SBLs

Hi all,

Thanks for the advice. I have done much of the above. There are financial constraints on me currently regarding cables and upgrades and I just want to get the best out of what I have for now. I'm going to try rearranging my set up over the next week and paying a visit to my local dealer - Cymbiosis - to see what can be done...

The reality of my Hi-Fi situation and how I've ended up here is this:

I had an pair of Mordaunt Short MS 5.50s as my first 'proper speakers' that I powered with a Technics SU-A600 and read CDs using a Technics SL-PS700. I was really happy with this system for years...

Then one day I was given a Naim CD5 which was both a blessing and a curse. I felt like everything else in my system was a bottle neck so I went a bought a pair of Naim SBLs second hand for £600 and then a Rega Elex-R new for £800. I'm spent out for now. The cables I'm using are Van Damme Blue Series Studio.

What would you guys have done with a Naim CD5 and £1400 to spend on Hi-Fi?

Hi Johny2shoes,

can't answer that as we would all do something different. However source first suggests most on an amp and least on speakers and stands. Just one way to answer your question.

Stu

Johnny2Shoes posted:

What would you guys have done with a Naim CD5 and £1400 to spend on Hi-Fi?

First, don't beat yourself up. Your set just needs optimising. A half decent rack (Ikea?), good wires (I'm sorry, I dont know your VdH ones but someone will) and plenty of attention to detail in the setup of your new SBLs. New foams at around £55 did wonders for mine. This can be a nice set for you.

Then enjoy your music and get on with your life.

Regards, Chris

naim_nymph posted:

Frank Abela posted:

Basic tests first:

• Are the speakers sealed properly? The bass/midrange unit should come back slowly when pressed in with your fingertips, literally 3 seconds or more to return to rest. If it comes straight back out, then the gasket seal is broken and needs to be re-made.
• Are the speakers near the wall behind them? Typically SBLs must be up against a wall to provide bass reinforcement. These are not speakers which like any space behind them. There are exceptions to this rule, but they really are exceptions.
• Are the speakers dead square to the listening position? This is usual for best results. Toeing in the speakers is not usually successful.
• Are the speakers in the equilateral triangle positions to the listening seat? In other words, they should be as far apart from each other as they are from the listening position. Placing them closer together can give a congested confused sound. Placing them further can cause a hole in the middle.
• Is the top box and frame touching the bass/mid box? This is bad. The top box should stand free and the bottom surface should be parallel to the mid-box's top surface.
• What interconnect are you using between CD and amp? Typically, I'd suggest a Chord Crimson DIN-2phono or a HiLine if you're feeling flush.
• What speaker cable? I always use and recommend NACA5 for Rega amps. It's a brilliant combination.
• Are you using the original power cables of both CD and Rega? If not, try them!
• Are they plugged into the wall or a multiway block? If the latter is it surge protected or a power conditioner? If it is, that will be doing you no favours at all. 
• Do you have other electronics plugged into the same distribution block? If they are modern things like TV, set top box, games console, unplug them and see what happens. You want to plug those sorts of things into a conditioned block to keep their noise away from the HiFi.

If you've checked the above, and you're still unhappy, try to describe what's wrong and maybe we can help.

Frank.

Good post, Frank

however you should delete the part i've highlighted due it being complete rubbish! : D

Debs

Nope! You're wrong.

Frank.

Johnny,

I too looked askance at your electronics, but on reflection decided not to mention it because of the following:

I do recall using 72/140 to drive SBLs successfully. The Elex-R is a very capable amp, and it can drive almost anything. So although you won't be getting the best from them, it shouldn't be a dreadful mismatch.

The CD5 is a very good CD player. It's older equivalent would've been the CDi. Some would say that's a better machine, but I'd argue there's probably not much in it, though the 5 isn't as exuberant as the CDi I suspect.

So there you go. Although the SBLs are not an automatic match and capable of far more, these electronics should at least serve well. However, the cabling is another issue entirely. I don't know the van damme stuff but it gets good reviews. If/when the funds allow, consider the suggestions made above, and ask Peter to lend you the Naim cables. But not before funds allow!

Frank.

HH,

an update. Have agreed to buy the SBLs at Billy Vee including a new xover and gasket/pad kit. My black ones will be safely stored as insurance against future failure of the Mk 2s. 

Johnny,

good luck with your SBLs. If you end up liking them very little else will do!

Stu

Time to come clean guys!

Which forum member tried to gerzump me on those SBLs at the weekend? Can't say I blame you, especially at the price. All's fair in love and hi fi it seems....

Wryly amused, and if you do come clean I can pm you how good they are 

Thank you Paul for your proffesional standards as ever. And I know I only have myself to blame for being so open in this place (although I could blame Hungry H for his enquiry....)

Johnny, how are you getting on with your SBLs?

Stu

Firstly, thanks to @FRANK ABELA for his considered response above.

So I know that you would all do something different with £1400 and a Naim CD5. I'm not after a definitive answer but I'm interested to see your ideas - if you do have any then please let me know.

Johnny, Are you saying you are considering keeping the CD5 and selling the Elex-R and SBLs? And then choosing another amp and speakers to the value of £1400?

As I outlined above (as one of the three people who responded) I'd stick rather than twist, and just optimise what you have.

Chris

I agree with Chris.

Live with the system and get a feel for the SBLs. You should at least get to know their basic characteristics (fast, accurate, musical and very revealing). If you like them over an extended time they can take you a very long way up the ladder of sources and amplifiers should that be your intention.

In the interim I would save for something like a s/h 72/hicap/140 or 250. That would make them sing (although getting a dem might be impossibe).

Stu

Your welcome to come and have a listen to my SBL`s  , did you say you are located in Loughborough? 10 miles from me!

Personally I would listen to them and see how they sound before immediately spending a load of money on them.  

My experience:

I got a lovely pair a few years ago from Alastair at Signals.  They were mint, and transported very carefully.  You are supposed to rebuild them after each move, and I even had (and still have) a new gasket kit.  However when I got them home and set them up they sounded amazing so I never bothered rebuilding them.  They are sealed very well, probably too well in fact but it means there is no risk of them 'blowing a gasket' so to speak.

Servicing & replacement crossovers:  Many people say this will renew the life of the speakers.  This is true, but again, i'd listen to them first.  I let my OCD get the better of me recently and purchased some brand new crossovers from Naim, however, listening tests between old and new was a strange one.  The old ones actually sounded better (and yes I gave them plenty of burn in time).  They were more open and ever so slightly more crisp.  So I sold them.  It's possible that I have just become so accustomed to the current sound that I do not want it to change.  I guess my point is don't get too pent up about replacing tweeters and drivers etc unless something is broken.  Mine are an old set and while they look new (also bought new grills from Tomtom) they just sound so nice.  I will not be selling them anytime soon!

Finally, if they were £400 - £500 pounds already, surely spending another £200 - £350  (possibly more) changing parts on them, is going to make them a less economical choice?

SBL's can sound 'dry' and not as bass heavy as some speakers, but give them time and you will come to love the great midrange and crisp sound.  Add a power amp if you like more thump.  Mine go to outrageous volumes vie my UQ2, Nac 32, Hi-Cap and Nap 100.

Good luck!

Good post Lewis!

A bit of time listening and learning their basic sound before spending his cash on new parts will ensure long term satisfaction (or an early sale).

My new pair are effectively an upgrade as they are Mk2. New xover was needed though as they had been driven actively by their former owner. Looking forward to firing them up!

Stu

Lewis posted:

SBL's can sound 'dry' and not as bass heavy as some speakers, but give them time and you will come to love the great midrange and crisp sound.

....Not forgetting the tight as a chuff bass that works so well in allegedly 'tricky' rooms.

C.

How long would the drivers and tweeters on a SBL last? Would buying a good pair of 20 years old SBL be wise?

silklee posted:

How long would the drivers and tweeters on a SBL last? Would buying a good pair of 20 years old SBL be wise?

Mine were made in June 97. No probs with drivers or tweeters. The only problem is what record to put on next.

C.

What about servicing SL2s? Mine are at least 12 years old. Are they due some work? Not noticed any sound degradation - quite the opposite in my new house/listening room.

Silklee,

had the same thoughts this year as my SBLs are nearly 30 years old (but still sounding great). My solution was to buy some really late mk2 at a good price and treat them to a new paxo from Naim and new grills from Tomtom. Under 600 all in for a true classic. Naim still supply tweeters too should I need them.

There is nothing out there new that delivers in quite the same way. I was cutting edge back in the day, happy to now be anachronistic...

Stu

I have the same dilemma, having most of the system serviced and DR'd. My SL2's are 2007 vintage, they have had a new set of tweeters (matched from Naim). But I'm wondering about the cross overs. Manu at Plurison says they should be OK for a while yet and can be serviced. However I am reliably informed that Naim cannot supply any new cross overs.

Tim

Hi Timbo,

I emailed Naim re parts for SBLs and got a very speedy and positive response. SL2 paxos are electrically identical to SBLs but in a different case. Mine are brand new so I would be surprised if they were not available for your 'speakers. However, 2007 makes them babies! Loads of life in them yet, and I mean decades!

Stu

Can the SBL paxo be recapped/serviced?

silklee posted:

Can the SBL paxo be recapped/serviced?

Technically, yes. Though when I asked, Naim didn't offer it because the cost would be about the same as having a new set made. Witch Hat said they'd service them, and quoted a similar price. So not much use for SBL owners, but could be useful for SL2s.

If you subscribe to the let them hang free school as regards the Xovers the SL2 ones fit in between the frame of the SBLs  quite nicely.

A little bend is required on the treble cable to align properly with the SBL sockets.

A search might find you a post I made about fitting Sl2 Xovers to it's older brother.

Hi, I am trying to find pictures of the SBL mk1 vs mk2 drivers but to no avail. I have done a search and the closest I could find is this...

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/sbl-mk1-or-mk2

Richard Dane seems to have posted a photo of them in one of the post but I can only see a 'x' in it now.

Can someone point me to some photos showing the differences?

Seems like this site

http://www.sbls.co.uk/

which used to have a lot of information on SBL is also no longer available.