SBLs

That's a shame, lots of people seem to have used the site. Just tried via archive.org and it's got some of the site, but not all.

IIRC it was Garyi who put it up. Does the newfangled forum (ok, not that newfangled any more) support things like @GARYI to alert people?

An excellent guide to setting up SBLs is included with the purchase of a new gasket set. i posted a copy of this guide on this forum a few years ago, i'll see if i can find it and post it again.

What serial number are your SBLs?  [or year of manufacture]

Are the tweeters and x-overs original?

Are the cabinets in good condition?  

What is the rest of your audio system that you intend to use with them?

Debs

Can't find the forum link to previous SBL setting up guide, but found this link that maybe useful:

http://www.music-line.biz/cms/...m_speakers_dbl_e.pdf

Johnny2Shoes posted:

@NAIM_NYMPH

The serial number is 43440. I'm pretty sure the xovers and tweeters are the
originals. The cabinets are in great condition.

The 43xxx serial number identifies them as manufactured in 1988, so fairly early ones. The mkII mid/bass driver upgrade would have been done during or post 1995, these drivers tend to last quite well so we can assume they are okay...

If the x-overs and tweeters are originals from 1988 they will be well past their best, and the performance you'll hear won't represent anywhere near as good as their potential - in fact they will probably sound awful. However, if the cabinets and drivers are fine then you have the option of replacing the worn out bits and bringing your SBLs back up to spec, it maybe a leap of faith if you've not heard SBLs because you'll need to spend some money on them but IME  this is still a very cost effective way of gaining a classic speaker that has the capability of out-performing any other speaker for 2 or 3 times your total expenditure.

You live fairly close to Rearsby, Leicestershire - the home of Cymbiosis  (naim dealer) Peter there is a good engineer who can replace your tweeters with a new matched pair of naim supplied ones, not sure how much this costs now but will guess around £400 ish, plus x-overs are still available for SBLs at £228, and a new gasket set too which was around 80 quid last time i looked.

Spending over 700 quid on an old pair of SBL may seem daft but in reality you'd need to spend a lot more to get a better pair of speakers, and if hypothetically SBLs were still manufactured today they'd probably cost over £4k a pair [or more?]

Also recommend  you use naca5 speaker cable - if you're not already, and at least 4 meters long for each length : )

hope this helps

Debs

Naim banana plugs at both ends of your Naca5 wires, Johnny. Without them at the speaker end you're not gonna be able to get the speaker to around 7cm from the wall, so defeating the design.

Chris

Basic tests first:

• Are the speakers sealed properly? The bass/midrange unit should come back slowly when pressed in with your fingertips, literally 3 seconds or more to return to rest. If it comes straight back out, then the gasket seal is broken and needs to be re-made.
• Are the speakers near the wall behind them? Typically SBLs must be up against a wall to provide bass reinforcement. These are not speakers which like any space behind them. There are exceptions to this rule, but they really are exceptions.
• Are the speakers dead square to the listening position? This is usual for best results. Toeing in the speakers is not usually successful.
• Are the speakers in the equilateral triangle positions to the listening seat? In other words, they should be as far apart from each other as they are from the listening position. Placing them closer together can give a congested confused sound. Placing them further can cause a hole in the middle.
• Is the top box and frame touching the bass/mid box? This is bad. The top box should stand free and the bottom surface should be parallel to the mid-box's top surface.
• What interconnect are you using between CD and amp? Typically, I'd suggest a Chord Crimson DIN-2phono or a HiLine if you're feeling flush.
• What speaker cable? I always use and recommend NACA5 for Rega amps. It's a brilliant combination.
• Are you using the original power cables of both CD and Rega? If not, try them!
• Are they plugged into the wall or a multiway block? If the latter is it surge protected or a power conditioner? If it is, that will be doing you no favours at all. 
• Do you have other electronics plugged into the same distribution block? If they are modern things like TV, set top box, games console, unplug them and see what happens. You want to plug those sorts of things into a conditioned block to keep their noise away from the HiFi.

If you've checked the above, and you're still unhappy, try to describe what's wrong and maybe we can help.

Frank.

Also, where possible, nothing in between the speakers. JV was quite firm about that with SBLs.

Not always practical, and I suspect that in my case having to have stuff between the speakers was the reason they sounded better slightly out from the wall. Lots of experimenting to find the optimum distance (followed by a re-seal once the right position was found) paid dividends.

Frank Abela posted:

Basic tests first:

• Are the speakers sealed properly? The bass/midrange unit should come back slowly when pressed in with your fingertips, literally 3 seconds or more to return to rest. If it comes straight back out, then the gasket seal is broken and needs to be re-made.
• Are the speakers near the wall behind them? Typically SBLs must be up against a wall to provide bass reinforcement. These are not speakers which like any space behind them. There are exceptions to this rule, but they really are exceptions.
• Are the speakers dead square to the listening position? This is usual for best results. Toeing in the speakers is not usually successful.
• Are the speakers in the equilateral triangle positions to the listening seat? In other words, they should be as far apart from each other as they are from the listening position. Placing them closer together can give a congested confused sound. Placing them further can cause a hole in the middle.
• Is the top box and frame touching the bass/mid box? This is bad. The top box should stand free and the bottom surface should be parallel to the mid-box's top surface.
• What interconnect are you using between CD and amp? Typically, I'd suggest a Chord Crimson DIN-2phono or a HiLine if you're feeling flush.
• What speaker cable? I always use and recommend NACA5 for Rega amps. It's a brilliant combination.
• Are you using the original power cables of both CD and Rega? If not, try them!
• Are they plugged into the wall or a multiway block? If the latter is it surge protected or a power conditioner? If it is, that will be doing you no favours at all. 
• Do you have other electronics plugged into the same distribution block? If they are modern things like TV, set top box, games console, unplug them and see what happens. You want to plug those sorts of things into a conditioned block to keep their noise away from the HiFi.

If you've checked the above, and you're still unhappy, try to describe what's wrong and maybe we can help.

Frank.

Good post, Frank

however you should delete the part i've highlighted due it being complete rubbish! : D

Debs

Debs,

£400 for tweeters and £229 for the xover. Checked with Naim today so you were spot on.. Sadly Mk1 bass units unavailable and Mk2 will not fit my 1989 cabinets.

Mulling this over as I really love the SBLs. I have to gamble the 600 investment against my original bass units lasting a good few years more, and how much they become the weak link given their age....

Thanks to Naim for such a speedy reply, great service as ever.

Stu

You say in your first post that you have mk2 drivers, yet in your last post you say that mk2 won't fit?

Have you actually got mk2 bass units? They have flat plates all round, without a lip. The mk2 do in fact fit in the early cabinets, it's just that the apertures need to be made a little larger, which is not hard to do, so long as you know what you are doing. 

High HH,

I am not the OP so different speakers!

I have heard that they can be made to fit, however my dealer may have a very tempting solution of some Mk2 in cherry in vgc. Newer if not new drivers so I may well take him up on them. Just need to match them with our decor...

thanks again,

stu

Oops, sorry! I'd get the cherry mk2s if I were you, so long as you like the colour, which can sometimes be a rather nasty orange. Note that the real mk2 has an all over veneered cabinet made by Hornslet, which make for a better sound. Most sold as 'mk2' are actually the original cabinet but with Naim rather than Mordaunt Short bass units. 

Cheers HH. These are true Mk2s. 

Stu

The ones that Tom Tom have had for ages?

No, Billy Vee, but if I get gerzumped I will be blaming you!

They need a xover but otherwise look good. Waiting for the boss to come home and approve the colour but strong chance that it is a good solution to my problem. I would probably keep my old black ones as insurance.

Might treat them to a new xover and a gasket kit of course. Cheers again to Paul for the suggestion. 

stu.

Johnny2Shoes posted:

I mainly listen to cds - at least until I upgrade my turntable. I'm using a
Naim cd5 and a Rega Elex-r.

Ah, SBLs.  One of the very best speakers ever made.  I wish I still had mine.

Debs and Frank Abela have given you good guidance.

However:

I think you have two issues.  First, as Debs and Frank note, the tweeters, crossovers, and foam driver covers should be updated - your speakers are 28 years old (!), and that's old enough to vote, have kids, and buy marijuana (at least in Colorado!).

Second, SBLs are *extremely* revealing and intolerant of inadequate electronics in front of them.  While your CD5 is probably adequate (if barely), your Elex (while quite good) is simply not up to driving them.  The generally accepted minimum to drive a set of SBLs used to be a 72/Hicap/140 (and preferably a 250); when the 52 came out it rather simplified things as a 52/140 was obviously and dramatically better than 72/HC/250.  So you might investigate source and amplification upgrades, else you'll never hear just how good SBLs are.

stuart.ashen posted:

No, Billy Vee, but if I get gerzumped I will be blaming you!

They need a xover but otherwise look good. Waiting for the boss to come home and approve the colour but strong chance that it is a good solution to my problem. I would probably keep my old black ones as insurance.

Might treat them to a new xover and a gasket kit of course. Cheers again to Paul for the suggestion. 

stu.

Bloody hell, I've just seen the price. Get down there first thing in the morning! Or camp outside overnight. Even with new crossovers and some of Tom Tom's replacement grilles, you will have a bargain. 

Hi HH,

email sent, and I already treated my originals to new foam from Tom Tom earlier this year. Very smart they look too.

They really are a classic and I have no desire to get anything 'better' ��

Stu

Actually, there is something significantly better... keep an eye out. 

What? Where?

Have to confess that I am listening to my '89 originals and they sound fantastic! I am sure they must have detiorated over nearly 30 years of use but you wouldn't think so sitting here now!

So, what have you spotted?

Intrigued,

Stu

I've not spotted anything, apologies for the confusion. I was simply suggesting, too cryptically, that you should keep an eye out for some SL2s. 

I'm the realm of SBLs though, provided they're in as good nick as they look, those BV ones should be snapped up at that price.

Ahh HH,

well they do look lovely, especially in your newly decorated room! (Clearly lurking here too much now I am retired).

Thing is, I planned to upgrade to them years ago and they didn't do much for me on dem. Better hi fi but less involving than my beloved SBLs. Still great speakers but lacking in boogy for me at the time. Put the money into electronics instead...

Thats not to say I wouldn't enjoy a pair at the right price! This was a comparative rather than an absolute judgement.

Stu

Dave T,

yes, I am very interested. It really is down to how well they match the existing wood in my lounge (ie will I get permission from the boss).

Mind you, if I dont buy them, Paul has had a nice advert for them in this thread 

Stu