Headphone amps compared

Main-amplifier integral h/p amps are generally a kind of free 'add-on' and okay but nothing special. If one engages in a lot of h/p listening, a dedicated amplifier is essential.

With a lot of headphone use in evidence, I'm surprised that Naim haven't revamped the long in the tooth and average sounding (to these ears at least) Headline; or indeed developed a much more 'serious' and higher-cost device. The Headline is a daft bit of kit; ideally requiring a Supercap to give of its best - then becoming overpriced for its performance level.

There are many better, (and simpler one-box) h/p amps out there; and as ever, one must simply listen and find a good synergistic match with one's chosen headphones.

Come on Naim. Make a really good headphone amp. The market is crying out for it.

John.

Naim headamps/DACs: no/maybe

Violectric headamps/DACs: yes/no

J.N. posted:

Main-amplifier integral h/p amps are generally a kind of free 'add-on' and okay but nothing special. If one engages in a lot of h/p listening, a dedicated amplifier is essential.

With a lot of headphone use in evidence, I'm surprised that Naim haven't revamped the long in the tooth and average sounding (to these ears at least) Headline; or indeed developed a much more 'serious' and higher-cost device. The Headline is a daft bit of kit; ideally requiring a Supercap to give of its best - then becoming overpriced for its performance level.

There are many better, (and simpler one-box) h/p amps out there; and as ever, one must simply listen and find a good synergistic match with one's chosen headphones.

Come on Naim. Make a really good headphone amp. The market is crying out for it.

John.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with the possible exception that integral h/p amps are a free add-on. While it is true to a certain extent that doesn't mean they have to be lackluster. Go listen to an equivalently priced Yamaha integrated h/p output and let me know how it compares to Naim.

Naim really need to step up their game in this department.

There was a thread here a few weeks ago along the same lines.  I posted then that I thought my headline was roughly equivalent to the headphone amp with my Nait XS2 (which, unlike others, I think is very good).

Just last week though I picked up a used 2010 Hicap and am now using it to power the Headline.  It really puts it into a different league.  With just the isupply the Headline was roughly on par with my Graham Slee Novo.  I think you would have a challenge besting the Headline / Hicap combo.  Whether it represents good VFM is another question.  I picked up both of mine used.  

I have a idle flatcap2 but i won't invest into Hicap just for Headline, you can buy a lot headamp for headline+hicap price, i have to buy it new, impossible to find second hand where i live

How about Dac V1 vs Headline vs 272 comparison ? anyone ? if we are talking about 272 level for V1 or Headline, i am out for another brand because mojo betters 272 headphone stage with HD800

Maybe i should wait for a new Naim headamp like the Moon Audio's one

If you're going to spend the equivalent of a Headline + Hi-cap on a headphone amplifier take a look at ALO Studio Six or Blue Hawaii. Both are way out of my budget for a headamp, both will humiliate the HL+HC duo in a big way.

A tough question as most people will ahve used one of the other but not both. I imagine the headphone amp on the 272 is at least fairly capable. I have to say, if I had a 272, I would be inclined to buy headphones that compliment it rather that go so overboard I needed to buy a seperate headphone amp to do them justice.

The only direct Naim/Naim comparison I have done recently is the headphone amp on a UQ2 (which is categorically not in the same league as a V1 in this respect) against a HeadLine/NAPSC and then HeadLine/HCDR. Differernces in source aside, there are some cans that even a HeadLine/NAPSC struggles to wake up. Using HD600, it is clear that the UQ2 is inferior in headphone driving ability for 300Ohm units. The difference a HeadLine/NAPSC makes is incredible in terms of opening up the sound which is very forced on the UQ2.

HeadLine/HCDR is as big a leap again over the HeadLine/NAPSC. As you would expect for a GBP1600 dedicated analogue headphone amp. But not sure if this is because the HC is just such an amazing PS or because the HC delivers 25% higher voltage than the NAPSC. Would have been interested in seeing whether a FCXS got as good results but I already had a spare HCDR.

İts been years that i am using hd800 and lcd2

use schiit lyr to drive them recently than mojo

but now i have a nas/stramer i am looking for a headamp to place into my fraim

A 272 might be enough for HD800. I'd give it a try before spending any money.

If you've already made up your mind to spend money and add boxes, HD800 off a HeadLine/HCDR is incredible (I use this myself). But, really try the 272 for a while. I'm sure Naim did put thought into a decent headphone amp on the unit.

Headline (olive) + Hicap (olive) into HD650. Does the job.....very nicely. Even makes Hawkwind sound good - although I must get the volume control fixed!

i listen again 272 with HD800, it is thin and not alive, i listen it at 60/70, it can get loud but music is not a joy to listen, i will give it another try with a repertoire of string quartets, sonatas and concertos when i find a very quite time in my living room. ıt did not perform with black keys, ben harper and Wii Butler ( Live! very good album by the way ).

I tried it with Sony Z7 which proved to be not bad at all,  still i have to compare it with mojo but i did enjoy it. 

Anyone tried Headline with Flatcap2? 

I really like the headphone amp in the Supernait 2, which may or may not be similar to those in the 272 and/or V1. I find it generally more informative than the Headline2 with a Flatcap. However, I think the little Creek OBH-11 is almost its rival for overall performance. I'm keeping both, anyway. Maybe it depends on the phones - I'm using Beyer T90s.

Of course the other obvious thing to try in the Sennheiser HDVD 800 headphone amp which is designed for them. I did try this and it is a VERY good  match for them. But ultimately, as a source, an NDX/XPSdr is better and so was the HeadLine/HCDR. Though the HDVD 800 was better VFM if you didn't already have the rest of the hifi.

There is all ways similar HDVD 600 without DAC version same amp....

i use my hd 800's with a hugo, very satisfied and also portable

I have also mojo, not sure about mojo>hugo>tt value chain.

is it worth to invest to hugo when you have mojo, where the tt stands.

i am ready to invest in tt if there is a difference to justify the price hike.

too many question

It's only worth it if you value the differences you hear. I don't know the Mojo, but I value the difference I hear between Hugo and HugoTT. The TT has a more capable headphone stage than the Hugo which I am told suits the higher impedance Sennheisers better.

Simon

Thank you for your input

can the hugo tt used with 272?

use the 272 as streamer and hugo tt as dac/headphone amp 

and use hugo tt dac as a dac for 272 ? 

If i make and investment to tt i want to use it as a headphone amp and a dac for the main system, i dont know it is possible

For a headphone amp only it is a lot of money 

I have own a headline 2 and I supply for a while, the volume pot is fantastic the sound: okey, but for the price I'm NOT impressed, I actually prefer Rega ear more! yes maby it's need a hicap...But then it's a really expensive headphone amp. 

Salmon Dave posted:

I really like the headphone amp in the Supernait 2, which may or may not be similar to those in the 272 and/or V1. I find it generally more informative than the Headline2 with a Flatcap. However, I think the little Creek OBH-11 is almost its rival for overall performance. I'm keeping both, anyway. Maybe it depends on the phones - I'm using Beyer T90s.

I have a Supernait 2 and I would say that the headphone amp on it is no more than ok, sounds fine until unplug my phones and plug them into my Hugo which is stunning in comparison.

J.N. posted:

Main-amplifier integral h/p amps are generally a kind of free 'add-on' and okay but nothing special. If one engages in a lot of h/p listening, a dedicated amplifier is essential.

With a lot of headphone use in evidence, I'm surprised that Naim haven't revamped the long in the tooth and average sounding (to these ears at least) Headline; or indeed developed a much more 'serious' and higher-cost device. The Headline is a daft bit of kit; ideally requiring a Supercap to give of its best - then becoming overpriced for its performance level.

There are many better, (and simpler one-box) h/p amps out there; and as ever, one must simply listen and find a good synergistic match with one's chosen headphones.

Come on Naim. Make a really good headphone amp. The market is crying out for it.

John,

I agree that I was hoping Naim to come up with a Superline level 'phone amp (with cct. board on a floating brass slab etc..), I disagree regarding your assessment of their current Headline 2 particularly with HD800.

I was in a search of better closed can a few years ago so I went to a Head-fi meet with my HL2 and NAPSC to hear various headphones.

Boy, did I hear a lot of *crap* headphone amps!
HD800 was everywhere and driven by many different amps both valves and solid state and guess what! the HD800 sounded the best with my humble HL2/NAPSC.

Now this was before Sennheiser came out with their own amp for the HD800 so I do not know how it fairs, HL2/HD800 ( with a proper source ) was most enjoyable for me.

As far as the use of a SC with HL2, it certainly isn't a mandatory I feel as even a littlest NAPSC has the Naim sound I love in spade. I certainly did not get this when I was listening via non Naim amps.

Provision for a chassis mounted DIN socket would be also nice as I think that the stock captive plug is limiting its performance. ( albeit it is generally much better than various non Naim aftermarket cords I have tried so I could see from the factory stand point,  having this is better than using a less than optimal none Naim cable )

I got mine modified and used a Hi-line, there was a marked performance boost. I've no doubt that Super Lumina also can be good here.

Wow. Is that a Naim factory option?

No.

I had ex US distributor ( NANA ) modify the unit so that I can experiment with various aftermarket cables.

The factory should offer it. I am sure if they were to come out with a *SuperNAHA*, it would NOT have a captive cable.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

It's only worth it if you value the differences you hear. I don't know the Mojo, but I value the difference I hear between Hugo and HugoTT. The TT has a more capable headphone stage than the Hugo which I am told suits the higher impedance Sennheisers better.

Simon

 

Simon, I'm currently experiencing an issue with my TT and wondered if you have the same problem in your setup. I noticed that when the front led display is on/lit then a faint high pitch noise can be heard through the speakers (SCM40A), it's audible 0.5-3 foot away. The noise disappears once the front led display times out and switches to off. The noise is not audible through headphone out.

Halloween Man posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

It's only worth it if you value the differences you hear. I don't know the Mojo, but I value the difference I hear between Hugo and HugoTT. The TT has a more capable headphone stage than the Hugo which I am told suits the higher impedance Sennheisers better.

Simon

 

Simon, I'm currently experiencing an issue with my TT and wondered if you have the same problem in your setup. I noticed that when the front led display is on/lit then a faint high pitch noise can be heard through the speakers (SCM40A), it's audible 0.5-3 foot away. The noise disappears once the front led display times out and switches to off. The noise is not audible through headphone out.

Halloween Man, I saw in another place that you were having some hassles with your TT, sorry to hear it. It might reassure you (or annoy you!) to know that when I had a TT and SCM25As one of the tests I did was to put the TT to max volume and my ear right on the drive units - I couldn't hear any noise. I am pretty sure the display wouldn't have timed out while I was doing that, if only because you don't want to have things at max volume any longer than necessary in case music accidentally starts playing! Now others have mentioned it though, I do recall a couple of incidents when the TT changed inputs when I thought I had pressed the volume on the remote; at the time I put it down to clumsy fingers, but given what others have said, it probably wasn't. As far as your noise is concerned, are you driving your 40As balanced or unbalanced? Does anything change if you move your speaker cables? Or other cabling?  Or try a different input on the TT? Is it both speakers or just one? It isn't really acceptable imo.