should cast aspersions this way.

Frank.

Timmo1341 posted:

What I love about this forum is the way threads morph into discussions so far removed from the original post - great fun!

I would still appreciate comments on 250DR or 300DR when it comes to driving the ProAc D48r speakers I'm lusting after! Does anyone out there own these speakers, and, if so, what are they driving them with? Would perhaps the D30r suffice in my proposed system? I am a bass lover, but only when tight as the hamster's proverbial, with no boom or resonance whatsoever. I love my D20r setup, but want a bigger soundstage. Any thoughts?

Don't all ProAcs have a more behind the speakers depth of soundstage,   Maybe your hankering for a different type that projects  forward more .  Naim are more cranium focused and hold your ears in a vice.  PMC are maybe too forward aswell for your ears with Naim.  Perhaps something in the middle like ATC or ART.

TOBYJUG posted:

Don't all ProAcs have a more behind the speakers depth of soundstage,   Maybe your hankering for a different type that projects  forward more .  Naim are more cranium focused and hold your ears in a vice.  PMC are maybe too forward aswell for your ears with Naim.  Perhaps something in the middle like ATC or ART.

I don't know about Proac, and no idea if this helps, but the bigger PMCs (e.g EB1i, MB2SE) have a wonderfully expansive soundstage, way beyond the speakers. Not true of the Fact 12, which I found relatively constrained by comparison. Haven't listened to the lesser ones.

Most ProAc, more so than many other good speakers, indeed can offer a very good three dimensional and well focused soundstage presentation if well placed i.e. at least two feet away from front wall and three or four from side walls.

Chag - 

Frank Abela posted:

tonym posted:

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Dont get Franks "can't carry a tune". What Melco does is exactly the same thing as a good turntable where the streamer/DAC acts as a tone arm/pick up. 

Every thing becomes calm & even more important, quit! The black inkness is amazing. BUT there is differences between the Melco models.  

//Jonas

Frank's  a Naim dealer Jonas, I suppose he's got to say that.  My Melco carries a tune very well indeed, and sounds better than any equivalent Naim offering I've heard. An exceptional bit of kit.

...and you're a Melco owner so I guess you've got to say that! Honestly, what a thing to say! We had the Melco in for us to consider for our stock. I forget which model but it was the early days and around £7k. It couldn't carry a tune and the US annihilated it, so we said thanks but no thanks.

That said, I have since heard the Melcos in unfamiliar non-Naim systems, and there the Melcos seemed to be doing a fine job. Or at least the systems seemed to be working. So who knows? All I can do is report our findings, and I find it disappointing that you should cast aspersions this way.

Frank.

I don't sell Melco, so there's a difference. Well, the Melco works an absolute treat in my mostly Naim system, and there's no loss of tune or PRaT. How to explain your experience then? Maybe you were using SL interconnects. They certainly killed the music in my system.

tonym posted:

Frank Abela posted:

tonym posted:

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Dont get Franks "can't carry a tune". What Melco does is exactly the same thing as a good turntable where the streamer/DAC acts as a tone arm/pick up. 

Every thing becomes calm & even more important, quit! The black inkness is amazing. BUT there is differences between the Melco models.  

//Jonas

Frank's  a Naim dealer Jonas, I suppose he's got to say that.  My Melco carries a tune very well indeed, and sounds better than any equivalent Naim offering I've heard. An exceptional bit of kit.

...and you're a Melco owner so I guess you've got to say that! Honestly, what a thing to say! We had the Melco in for us to consider for our stock. I forget which model but it was the early days and around £7k. It couldn't carry a tune and the US annihilated it, so we said thanks but no thanks.

That said, I have since heard the Melcos in unfamiliar non-Naim systems, and there the Melcos seemed to be doing a fine job. Or at least the systems seemed to be working. So who knows? All I can do is report our findings, and I find it disappointing that you should cast aspersions this way.

Frank.

I don't sell Melco, so there's a difference. Well, the Melco works an absolute treat in my mostly Naim system, and there's no loss of tune or PRaT. How to explain your experience then? Maybe you were using SL interconnects. They certainly killed the music in my system.

+1 I have also heard the Melco already in another Naim setup as well and it's a groundbreaking improvement, so puzzled how this wouldn't reflect on your situation.

I may have mentioned this in another thread - but if you're looking to move away from the UnitiServe, you need to consider both software as well as hardware changes:

• Change to server software (e.g., from UnitiServe / DigiFi to MinimServer or Asset UPnP) may necessitate change in file format / tagging, along with its own set of comparisons / optimizations
• Comparisons between server hardware running the same software (e.g., PC running MinimServer on Windows or Linux / Mac running MinimServer / Melco running MinimServer) may require their own optimizations, per platform

Once you get these dialed in, it's much easier to find a long-term solution you're happy with.

Timmo1341 posted:

Having been a member of the Naim gang for over a year now, and what a thoroughly enjoyable year it's been, I'm now seriously contemplating my next move.

My Unitiserve, which was used initially to rip my 1500 cd collection to its 2TB hard drive, and currently acts as my server to SuperUniti, Unitiqute and Muso, is back with Naim having suffered a hard drive failure. All is backed up to a Synology 2 X 3TB NAS, so no great drama.

i have been saving hard, and may be about to come into a reasonably sized windfall, and would like to use this opportunity to improve my already thoroughly satisfying listening experience. As I no longer totally trust the US, I wonder if swapping it out for a solid state Melco might make sense, both sonically and reliability wise?

In addition, having done a little auditioning and much forum reading(!), I'm seriously contemplating upgrading the SU to a N272 and power amp, and upgrading my ProAc D20r speakers to D48r. (I have auditioned PMC, but they just don't do it for me I'm afraid),

I do have limitations on the box count front, no more than four. I am considering a 555PS for the 272, and a NAP 300 amp. I will never have room for seperate streamer, pre-amp and associated power supplies, but am thinking ahead to when I may possibly want to upgrade the 272 for any future successor.

Next, I would like to once again own a turntable, and resurrect my vinyl collection. I like the look, sound and price of the RP10 with Apheta 2 MC cartridge. What thoughts on the appropriate Naim phono stage and power supply?

Last, but not least, I would like to ensure I have the best cabling I can afford, as I don't intend doing this again for a long, long time!! Much has been written about Super Lumina. The Hungry Halibut, who seems to be astonishingly knowledgeable and whose opinion appears to be well respected, advocates a SL 'full loom' for my type of system. Is this a 'safe' choice, or should I try to audition Chord or other alternatives.

Apologies for so many questions, and such a long post, but your thoughts, comments, advice would be most welcome before I eventually trust my own ears (and wallet!) and take the plunge.

Thanks in advance

Tim

If you are comfortable with your current streaming approach, you could first focus on upgrading your streamer + amplifications (272 + XPSDR + 250DR seems to be a very strong combination) and SL cabling. I have tested a SL interconnect in my very simple and straightforward setup (bare Naim DAC and SN2) and it brought a subtle but significant improvement.

I would suggest using MinimServer as a UPnP server. You should be able to run it directly on your Synology or on a computer of your choice connected to your LAN, e.g., on a Raspberry Pi. Provided that you have tagged your music collection according to your specific needs, MinimServer will significantly improve the way you browse, select and enjoy your music.

Once streaming and amplification are settled, you could turn your attention to the speakers. At this point, you should also be in a better position for judging the effects of adding a Melco into the equation.

Just my two cents, of course. I have no direct experience with either US, SU, 272, 250DR or Melco. Enjoy the journey!

We had no SL in there. It is indeed puzzling since we were very much up for listening to a higher priced server like the Melco. It would have slotted straight into our portfolio and future aims. To say we were disappointed would be an understatement.

Frank.

Frank Abela posted:

We had no SL in there. It is indeed puzzling since we were very much up for listening to a higher priced server like the Melco. It would have slotted straight into our portfolio and future aims. To say we were disappointed would be an understatement.

Frank.

Well, then that's a complete mystery. It's so completely opposite to my, and other's, experiences with the Melco I can only assume something else was wrong in the system. To actually post that "The US annihilated it", apart from the ridiculous hyperbole, confirms it.

It made the Melco sound broken, clearly. My local Audio T is very enthusiast about the Melco - maybe they need to be near the sea to work well. 

tonym posted:

Frank Abela posted:

We had no SL in there. It is indeed puzzling since we were very much up for listening to a higher priced server like the Melco. It would have slotted straight into our portfolio and future aims. To say we were disappointed would be an understatement.

Frank.

Well, then that's a complete mystery. It's so completely opposite to my, and other's, experiences with the Melco I can only assume something else was wrong in the system. To actually post that "The US annihilated it", apart from the ridiculous hyperbole, confirms it.

Why mut you assume that there was a fault with a system? Soomeone found Meloco to be worse than UnitiServe. Life goes on.

@Frank Abela: perhaps you could give the Melcos another try?

@tonym: perhaps you could give the SL another try?

I have never had the opportunity to try a Melco and, even in my simple system, a SL interconnector brought a subtle but important improvement. I can very well imagine that effects can be different in different systems and that different ears hear differently. Still, I find it difficult to think in terms of killing the music or of one option annihilating another one. Also, I would not necessarily compare the USs and the Melcos: they are quite different devices, designed at different points in time to perform slightly different tasks. I would probably not buy either, but that's another story.  

Adam Zielinski posted:

tonym posted:

Frank Abela posted:

We had no SL in there. It is indeed puzzling since we were very much up for listening to a higher priced server like the Melco. It would have slotted straight into our portfolio and future aims. To say we were disappointed would be an understatement.

Frank.

Well, then that's a complete mystery. It's so completely opposite to my, and other's, experiences with the Melco I can only assume something else was wrong in the system. To actually post that "The US annihilated it", apart from the ridiculous hyperbole, confirms it.

Why mut you assume that there was a fault with a system? Soomeone found Meloco to be worse than UnitiServe. Life goes on.

 

Haven't got a problem with someone preferring the sound of something else, but two things - no one else has experienced a loss of musicality with the Melco, and a US "annihilated" it? Oh come on!

what a familiar discussion! and the underlying issues are always the same. our systems, listening environment,  mains, ears, preferences -- etc etc are different -- and other than faults -- this can easily lead to divergent perceptions.

enjoy...

ken

ken c posted:

what a familiar discussion! and the underlying issues are always the same. our systems, listening environment,  mains, ears, preferences -- etc etc are different -- and other than faults -- this can easily lead to divergent perceptions.

enjoy...

ken

Couldn't agree more, we all hear things differently.

I tried a friend's Melco in my system, and wasn't convinced. 

It seemed to take away some of the drive that I love about the Naim sound, so I decided against obtaining one.

I had a chat with my regular Naim dealer a few days later, and discovered the they had independently come to the same conclusion.

That said, it sounds great down at my mate's house, in tandem with a Linn streamer, and Lejonklou amplification.

So the only conclusion is that there is no "one size fits all" solution.