Has Anybody Tried 2 Hicap DR on the NAC282

Haven't any experience of the DR versions, but I have had 2x HiCaps on a 282. Didn't find two significantly better than one. Used the second to power my Stageline, rather than the 282 power output. Replacing the HiCap with a Supercap was a significant improvement. So perhaps the same follows with the DR versions.

Everybody will try to convince you that you should upgrade to SuperCap but in my humble opinion 2 hicaps are far better.

Mr. Jensen posted:

Everybody will try to convince you that you should upgrade to SuperCap but in my humble opinion 2 hicaps are far better.

Is your opinion based on experience? I've tried all  the PSU options (DR versions excepted) and I can't say I agree with you. There have been many others who believe the Supercap is by far the better performing PSU on the 282. But each to their own. As is the usual advice, Ryder should try to audition the options himself.

This one again....? The OP raises a reasonable question. The answer is the same - a far more expensive PSU is better. My experience is that adding a 2nd HiCap has a very definite effect. The SC may be better still, I couldn't say - as my  finances did not permit this to be considered - but did permit acquiring a good, used pre-loved HC. 

Is a 2nd HC worth trying? Yes. Compare vs a SC by all means - but remember the price differential.

If it helps, I added a second Hicap to an 82 and there was hardly any difference. I wouldn't bother. 

Thanks for the responses. I have constantly read about the Supercap DR or non-DR outperforming the Hicap DR on a 282 every time, but I'm not interested in the Supercap. I'm just interested in 1 vs 2 Hicaps, specifically the Hicap DR as I got to know the Hicap2 is not as good as the DR with some folks getting worse results with 2 Hicaps. It wouldn't make too much sense to have worse results with 2 Hicaps (compared to one) since the 2 Hicap option is an upgrade path with Naim but I guess that can happen with variables such as listening preference, setup and quality of recording taken into consideration. 

What are the perceived differences or changes the additional Hicap will bring to the 282. I'm trying to figure out if the *improvement* or change with the additional Hicap is speaker or system dependent, or it is more toward a case of YMMV kind of thing with listening taste or preference being the deciding factor.

I was thinking if it possible for 1 Hicap to sound better than 2 on the 282, since that would be suggesting something like the 252 sounding better than the 552. 

ryder. posted:

Thanks for the responses. I have constantly read about the Supercap DR or non-DR outperforming the Hicap DR on a 282 every time, but I'm not interested in the Supercap. I'm just interested in 1 vs 2 Hicaps, specifically the Hicap DR as I got to know the Hicap2 is not as good as the DR with some folks getting worse results with 2 Hicaps. It wouldn't make too much sense to have worse results with 2 Hicaps compared to one since the option is an upgrade path with Naim but I guess that can happen with the variables such as listening preference, setup and quality of recording taken into consideration. 

What are the perceived differences or changes the additional Hicap will bring to the 282. I'm trying to figure out if the *improvement* or change with the additional Hicap is speaker or system dependent, or it is more toward a case of YMMV kind of thing with listening taste or preference being the deciding factor.

I was thinking if it possible for 1 Hicap to sound better than 2 on the 282, since that would be suggesting something like the 252 sounding better than the 552. 

Can't say I agree with your analogy, but that's another discussion. All I know is that of all my "upgrades" 1 to 2 HiCaps on a 282 was the most disappointing. Maybe a DR HiCap will get you closer to the non DR Supercap performance. Can't you audition the various options. By the way I thought you have a 202. Any reason for the post?

sheffieldgraham posted

I was thinking if it possible for 1 Hicap to sound better than 2 on the 282, since that would be suggesting something like the 252 sounding better than the 552. 

Can't say I agree with your analogy, but that's another discussion. All I know is that of all my "upgrades" 1 to 2 HiCaps on a 282 was the most disappointing. Maybe a DR HiCap will get you closer to the non DR Supercap performance. Can't you audition the various options. By the way I thought you have a 202. Any reason for the post?

The analogy is just an example in this context of 1 vs 2 Hicaps as I am aware it is quite impossible for the 552 to sound worse than the 252. I recently added the 282 in my system about 2 weeks ago. I am not based in the UK and home audition is not possible at the place where I live.

Maybe instead of buying a second HiCapDR you could part exchange your 200 for a 250 DR; or is that a step too far?

This could be less speculative performance wise than two HiCaps.

Hi Ryder,

       In my experience, adding a second Hi-Cap PS to a NAC 282 is certainly an upgrade.   What it tends to do is further open up the sound of the NAC 282, making it even easier to hear parts of the music lower in amplitude in your favorite recordings.    It also widens the perceived soundstage, and helps further the process that adding the first Hi-Cap certainly introduces.     For many owners of a NAC 82 or a NAC 282 more recently, the addition of a second Hi-Cap has been a popular option.    In many cases, it will represent the least expensive potential upgrade available in a Naim system, but obviously this is a general observation, not necessarily true for you.

       If you are curious, and haven't already done so, you can experiment with your NAC 282 being powered only by your NAP 200 power amp and then add back your Hi-Cap DR to really gain a direct experience of what this popular upgrade offers.    I would say that the first Hi-Cap is a bigger upgrade than adding a second, but the second is certainly helpful.     I would not advise mixing the older Hi-Cap or even a Hi-Cap 2 with your Hi-Cap DR, you will get the best results by adding a second DR generation Hi-Cap to the NAC 282.   

       As noted above, some users of NAC 282's who are very strongly vinyl oriented, have found that an interesting use of a second Hi-Cap is to power a Naim phono stage with it directly- provided you use a Stageline or a Superline.    So, if your budget allows it, there are multiple ways to use two Hi-Cap DR's in your system, so it is certainly a viable way to improve your system.     In my experience, the only system configuration that will significantly outperform two Hi-Caps on a NAC 282 is the use of a Supercap 2, or better yet, a Supercap DR, but as noted above, this is a significantly more expensive alternative and may not be a comfortable fit for you.

        Good luck in your search for better sound at home,

        Bruce

Isheffieldgraham posted:

Maybe instead of buying a second HiCapDR you could part exchange your 200 for a 250 DR; or is that a step too far?

This could be less speculative performance wise than two HiCaps.

 I regret not going for the SC, but in 2014 the Forum was screaming, subtle differences between SC and HCDR, if any.

Of course, the cost factor did play a part in my decision. Same dilemma, no chance to demo.

However, going on two years with:

Cdx2--+282--+HCDR--+3 x 250.2--+Briks

Ain't Bad, point being, with all the 250DR hype, Sheffield's suggestion appears to be a worthwhile consideration.

282--+HCDR--+250DR

Ain't a shabby rig, and down the road SCDR.

JMHO!

Allante93!

I found a second HC to be a very worthwhile improvement to the 282 when I did it. I was taken aback actually as - given the generally so so comments on the forum - I did not have great expectations (Why did I do it I hear you ask - well there was a period when Audio T were offering very good discounts on ex demo models when the DR power supplies were hitting the shop floor).

sheffieldgraham posted:

Maybe instead of buying a second HiCapDR you could part exchange your 200 for a 250 DR; or is that a step too far?

This could be less speculative performance wise than two HiCaps.

Actually I have the NAP250DR and Hicap DR on order. Currently I have an aftermarket PSU with dual Hicap outputs and have compared between 1 and 2 Hicaps. Since it is not a Naim unit, I will refrain from sharing my experience on the results.

I have said to myself before I committed to the 282/250/Hicap DR. This setup will be my first and last with Naim. No more going up the upgrade ladder and I will live up to this claim.

bdnyc posted:

Hi Ryder,

       In my experience, adding a second Hi-Cap PS to a NAC 282 is certainly an upgrade.   What it tends to do is further open up the sound of the NAC 282, making it even easier to hear parts of the music lower in amplitude in your favorite recordings.    It also widens the perceived soundstage, and helps further the process that adding the first Hi-Cap certainly introduces.     For many owners of a NAC 82 or a NAC 282 more recently, the addition of a second Hi-Cap has been a popular option.    In many cases, it will represent the least expensive potential upgrade available in a Naim system, but obviously this is a general observation, not necessarily true for you.

       If you are curious, and haven't already done so, you can experiment with your NAC 282 being powered only by your NAP 200 power amp and then add back your Hi-Cap DR to really gain a direct experience of what this popular upgrade offers.    I would say that the first Hi-Cap is a bigger upgrade than adding a second, but the second is certainly helpful.     I would not advise mixing the older Hi-Cap or even a Hi-Cap 2 with your Hi-Cap DR, you will get the best results by adding a second DR generation Hi-Cap to the NAC 282.   

       As noted above, some users of NAC 282's who are very strongly vinyl oriented, have found that an interesting use of a second Hi-Cap is to power a Naim phono stage with it directly- provided you use a Stageline or a Superline.    So, if your budget allows it, there are multiple ways to use two Hi-Cap DR's in your system, so it is certainly a viable way to improve your system.     In my experience, the only system configuration that will significantly outperform two Hi-Caps on a NAC 282 is the use of a Supercap 2, or better yet, a Supercap DR, but as noted above, this is a significantly more expensive alternative and may not be a comfortable fit for you.

        Good luck in your search for better sound at home,

        Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Thank you for the detailed explanation. It was truly useful and appreciated. It looks like a 2nd Hicap will likely improve things for the better. I have not used the NAP200 to directly power the NAC282 but will try that sometime. The comment about the bass improvement with the addition of a 2nd Hicap is something that I can relate to.

I am aware the Supercap 2 or Supercap DR will be significantly better than two Hicaps on the NAC282 but that would open up the possibilities for the NAC252. I am committed to stop at the 282/250/Hicap level hence my decision to stay put with the system as it is.

Allante93 posted:

 I regret not going for the SC, but in 2014 the Forum was screaming, subtle differences between SC and HCDR, if any.

Of course, the cost factor did play a part in my decision. Same dilemma, no chance to demo.

However, going on two years with:

Cdx2--+282--+HCDR--+3 x 250.2--+Briks

Ain't Bad, point being, with all the 250DR hype, Sheffield's suggestion appears to be a worthwhile consideration.

282--+HCDR--+250DR

Ain't a shabby rig, and down the road SCDR.

JMHO!

Allante93!

I surely hope the 250 DR is not hype but the real deal. I would be disappointed if it doesn't bring a tangible enough difference when it replaces the 200.

ryder. posted:

bdnyc posted:

Hi Ryder,

               Good luck in your search for better sound at home,

        Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Thank you for the detailed explanation. It was truly useful and appreciated. It looks like a 2nd Hicap will likely improve things for the better. I have not used the NAP200 to directly power the NAC282 but will try that sometime. The comment about the bass improvement with the addition of a 2nd Hicap is something that I can relate to.

I am aware the Supercap 2 or Supercap DR will be significantly better than two Hicaps on the NAC282 but that would open up the possibilities for the NAC252.I am committed to stop at the 282/250/Hicap level hence my decision to stay put with the system as it is.

Hi Ryder, I think I understand your predicament, I would like to share a quote that got me started on my Naim adventure, just a few years ago. 

"I've had 282 with HC and SC, 252 and 552. Clearly, 552 is the best - there is just a certain "rightness" to it that it is instantly recognizable.
If I had to do it all over, I would have gone straight to a 282 with supercap and stayed with it until a secondhand 552 became available."

I opted for the HCDR, which I regret this very moment!  Why?

Because I'm eyeballing a SCDR this very moment, and just like you, I didn't  want to play the upgrade ladder game!  But This was 2014 when I entered the market, Plus I had an realistic end game, which would require a need for an SC, anyhow to power my Snaxo.

But in Your Case, entering the Naim market Summer of 2016, I kind of like the following quote:

" The 282>SCDR> 250DR is as good as its gets, until one enters the 552/500 Territory ."

Sounds like you have an end game in mind, stick to it! But Mind You! Two HCDRs ain't Cheap, They Retail in the US for $2595, that's 5K or Better. 

Your Call, 

282>2 x HCDRs > 250DR  or  282 > SCDR > 250DR! 

Personally I think the full size casing looks better!

Meanwhile Enjoy your Music! 

Allante93! 

Hi Ryder,

If you are like many of the people I meet in NY, you might be very pleasantly surprised to learn that a great many users of the NAC 282 never feel the need to upgrade past one Hi-Cap power supply on this fine pre-amp, which is by a large margin, the product in the Naim line up with the greatest degree of flexibility in system configurations.    I have come to think of the NAC 282 as being the heart of the recent high end Naim electronics, as it can be used in so many different systems successfully.  

If you are just getting a new Hi-Cap DR and a companion NAP 250 DR, I would let your questions about a second Hi-Cap DR take a rest so you can enjoy the new products and get to know their performance level in your home and system.     The break in process alone will take at least a month, perhaps longer.     Don't ignore the fact that adding a NAP 250 to a system may well require some adjustments in speaker placement so you can get the best from the new amp/speaker partnership.    I would encourage you to use these new upgrades as a prompt to work on your whole system set up.    Little things matter far more than some music lovers would ever guess.    There are many threads on the Forum to find good advice about system set up and optimization in general terms.    Working with an experienced local dealer can be a very good idea as well, and they can often reach a higher level of system performance more quickly than is often the case in trial and error experimentation on your own.

Personally, I don't subscribe to the notion that everyone needs to take advantage of the upgrade options Naim has engineered into their product line up.    Sometimes you get the impression on the Forum that Naim includes a time release drug in their products which induces dissatisfaction in the listener, and this is not my experience at all for MOST listeners.    Sure, some people are really interested in the upgrade process, but many, perhaps what we might call the silent majority of Naim listeners are not interested in them.     This group is also very much less likely to post on audio forums; Naim's or otherwise, so it can seem less common than I believe it is.

If you do want to experiment with restoring your NAP 200 to powering the pre-amp, please make sure you have all of the correct cables, shorting plugs and follow a good, conservative practice of powering down all of the components before making changes in the system wiring.    Take a look a the NAP 200 and NAC 282 owner's manuals if you have any doubts at all before trying to re-wire your system.

Good listening,

Bruce

A super post, Bruce. Thanks. Loads of wisdom.

Chris

ryder. posted:

sheffieldgraham posted:

Maybe instead of buying a second HiCapDR you could part exchange your 200 for a 250 DR; or is that a step too far?

This could be less speculative performance wise than two HiCaps.

Actually I have the NAP250DR and Hicap DR on order. Currently 

 

Very well said Bruce. I agree, the OP would be wise to invest in set-up, and racking, at this stage of the game.

Furthermore, at this level of performance the increase in SQ is subtle, to say the least

But there's no need to worry, the OP seems to have a grip on matters, having ordered the 250DR & HCDR!

Hence, a very nice System, even if he decides to up the ante, and change the order, I'm quite sure the Dealer would accommodate his wishes.

282--+ 2 x HCDRs --+ 250DR

or

282 --+ SCDR --+ 250DR

A win/win situation!

 Allante93!

Hi Bruce and Allante,

Thanks for the thoughts and advice. Surely a good one. And yes, I agree a full-width Supercap looks quite a bit better and substantial than the Hicap. Nevertheless, I have the Hicap DR on order so I can safely say the Supercap is out of the question. The shipment of the  NAP250 DR and Hicap DR is delayed but I hope the dealer will expedite the process.

Good suggestion to reposition the speakers with the NAP250. There have been minor readjustments to the placement of the speakers when the NAC282 replaced the NAC202 to restore the balance. The NAC282 is fuller sounding than the NAC202 across the whole frequency spectrum and puts out more bass, quality bass that sounds fuller, goes deeper, tauter, punchier with more definition. The improvement in the bass is just with the NAC282 and not the NAP250 DR. I cannot imagine the transformation the NAP250 will bring to the system. 

In short, the NAC282 is more robust sounding and has more energy than the NAC202. The NAC202 sounds leaner in comparison, less meaty than the 282. The flow in the music with the 282 is also better.

I can subscribe to the idea that there are many silent Naim owners who are off the merry-go-round with upgrades. I have been one too with my NAC202/NAP200, about 5 years. I am quite confident that the NAC282/NAP250 will last even longer in the system, perhaps outliving me. Currently I do not have plans to sell the 202/200 and may keep them for a 2nd system. Will see how  it goes. The multiple boxes are the only issue I have with the lesser system. Simplicity in having less boxes is always more desirable to reduce clutter.

 I will try powering the NAC282 with the NAP200 this weekend and see how it goes. I have the Naim's connection manual printed out earlier this year and will have a look at it. Don't think it will be too much of a hassle. The most important thing is to have all equipment switched off prior to redoing the connections.

ryder. posted:

I cannot seem to find any thread in the archive on this. Has anybody tried using 2 Hicap DR on the 282. Which configuration will yield a "better" sound quality, 1 or 2 Hicaps on the 282.

Any information would be appreciated.

Hello,

I had a HC DR formely used with Nait XS and later  feeding NAC282. Ithink for the latter a single HC is the sweet spot of the range, i wouldn't bother with a second one. You can eventually go for a SC-DR  if your ultimate plan is a 252. (personally i jumped from 282 to 552)

NAP200 to 250 DR according to general reports seems a winning solution.

Regards

Roberto

Hi Ryder,

As it is, it  seems a nice and balanced system, however, for sinergy sake, didn' t you consider a Naim source like      CDX2 ?

Regards

Roberto

RSCH are you happy with 552 after the 282 (you must be) - I do recall you had some concerns initially?

Ryder  - Don't worry I went through same path as you 202/HCDR/200 then 282/HCDR/200 then 282/HCDR/250DR

The 250DR is quite a bit better than 200 ! 

There is a very rich sound (in the best sense) of the 250 DR, no comparison.... The Naim regulated amps are much better...

Hi Roberto,

As for the CDX2, it is similar to the case with the Supercap 2 as it will pave way for the NAC252. I didn't consider the CDX2 as it will lead to an additional box in the XPS power supply. Nevertheless, I am not discounting the CDX2 in the near future. Currently my Krell  CD player does not sound too shabby. Instead of the CDX2 I may eventually consider the Naim DAC. Will see how it goes. It wouldn't be too soon for a source upgrade as I currently derive some good enjoyment from the setup, not to mention there are better things that will be coming soon.. (NAP250 DR and Hicap DR).

Cheers.

Analogmusic, that is surely good to hear. I am waiting for the 250 DR and Hicap DR with great anticipation. The current system (NAC282/NAP200/PSU) sounds great as it is right now, certainly playing at a higher level of sophistication when compared to the 202/200.

In short, the 282 is a better preamp that provides a deeper insight into the recordings. There is more enjoyment with the higher level of refinement that the 282 produces.