Non-Naim CD Player (as Transport) + Naim DAC vs Naim CDX2

For the price of a CDX2 and NDac, you are in CDS3 territory. Just a thought.

The CDS3 is already obsolete and not featured on Naim's webpage. I am actually looking at the Naim DAC and not the CDX2. I was hoping that some folks here who have compared the nDAC and CDX2 have got better results with the nDAC (when combined with a non-Naim CD player as a transport).

Except that you can plug multiple sources into the NDac.   

This is a question I'm curious about as well.  When my CD5 dies I'm going to look seriously at an NDac but will look at a less expensive CD Player than the CDX2 as a transport.  

In fairness, if a CDS3 is obsolete, so is a CDX2, and no more obsolete than half of a CDX2 when used as such.

Ian Brown posted:

When my CD5 dies I'm going to look seriously at an NDac ........

Or just get it repaired by Naim, Ian.

Chris

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend with my remark. I am aware the CDS3 is a wonderful unit, much better than the CDX2. My point with the obsolete remark is it is not featured on Naim's page anymore. It's not so much about the quality of the unit.

Another note is I will not be going into the CDS3's territory. The nDAC is more realistic for my level of expectations.

Christopher_M posted:

Ian Brown posted:

When my CD5 dies I'm going to look seriously at an NDac ........

Or just get it repaired by Naim, Ian.

Chris

I don't mean to hijack the thread but I was under the impression the CD5 transport could not be replaced.  

Ian Brown posted:

Christopher_M posted:

Ian Brown posted:

When my CD5 dies I'm going to look seriously at an NDac ........

Or just get it repaired by Naim, Ian.

Chris

I don't mean to hijack the thread but I was under the impression the CD5 transport could not be replaced.  

Can be. Easily. It's a different mech but my CD5 came back from Naim better than at any time in my previous ownership of it.

Now back to Ryder's thread.

C.

Ryder,  some years back when the Naim DAC was first launched I wrote a thread about results of testing various transports on the DAC.  From the outset I had a feeling that there wouldn't be a whole lot of difference, but against expectations I found that one or two of them were head and shoulders ahead of the rest.  You may well find that the Krell makes an excellent transport on the DAC.  However, don't fall for pre-conceptions - I thought that a top  of the range Sony ES player would make a fantastic transport however it sounded ever so boring, probably my least favourite  sounding of all the machines I tried.

Thanks for the response Richard. I read your post yesterday, a rather long one posted back in 2010 if I am not mistaken. The Meridian CD player came out tops when matched with the Naim DAC.

I have a niggling feeling my Krell CD player is limiting the high frequency extension and was hoping the nDAC may help boost the airiness and extension in the treble. If that fails to bring a dramatic change, I'll replace the speakers. I think I will eventually make both changes. 

You have some interesting options to play with on the Krell - I'd ignore the optical TOSLINK (pretty much always a way behind a good coaxial s/pdif in my experience) but certainly compare the coaxial against the AES/EBU output.  To use the latter with the Naim DAC you will need a 75ohm BNC coupler and a 110ohm XLR to 75ohm BNC transformer.  Below is a pic of my own DAC with a Canare transformer, RS BNC coupler, and Transparent Premium AES/EBU cable.

Ryder -

I've heard the Krell (the KPS30i) as transport with a Meridian 563 (and a Krell DAC) in a Naim system; it worked very well and actually played music brilliantly (I CANNOT believe I just wrote that about anything from Krell, by the way!).  I obviously can't say how it would work with a Naim DAC, but given how much better the nDAC is than the 563 I'd be surprised if it didn't work very well. 

Fair enough Ryder. Good luck with your search.

Ryder,

Which transport does your 30i use?

If it's a Phillips CDM 12.4 ( this is an obsolete item, too ) , it should work well with a Naim DAC.

Personally I prefer Philips to a Teac VRDS transport they used on their later CD players.

Richard Dane posted:

You have some interesting options to play with on the Krell - I'd ignore the optical TOSLINK (pretty much always a way behind a good coaxial s/pdif in my experience) but certainly compare the coaxial against the AES/EBU output.  To use the latter with the Naim DAC you will need a 75ohm BNC coupler and a 110ohm XLR to 75ohm BNC transformer.  Below is a pic of my own DAC with a Canare transformer, RS BNC coupler, and Transparent Premium AES/EBU cable.

Thanks for the photo and the advice on the coaxial s/pdif which is the way to go with the nDAC. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, and that's the case here.

Will surely keep the AES/EBU connection in mind though i note that one of these quality cables will not come cheap.

Thanks Bob. It looks like there is hope with the Krell KPS-30i. I am not into Krell anyway, especially their amps both KAV-300i integrated and massive FPBs. Krell has gone downhill nowadays especially when most of their gear are manufactured in China, probably with some Chinese influence in their designs (the new Krell now look pretty hideous compared to the older range, but that's my opinion).

Kuma, I am not sure whether my KPS-30i has the Philips CDM 12.4 or Teac VRDS transport. I will find out from the dealer some time as they replaced the output capacitors on the unit several years ago.

The player is still going strong after more than 10 years of use. As a matter of fact, the last time I was in contact with the dealer, he still has a spare transport for the Krell. I hope he hasn't got it installed in other Krell units yet.

kuma posted:

Ryder,

Which transport does your 30i use?

If it's a Phillips CDM 12.4 ( this is an obsolete item, too ) , it should work well with a Naim DAC.

Personally I prefer Philips to a Teac VRDS transport they used on their later CD players.

Ryder,

Let us know what your dealer says. It is a great news if krell still stocks the Philips transport. Later 20i used Philips 9 Pro and it was no longer. Many people lamented even the factory could not fixed a failed transport.

A few years ago I called Krell to see if they still had a JVC EXU-901A transport ( used in kps 25s ) and laser pick up, they told me they still do and can still service the unit. My kps 25s is still in use after 17 years! ( has been recapped twice ) During this time a proprietary parts in a transport was cracked but the factory still stocks it so they were still be able to fix it.

Kuma,

Just checked. The transport in my Krell KPS-30i is a Philips. Good to hear that Krell still stock the transport for the older units.

After a recent speaker audition, I would have to defer the nDAC plan for a while. But it will some, sooner or later.

Richard Dane posted:

You have some interesting options to play with on the Krell - I'd ignore the optical TOSLINK (pretty much always a way behind a good coaxial s/pdif in my experience) but certainly compare the coaxial against the AES/EBU output.  To use the latter with the Naim DAC you will need a 75ohm BNC coupler and a 110ohm XLR to 75ohm BNC transformer.  Below is a pic of my own DAC with a Canare transformer, RS BNC coupler, and Transparent Premium AES/EBU cable.

Hi Richard,

I just checked on some digital cables. Apparently the Wireworld Gold Starlight 7 digital cable is already in 75-ohm. Do we still need all the couplers?

Note the "75 ohm" marking on the labeling in the photo below. With this cable, I can utilise the balanced connection on the Krell CD player.

Ryder, AES/EBU is 110ohm whereas s/pdif should be 75ohm.  While one can make up a balanced AES/EBU XLR to s/pdif cable that may well have a nominal 75ohm termination and it will work ok, if not optimally, I'm told that a proper transformer is a much better idea.  The way I have it above, the 110ohm balanced connection goes all the way to the transformer which is then perfectly coupled at 75ohms to the BNC input on the Naim DAC.  

So, I would be asking whether the lead above has an integral 110ohm balanced to 75ohm single-ended transformer?  And, if so, is it available with a BNC termination instead of RCA phono?

p.s. Note that I have not tried out all the different permutations yet; one could have the transformer at the other end and connect via a BNC-BNC coaxial s/pdif interconnect.  Also try just using the coaxial s/pdif output and input, although RCA phonos are not as good here as 75ohm BNCs.  I will try these out at some point to see which I prefer but right now there are more important matters at hand...

Thanks for the response Richard. I will sort this out later.

Cheers.