Wav, Flac - download questions

Kacper posted:

The reason why Im downloading the AIFF music files is fact that I'm the macbook user and also what I have heard is that AIFF is uncompressed (the same as WAV) but has no problems with metadate (WAV has some issues about that) 

WAV does not have issues with metadata,   I've used it since I started streaming in early 2014 & believe me WAV is as easy to edit as any other file format.        

Next time I will purchase some albums in WAV format, - just to try.

You don't need to buy in WAV,  buy in whatever is available & convert.  The last few albums I bought were in FLAC as thats all that was on offer from HighResAudio.   And you don't need to wait,  copy an album & convert the copy to WAV & then go play with the metadata & see for yourself & also see if you hear a difference.    I use a number of progs for editing dBpoweramp, Mp3tag & also I find a little freebie called AudioShell handy for the small adjustment work.  

Kacper posted:

Next time I will purchase some albums in WAV format, - just to try.

If there is a choice, I always take AIFF. That's my default setting on HD Tracks.

...or you could make a copy of one of your AIFF albums, convert it to WAV and/or FLAC, and see how they compare. You can do this on a Mac with XLD very easily.

I downloaded the latest 2.78 version of mp3 tag, and somewhere in the 2.7 updates wav has been supported, and since I am used to edit meta data in that program and I will now rip my cds on the pc I will probably go for wav.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Kacper posted:

Next time I will purchase some albums in WAV format, - just to try.

If there is a choice, I always take AIFF. That's my default setting on HD Tracks.

and that's the same with me, my default settings in HDtracks is AIFF. As far I know AIFF it's a competitor to WAV (uncompressed format) so there is no reason convert AIFF to FLAC. ( FLAC is a competitor for ALAC)

Correct

WAV = Windows native format

AIFF = Apple native format

Both offer the same quality and take up approximately the same amount of space. 

Kacper posted:

and that's the same with me, my default settings in HDtracks is AIFF. As far I know AIFF it's a competitor to WAV (uncompressed format) so there is no reason convert AIFF to FLAC. ( FLAC is a competitor for ALAC)

Don't get misled into thinking FLAC is played compressed,  FLAC is stored in a compressed state to economise on storage space,  but the server (NAS) un-compresses the file & streams it to the player uncompressed.

Mike-B posted:

Kacper posted:

and that's the same with me, my default settings in HDtracks is AIFF. As far I know AIFF it's a competitor to WAV (uncompressed format) so there is no reason convert AIFF to FLAC. ( FLAC is a competitor for ALAC)

Don't get misled into thinking FLAC is played compressed,  FLAC is stored in a compressed state to economise on storage space,  but the server (NAS) un-compresses the file & streams it to the player uncompressed.

Only if you transcode.  Other wise the datasteam sent across the network is FLAC and the streamer's digital processor uncompresses it.

Huge posted:

Mike-B posted:

Kacper posted:

and that's the same with me, my default settings in HDtracks is AIFF. As far I know AIFF it's a competitor to WAV (uncompressed format) so there is no reason convert AIFF to FLAC. ( FLAC is a competitor for ALAC)

Don't get misled into thinking FLAC is played compressed,  FLAC is stored in a compressed state to economise on storage space,  but the server (NAS) un-compresses the file & streams it to the player uncompressed.

Only if you transcode.  Other wise the datasteam sent across the network is FLAC and the streamer's digital processor uncompresses it.

That's correct, so again - there is no reason convert AIFF to FLAC.

..........  err  ??  whoops,  

Of course not.

Playing back compressed files directly on a streamer like your ND5XS increases processors computational load. This may lead to additional noise being introduced into the system as a reasult of that 'work'.

General consensus therfore is:

* Use uncompressed formats: WAV and AIFF

* If buying compressed: use FLAC, and set your UPnP server to transcode (to WAV)

Adam

Adam Zielinski posted:

Of course not.

Playing back compressed files directly on a streamer like your ND5XS increases processors computational load. This may lead to additional noise being introduced into the system as a reasult of that 'work'.

General consensus therfore is:

* Use uncompressed formats: WAV and AIFF

* If buying compressed: use FLAC, and set your UPnP server to transcode (to WAV)

Adam

I disagree with this 'general consensus'. I certainly wouldn't use an Apple format, and I wouldn't store in WAV. While I agree that mostly there are no problems with WAV metadata in general use, switching between UPNP servers can result in issues.

Better to store in FLAC and transcode. FWIW, in my tests I can't tell the difference.

Solid Air posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Of course not.

Playing back compressed files directly on a streamer like your ND5XS increases processors computational load. This may lead to additional noise being introduced into the system as a reasult of that 'work'.

General consensus therfore is:

* Use uncompressed formats: WAV and AIFF

* If buying compressed: use FLAC, and set your UPnP server to transcode (to WAV)

Adam

I disagree with this 'general consensus'. I certainly wouldn't use an Apple format, and I wouldn't store in WAV. While I agree that mostly there are no problems with WAV metadata in general use, switching between UPNP servers can result in issues.

Better to store in FLAC and transcode. FWIW, in my tests I can't tell the difference.

And I certainly wouldn't use a WAV format if I have a choice, since I run a Mac ecostysem at home

As to FLAC: storage is cheap nowadays, so why bother with compressed files, if uncrompressed can be stored? (That's a rethorical question).

KACPER: I think you now have all the answers to your questions and then some more 

Adam Zielinski posted:

And I certainly wouldn't use a WAV format if I have a choice, since I run a Mac ecostysem at home

As to FLAC: storage is cheap nowadays, so why bother with compressed files, if uncrompressed can be stored? (That's a rethorical question).

As a (living!) Unitiserve user, I store in FLAC despite being all Mac here too. If you use your WAV Unitiserve CD rips on other devices, that's where the problem lies. Not a concern for the OP though, if he uses a QNAP.

Actually, I'm not all Mac! I've got a Unitiserve, a Synology backup NAS, a Sony NW-ZX2 and a car. But the point is that changing format as you transfer between devices is easy, so I don't see that it matters. 

Adam Zielinski posted:

Solid Air posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Of course not.

Playing back compressed files directly on a streamer like your ND5XS increases processors computational load. This may lead to additional noise being introduced into the system as a reasult of that 'work'.

General consensus therfore is:

* Use uncompressed formats: WAV and AIFF

* If buying compressed: use FLAC, and set your UPnP server to transcode (to WAV)

Adam

I disagree with this 'general consensus'. I certainly wouldn't use an Apple format, and I wouldn't store in WAV. While I agree that mostly there are no problems with WAV metadata in general use, switching between UPNP servers can result in issues.

Better to store in FLAC and transcode. FWIW, in my tests I can't tell the difference.

And I certainly wouldn't use a WAV format if I have a choice, since I run a Mac ecostysem at home

As to FLAC: storage is cheap nowadays, so why bother with compressed files, if uncrompressed can be stored? (That's a rethorical question).

KACPER: I think you now have all the answers to your questions and then some more 

well; yes. I was just wondering what makes WAV so special. I think it's based on which operating system is in usage (windows WAV and OS X AIFF), in my opinion there is no difference in sound quality. :-)

There is no difference in sound quality between AIFF and WAV. 
Popularity of WAV most likely stems from a wide-spread popularity of Windows based systems.

ChrisSU posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

And I certainly wouldn't use a WAV format if I have a choice, since I run a Mac ecostysem at home

As to FLAC: storage is cheap nowadays, so why bother with compressed files, if uncrompressed can be stored? (That's a rethorical question).

As a (living!) Unitiserve user, I store in FLAC despite being all Mac here too. If you use your WAV Unitiserve CD rips on other devices, that's where the problem lies. Not a concern for the OP though, if he uses a QNAP.

Actually, I'm not all Mac! I've got a Unitiserve, a Synology backup NAS, a Sony NW-ZX2 and a car. But the point is that changing format as you transfer between devices is easy, so I don't see that it matters. 

Good point Chris re US and FLAC.
Now that my UnitiServe is off for repairs, I have to use Minimserver if a 'folder view' to listen to any music that was ripped by my SU (all in WAV of course )
I keep promissing myself to convert all those rips to FLAC one day... (NOTE FOR KACPER: Uniti Serve rips to either WAV of FLAC and can convert between the two ripped formats).

but if you convert any format - to WAV, the metadata is still a visible? 

Kacper posted:

but if you convert any format - to WAV, the metadata is still a visible? 

Generally yes, as long the metadata was there in the first place.

Naim servers / rippers (UnitiServe and HDX) are a little bit different: ripping is done to WAV by default, but metadata is stored in a special file, which resides in the same folder. It's a proprietary technique, not used outside of the Naim servers. 
That is why WAV files, ripped by, say a UnitiServe, don't really have much metadata, beyond their name. So using those files outside of the US / HDX is difficult.
However...  US / HDX can also rip to FLAC (or indeed convert previously ripped WAV files to FLAC). Metadata is then embeded into the FLAC file. So it's easy to use it outisde of the Naim servers' ecosystem.

Hope that answers the question.

Yes, it still does show up.

I converted all my Unitiserve rips from WAV toFLAC. The files displayed perfectly before and after, ans still do now I am transcoding from FLAC back to WAV for my NDX.

No problems in that respect Kacper.

Think you beat me to it Adam with a much more complete answer    :-)

ChrisH posted:

Think you beat me to it Adam with a much more complete answer    :-)

Seems we were typing at the same time...

I'm defintely getting those WAVs converted to FLAC.... (NOTE to SELF).

Now it's clear for me. I have tried once convert ALAC to WAV via Audio Converter Pro (avaible at app store) and there was no metadata avaible after. I could possibly place all metadata manually but i Belive would be too much work :-P