Inexpensive streamer to start - Pioneer N50?

The Apple solution is convienient, but not really great in  SQ terms. The transport clock is not particularly stable and all 44.1 kHz sample rated audio is re upsampled by it and so is not bit perfect. Streaming AAC or MP3 this probably doesn't matter, but with PCM I find the Apple AirportExpress, no doubt because of its compromises, seems to rob life and therefore enjoyment from the music. There are better entry level streaming solutions for music where you can kick back and enjoy....

Simon,

I don't disagree, but would say that of all of the stops on my journey in streaming so far, there are only a couple that I would warn against in hindsight, even though all gave me some valuable insights.  AirPort Express is not one of them, because it is so inexpensive, and it has many uses in addition to HiFi.

I would forego the Sonos Connect, because I liked the Squeezebox Touch, Mac Mini sound quality better, all into the Naim DAC; and I already had both before the Connect.

I would not have bought the ND without FM, because trading up for it was expensive, and I underestimated how important FM is, to me, and how good a job the NDX does with FM, especially where I live.

Not too many regrets, all said and done.

Regards,

Nick

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

The Apple solution is convienient, but not really great in  SQ terms . . .

There are better entry level streaming solutions for music where you can kick back and enjoy....

Simon -

To paraphrase Nick, I don't necessarily disagree, but if there's a less expensive way to begin to explore streaming given what I already owned, I'm unaware of it.  For $69 I was able to walk in to an Apple store, buy an AE, and was streaming music from my MBP to my hifi within about 10 minutes.  No muss, no fuss.

As I noted in my first post, this is a secondary source at best, and more likely a tertiary one.  And with 2500 or so CDs, it's going to take a while to rip them all, and I have better things to do with my life than wait for CDs to rip. 

As for SQ, is it as good as the Pioneer feeding the 563?  No, but it's better than I thought it might be, perhaps because the 563 has a sophisticated (for the time!) de-jitter/re-clocking circuit, so the AE errors might not be as noticeable as they might be on other DACs. 

Hi both - yes I agree my AE has many uses - not least acting a good multicast capable wifi access point - but I have always been (very) disappointed by its audio capabilities and don't bother now - not even for temporary mashups. The Apple TV (not the very latest offering) is better in this regard and although still up samples everything to 48kHz it does tend to sound better than the little AE - perhaps the transport clock is more stable?

So yes if you have nothing else the AE will introduce you to Airplay end points which I guess is a way into the very Apple centric view of streaming... but I was assuming SQ rather than architectural concepts were more important but if I have this wrong please excuse me.

BTW in my experience for consumer 'stuff' - I'd say my  Sonos Connect outperform my various Apple  Airplay/AE devices in terms of reliability. The Sonos really is plug and play and just works. The Apple works well for the majority of time but in my experience Airplay just stops working from time to time for no apparent reason. A restart or refresh always clears it however - or sometimes it clears itself with no intervention required after a period of time.

But enjoy which ever path you go down - I'm sure its just a stepping stone to better streaming later when you are ready for it.

BTW these days I can't think of a single DAC that does not de jitter the sample stream from the transport stream these days,( long gone are the days where DACs derived their clocks from the SPDIF transport)  however when the noise or variation in the transport clock is modulated to some extent by the media content - which I believe has been shown to happen with the AE then this noise modulation does cross talk through system despite almost perfect de jittering of the extracted sample  stream by the DAC....

S

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

 I was assuming SQ rather than architectural concepts were more important but if I have this wrong please excuse me.

Simon -

SQ will be more important in the future, but as a very inexpensive way to begin experimenting with streaming the AE is well worth it.  Given my limited listening time, and the time it would take to rip my CDs, streaming will mainly be for internet radio and the like.  I'm now teaching, as opposed to working in the telecom sector or practicing law, so financial considerations loom larger than in the past, and I'd rather spend money on the main system, specifically the CD source at this point.  I lucked in to a CD5i Mk2, which should be here just in time for me to leave for a camping trip, but will be able to listen to it once we return. 

Just don't let the AE discourage you from streaming.  If it sounds good enough that is great. It is a gateway to better products.

Bob - ok good luck and have fun - hopefully you will see that all this streaming malarky is actually all quite straight forward.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Bob - ok good luck and have fun - hopefully you will see that all this streaming malarky is actually all quite straight forward.

 

Simon -

Ha!  I used to be the manager of IP backbone planning for a large US telecom, so this stuff is easy.    Just have to wade through all the BS companies . . .

1   There are much better software solutions for ripping CDs than iTunes (including DBPoweramp for OSX)

2   A mac mini can perfectly well be used as a store for Music files - either using Audirvana and a DAC or using Asset for OSX (for UPnP) and a streamer.

3   I don't know enough about Macs, but I don't see why a (Mac compattible) 3rd party USB DVD drive can't be used for ripping CDs.

Ah, the difficult ones!

If the disk is read correctly (i.e. no uncorrectable errors) then all drives are the same.

If there are uncorrectable errors then DBPoweramp tries to read the error sectors multiple times and uses statistical methods to try to work out the best approximation to what should have been there.  Note that it only needs to do this with disks that are so damaged that they usually won't actually play on most CD players.  Some drive are a bit better here than others (usually the ones that correctly report C2 error codes, but not always!).

My streaming days started with the SP/DIF output from my PC getting fed into the SP/DIF input on the Pioneer PDR609 CD writer. I soon upgraded to a high quality lead (i.e. Chord). I realised it was the future and soon invested in a Naim UnitiQte. While the digital source is excellent, it does not beat vinyl, apart from the convenience factor! 

Hi Bob,

interesting post as I bought a pioneer n50 last December to gain some experience in streaming. It is very easy to use and you do not need a full NAS set-up with it to get going as it will play internet radio/Spotify and USB drives which will also allow you to experiment with high res downloads and play your cd collection. Since I bought it, I've added a NAS and will probably add a Naim dac in a few months. Overall a very affordable way to learn about streaming and if you don't like it, can auction it on the web and lose very little money. No regret so far. 

Kind of jumping in at the end here based on the title. I've heard the N50 and it is probably pretty good for GBP 350. It is very hi spec but not as musical in the way the streaming section of a UQ2 is which goes to show specs aren't everything. But again, at the price, I feel it was a performer that punches a bit above its class.