Sound signature Nap 250 DR vs. Nap 300 DR

I have. I'm not sure there is a difference in the warmth between the two but the 300DR has better, deeper bass control and gives a bigger soundstage. Indeed it makes you think you've speakers have grown!

As ever, it's all a question of personal hearing, but when I went from 250 to 300, I much preferred the presentation of the 300.

I belonged, at the time, to the camp which found the 250 too dark, dare I say, flabby sounding.

This was pre DR days, so maybe not a fair comparison with current offerings.

Last year I went for 300 DR.........a real game changer.

You really do need to do an A / B, at home, if this is possible, and let your ears, (and wallet!), decide.

Thank you for sharing gents... Read a review recently from Hifi Critic which noted the 300 DR had a "touch of brightness", I believe were the words the reviewer used, compared to the "old" 300 that had a slight hint of warmth/darkness in its sound signature. I found this concerning as I enjoyed the sound signature of the 250 DR, but frankly it is the 300 DR I have my mind set on. However, I won't be able to demo it until sometime late August and thought I would reach out and enjoy the collective knowledge present on this forrum in the meantime. 

I do like my sound with a small hint of warmth (darkness if you will), and thus if the 300 DR has a brighter signature, albeit bigger soundstage, bas control etc. it may still be a deal breaker for me. Then I will most like consider and XPS DR or 555PS DR power supply for the NAC N 272 right of the get go (with a 250 DR) and spend my money there...

More comments and hands on experiences are most welcome:-)

Hi Nichola

I have heard the 250DR and the 300DR back-to-back on a couple of occasions.  Their sonic signature seemed on both occasions to be similar, with the 300DR bridging the gap from excellent hifi to wonderful music with a 272/XPSDR pre-amp.

However, neither will overcome the slight tendency of the Audiovector SR3 AA to beam its treble at you.  I am aware of this aspect of that loudspeaker, having auditioned a pair in my system for several weeks.

Best regards, FT

Last year I had a listen to a 272 through 250DR and 300DR, both into small, easily driven Kudos X2 speakers. Initially, I was really impressed with the ability of the 300 to take these little speakers by the scruff of the neck and control them. It was impressive, fun and exciting to listen to, but ultimately, a bit too much of an untamed beast, and a combination I couldn't really live with. At the time, I posted about it here that I thought the 272 was a bit of a mullet when put with the 300DR, which caused a bit of a stir at the time, but I think it's probably fair to say that the 300 was showing the limitations of the source. An XPS would go a long way to rectifying that problem, although I still think amplification of that quality deserves a better source altogether, at least an NDX.

If you're currently running a 272/250, I would certainly suggest adding an XPS before changing the power amp.

I should have added to my earlier comment earlier that when I demo'd the 250DR against a 300DR it was using a high quality CD source (in my profile) and a 282 with SuperCapDR + full SL loom.  The 300DR is plenty capable of revealing weaknesses early in the chain so although it's a better power-amp than the 250DR, the 250DR might still be the better choice in a suitably balanced system.   

Foot Tapper, you are spot on with respect to the SR3 AA, but they do look amazing in white piano lacquer and also give off a lot of sound, their relative small size considered... and I do enjoy the air and detail in that ribbon tweeter... going back to the looks, they were also approved by the wife as one of the only floor standing speakers she would let into the house!

For such reasons, I am not going to be able to upgrade them just yet, which is also fine as generally I do enjoy their sound. They won't be upgraded before we are talking upgrading to a bigger place...and that unfortunately is a bit out of reach at the moment. Therefore, the focus is on the electronics, which can be nicely stored away in I hifi furniture I recently acquired;-)

I would also advise adding a XPS dr power supply, I have heard the difference on both the 272 and the NDX which I use it totally transforms both. 

ChrisSU posted:

 I posted about it here that I thought the 272 was a bit of a mullet when put with the 300DR, which caused a bit of a stir at the time,

 

I agree 100%, the 300DR does indeed expose the shortcomings of that pre. and definitely should be paired with the higher spec Naim pre-amps. 

The reason why people praise the combo of the 250DR and 272, I feel it is because the two are at the same level and should be used together because they really do compliment each other.

The 300 is really on another level, and should be paired accordingly. At least a 252 , 552 even better!

Just as an aside, I recently did a home demo of the 250/272 also a 202/200DR, against the Supernait2, my ears told me the difference were very small between the three combos, I purchased the SN2, if that helps you out in any way. Just to put that in perspective, I told myself I would never purchase another Naim product, the SN2 made a liar out of me!

I personally preferred the SN2 presentation to the 200/202 combo, whether it was "better" than that combo, I won't say, but I know what I believe to be true, it's a personal thing, and I get that, but I do have a hard time believing the talk of MASSIVE differences of what I read here, especially after recent auditions of these combos! 

I do think the SN2 definitely sounded more powerful and had better impact than the 200/202 combo, and while I can fully understand the feeling that  some  prefer the 250/272 to the SN2, the differences were not worth the extra money, especially with the addition of the HicapDR to the SN2, at least it wasn't worth the additional cost to these ears.

In other words, get the 300 DR!!!!

If the question is: should I upgrade a 272/250DR by adding an XPSDR or by replacing the 250DR with a 300DR, then I would suggest an XPSDR as the more musically fulfilling way to go that will provide longer term musical satisfaction, especially with the Audiovector Sr3AA, which is a relatively benign load.

Hope this helps, FT

Aha, I believe a bit of clarity is needed. My SR3 AA speakers are active with Audiovectors own Discrete active system. My dealer is willing to let me trade in these speakers for a passive set and then buy a NAC N 272 with either a NAP 300 DR or 250 DR. My thinking is to go down the route of the 272/300 combo and then later add a XPS DR or 555PS DR to the 272.

The initial intention with the question posted was to receive some clarity concerning if the NAP 300 DR is brighter sounding than the NAP 250 DR, which does not seem to be the case/opinion of the gents posting.

However, the point raised concerning the NAP 300 DR outperforming the 272 is interesting. If someone has insights and experience concerning weather or not the 300 DR becomes more harmonious (suitably matched) with a 272 with one of the suggested power supplies, I am all ears. 

MDS posted:

I have. I'm not sure there is a difference in the warmth between the two but the 300DR has better, deeper bass control and gives a bigger soundstage. Indeed it makes you think you've speakers have grown!

Hi MDS

+1 and much better grip, drive and verve.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Nicholaj posted:

I am all ears. 

So it looks like you are starting again with your entire system, including the speakers? I'm not familiar with the Audiovectors, so bear that in mind with respect to my earlier comments. Are they hard to drive to the point that they really need the 300? If so, do you compromise on your source in order to accommodate them, or do you look at other speakers if that's what it takes to get a balanced system?  Either way, the first thing I'd do is get your dealer to earn his money by letting you listen to the 272/300, and compare it to both 272/XPS/250 and an NDX based system. Give those ears some work to do! 

It's beneficial to upgrade the components in front end first. They will set the foundation for those at the tail end. The 272, although good in its own right, is still a gap away from separate pre and power amp systems. The addition of a xps or 555ps may elevate its performance but it's still not as good as a 282/252 with a cap. The 300dr is more suitable for at least a 282/252 and above preamp. The slight differences seen between a 250dr and 300dr with a 272 fronting it does give some clue on what's holding it back. In the context of a 282 and above pre, the differences between a 250 and 300 is massive and I will expect the same for the dr versions as well.

Then again going the separate pre power route would also mean rebuilding the system from scratch again.

I've previously heard a cd555/supernait/500/dbl setup and it sounded awful. Do not under estimate what a good preamp can bring to your system.

Musicraft (Derby) posted:

MDS posted:

I have. I'm not sure there is a difference in the warmth between the two but the 300DR has better, deeper bass control and gives a bigger soundstage. Indeed it makes you think you've speakers have grown!

Hi MDS

+1 and much better grip, drive and verve.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick, can you comment on if you think the Nap 300 DR is well matched with the NAC N 272 and XPS? Or would you say it doesn't do it justice and requires a 555PS DR, or one has to go the separates way with a pre (282/252) combined with a NDX? ... and then also increase the box count even further which I feel is becoming a bit excessive. 

ChrisSU posted:

Nicholaj posted:

I am all ears. 

So it looks like you are starting again with your entire system, including the speakers? I'm not familiar with the Audiovectors, so bear that in mind with respect to my earlier comments. Are they hard to drive to the point that they really need the 300? If so, do you compromise on your source in order to accommodate them, or do you look at other speakers if that's what it takes to get a balanced system?  Either way, the first thing I'd do is get your dealer to earn his money by letting you listen to the 272/300, and compare it to both 272/XPS/250 and an NDX based system. Give those ears some work to do! 

Valid points, thanks. 

The Audiovectors are an easy load, but they lap up increased performance quite well. Recently heard them with a Gryphon Diablo 300. Lots of grip, detail and sound staging... but to my ears lacked the nerve I heard with a 250/272 combo. I also know they were voiced on  the "old" NAP 500... I have visited Audiovector a few times, whom is located in Denmark where I am from.

After the 250/272 experience, my thinking has thus been what can be expected from the increased performance of the electronics I am questioning in this thread. 

As an owner of a 272/XPSDR/250DR, and speakers that will hold their own in a 500 system I'd say this: the XPS makes a massive difference and turns the 272 into something entirely different from the bare version, so if it's a choice between a 272/300 or a 272/XPS/250, get the latter. 

The 250DR sounds to me very much like the old 300 that I used to own, so I wouldn't worry unduly about the sound signature of the two. The 300 will give a bigger sound, but it's the power supply on the 272 that's really the game changer here. 

I must reinforce HH's comments you need to hear the differnce a XPS dr power supply will make.

At the Bristol Show this year  Naim were clearly able to demonstrate this fact, after the demo I enquired with the Naim staff as the best way to upgrade my system which was a NDX running into a 82,Supercap and 250 Olive set up the unoquivical responce was add a XPS to the NDX.

At the demo I was so impressed with the 250dr driving both Sopra N1 and N2 speakers that I decided to investigate the 250dr further, after several discussions and demo's at my local dealer my new system was installed a couple of weeks ago,all I can say is that the 250dr in a balanced system is an absolutley stonking amplifier it just does everthing so right including emptying your bank account!!

Nicholaj posted:

Foot Tapper, you are spot on with respect to the SR3 AA, but they do look amazing in white piano lacquer and also give off a lot of sound, their relative small size considered... and I do enjoy the air and detail in that ribbon tweeter... going back to the looks, they were also approved by the wife as one of the only floor standing speakers she would let into the house!

For such reasons, I am not going to be able to upgrade them just yet, which is also fine as generally I do enjoy their sound. They won't be upgraded before we are talking upgrading to a bigger place...and that unfortunately is a bit out of reach at the moment. Therefore, the focus is on the electronics, which can be nicely stored away in I hifi furniture I recently acquired;-)

Is that the latest version of the sr3 AA? Unless they are used in a room with very little damping I do not have a problem with the treble, but for those who have there is the possibility to tone down with the switches on the bak. Also I suppose they are on spikes. With music with a bright or hard trebel this will be revealed but I have very little music I find unplesent because of that.

Claus   

Nicholaj posted:

Foot Tapper, you are spot on with respect to the SR3 AA, but they do look amazing in white piano lacquer and also give off a lot of sound, their relative small size considered... and I do enjoy the air and detail in that ribbon tweeter... going back to the looks, they were also approved by the wife as one of the only floor standing speakers she would let into the house!

For such reasons, I am not going to be able to upgrade them just yet, which is also fine as generally I do enjoy their sound. They won't be upgraded before we are talking upgrading to a bigger place...and that unfortunately is a bit out of reach at the moment. Therefore, the focus is on the electronics, which can be nicely stored away in I hifi furniture I recently acquired;-)

 

wich speaker cables are you using?

Nicholaj posted:

Hi Rick, can you comment on if you think the Nap 300 DR is well matched with the NAC N 272 and XPS? Or would you say it doesn't do it justice and requires a 555PS DR, or one has to go the separates way with a pre (282/252) combined with a NDX? ... and then also increase the box count even further which I feel is becoming a bit excessive. 

On the sidelines soaking up information.

 Haven't entered the World Of Streaming, but I can see why, the 272/250DR is a sweet spot.

 On the other hand the 300DR is Naims darling 2-BOX amp, worthy of a 552, less known a 282.

Good luck with your decision.

 Allante93!

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

Nicholaj posted:

Foot Tapper, you are spot on with respect to the SR3 AA, but they do look amazing in white piano lacquer and also give off a lot of sound, their relative small size considered... and I do enjoy the air and detail in that ribbon tweeter... going back to the looks, they were also approved by the wife as one of the only floor standing speakers she would let into the house!

For such reasons, I am not going to be able to upgrade them just yet, which is also fine as generally I do enjoy their sound. They won't be upgraded before we are talking upgrading to a bigger place...and that unfortunately is a bit out of reach at the moment. Therefore, the focus is on the electronics, which can be nicely stored away in I hifi furniture I recently acquired;-)

 

wich speaker cables are you using?

Currently Chord Epic Twin as it is able to carry both the music signal and power to my active speakers. When I go passive, I will be going with the Chord Signature. I had this cable before I went active - Used to own a SuperUniti and NAP 200. Great speaker cable and will be going down the same route again, albeit with the latest version of the cable. 

Try the Super Lumina speaker cables before you go with the Chords. They work fabulously well with the DR power amps. 

The DR250 sounds warmer. The DR300 sounds better ........ by a surprising margin, in every way imaginable. A friend with a 272/XPS has just made that change, and I've heard it.

Another friend is running a 552/DR300 to fabulous effect.

The DR300 is surely the killer in the current range of Naim power-amps in terms of bang for the buck, as far as I'm concerned.

John.

 

wich speaker cables are you using?

Currently Chord Epic Twin as it is able to carry both the music signal and power to my active speakers. When I go passive, I will be going with the Chord Signature. I had this cable before I went active - Used to own a SuperUniti and NAP 200. Great speaker cable and will be going down the same route again, albeit with the latest version of the cable. 

I did not know there was a reference version, mine is the old  one. I would really like something more flexible. Running 3 ppairs of cable does not make cable dressing easier!