Sound signature Nap 250 DR vs. Nap 300 DR

J.N. posted:

The DR250 sounds warmer. The DR300 sounds better ........ by a surprising margin, in every way imaginable. A friend with a 272/XPS has just made that change, and I've heard it.

Another friend is running a 552/DR300 to fabulous effect.

The DR300 is surely the killer in the current range of Naim power-amps in terms of bang for the buck, as far as I'm concerned.

John.

+1 to that, I'm running 552 DR with a 300 DR, full loom SL cables, and this combo is stunning.

That'll be no more upgrades for me then. 

dave marshall posted:

J.N. posted:

The DR250 sounds warmer. The DR300 sounds better ........ by a surprising margin, in every way imaginable. A friend with a 272/XPS has just made that change, and I've heard it.

Another friend is running a 552/DR300 to fabulous effect.

The DR300 is surely the killer in the current range of Naim power-amps in terms of bang for the buck, as far as I'm concerned.

John.

+1 to that, I'm running 552 DR with a 300 DR, full loom SL cables, and this combo is stunning.

That'll be no more upgrades for me then. 

I think J.N. is running: (CD555 - Linn LP12/Radikal/Keel/Urika - Aro/Linn Kandid - 552 - 500 - Kudos Titans -  Fraim)

RICHARD DANE ADMINISTRATOR

""A simple way to look at it is this; there's power (NAP = Naim Audio Power) and then there's control (NAC = Naim Audio Control). And power is useless without control... ""

Posted by another Forum Member: 

""First Guide Line get the Best Source with best level of Amplification:

2nd Guideline Ensure the pre is on the same lever or better than Amp: ""

Perhaps the 272 is up to the task!

Good Luck on your decision!

Repeat, just soaking up information from those with hands on experience! Nice Post! 

Allante93!

J.N. posted:

The DR250 sounds warmer. The DR300 sounds better ........ by a surprising margin, in every way imaginable. A friend with a 272/XPS has just made that change, and I've heard it.

Another friend is running a 552/DR300 to fabulous effect.

The DR300 is surely the killer in the current range of Naim power-amps in terms of bang for the buck, as far as I'm concerned.

John.

John, in your experience would you then say the 300DR combined with the 272/XPS still does the 300 justice.

I have no doubt the 552/300DR is a great sounding solution but unfortunately out of my budget. On top of that, considering I would have to get a streamer and potentially a separate power supply to make the most of it does not help. 

However, the 300DR/272/XPS does sound like an enticing combination and so the question then becomes is it balanced?

Allante93 posted:

RICHARD DANE ADMINISTRATOR

""A simple way to look at it is this; there's power (NAP = Naim Audio Power) and then there's control (NAC = Naim Audio Control). And power is useless without control... ""

Posted by another Forum Member: 

""First Guide Line get the Best Source with best level of Amplification:

2nd Guideline Ensure the pre is on the same lever or better than Amp: ""

Perhaps the 272 is up to the task!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very good point, thank you. 

Nicholaj posted:

Allante93 posted:

RICHARD DANE ADMINISTRATOR

""A simple way to look at it is this; there's power (NAP = Naim Audio Power) and then there's control (NAC = Naim Audio Control). And power is useless without control... ""

Posted by another Forum Member: 

""First Guide Line get the Best Source with best level of Amplification:

2nd Guideline Ensure the pre is on the same lever or better than Amp: ""

Perhaps the 272 is up to the task!

 

 

Very good point, thank you. 

.... and just to add, yes that really is the million dollar question now - Is the 272/XPS or potentially with a 555PS DR up for a NAP300 DR?

Nicholaj posted:

.... and just to add, yes that really is the million dollar question now - Is the 272/XPS or potentially with a 555PS DR up for a NAP300 DR?

I see your logic, can't go wrong with Naim's best PS, and the 2-box 300DR.

And if you decide down the road, the 272 can be replaced with a 552, or serve as a 2nd system!

Out!

Enjoy your Music!

J.N. posted:

The DR250 sounds warmer. The DR300 sounds better ........ by a surprising margin, in every way imaginable. A friend with a 272/XPS has just made that change, and I've heard it.

Another friend is running a 552/DR300 to fabulous effect.

The DR300 is surely the killer in the current range of Naim power-amps in terms of bang for the buck, as far as I'm concerned.

John.

I would like to give my input but I've been waiting 2 months now for Naim to build my 300DR.

dave marshall posted:

J.N. posted:

The DR250 sounds warmer. The DR300 sounds better ........ by a surprising margin, in every way imaginable. A friend with a 272/XPS has just made that change, and I've heard it.

Another friend is running a 552/DR300 to fabulous effect.

The DR300 is surely the killer in the current range of Naim power-amps in terms of bang for the buck, as far as I'm concerned.

John.

+1 to that, I'm running 552 DR with a 300 DR, full loom SL cables, and this combo is stunning.

That'll be no more upgrades for me then. 

Me too. 

Nicholaj posted:

.... and just to add, yes that really is the million dollar question now - Is the 272/XPS or potentially with a 555PS DR up for a NAP300 DR?

Well I know the NAC-N-172 XS sounds fantastic on the NAP300. In my experience when driving larger speakers in larger rooms the NAP300 takes some beating.

I wanted to upgrade my Superuniti and decided to start by putting a power amp on it.  The 300dr was at the price point to be the amp I would buy and keep. I didn't want to go from 200 to 250 and then onto the 300 and waste a load of money in the process. 

I went to my dealer and did the right thing and listened to a SU through the 300dr and the non dr 250 (they didn't have the 250dr available). I totally fell in love with the 300, I was gobsmacked by how good it was. The 250 was offered to me for a bargain price but I just didn't want it. I bought the 300 and am enjoying it very much while waiting to see what new products Naim might be introducing in the future. I'm planning on upgrading the SU next spring and moving that to my office.

anyway my point here is that it's not necessarily a bad thing to pair a higher end amp with a lower end source. It will work and sound fine on the way to further source/preamp upgrades. I do realise I'm not hearing how good this 300 really is, I'm looking forward to finding out. 

ı choose NAP 300DR for my 272

1. had a very good deal and on a plus side dealer got it on stock while i have to wait a month or so for 250DR.

2. It is a hell of a kit. Better than 250DR with right setup ( not necessary 272 ). 

3.It is future proof for my upgrade road,  272/XPS/250 is a very good setup but there will be another one coming soon X72/555/300 so knowing my self i invested and will not lose money on 250/300 trade in.  So it is the first piece of my end game set up.  it is the las power amp that i will own. 

4. I have a big room. Planing for bigger speakers. 

If i was going to stop  with 272 i would defenitaly buy 250 not 300, if you have the upgrade bug and the budget, get the 300 

Emre posted:

ı choose NAP 300DR for my 272

1. had a very good deal and on a plus side dealer got it on stock while i have to wait a month or so for 250DR.

2. It is a hell of a kit. Better than 250DR with right setup ( not necessary 272 ). 

3.It is future proof for my upgrade road,  272/XPS/250 is a very good setup but there will be another one coming soon X72/555/300 so knowing my self i invested and will not lose money on 250/300 trade in.  So it is the first piece of my end game set up.  it is the las power amp that i will own. 

4. I have a big room. Planing for bigger speakers. 

If i was going to stop  with 272 i would defenitaly buy 250 not 300, if you have the upgrade bug and the budget, get the 300 

 

Exactly what I'm saying. 

Nicholaj posted:

J.N. posted:

The DR250 sounds warmer. The DR300 sounds better ........ by a surprising margin, in every way imaginable. A friend with a 272/XPS has just made that change, and I've heard it.

Another friend is running a 552/DR300 to fabulous effect.

The DR300 is surely the killer in the current range of Naim power-amps in terms of bang for the buck, as far as I'm concerned.

John.

John, in your experience would you then say the 300DR combined with the 272/XPS still does the 300 justice.

I have no doubt the 552/300DR is a great sounding solution but unfortunately out of my budget. On top of that, considering I would have to get a streamer and potentially a separate power supply to make the most of it does not help. 

However, the 300DR/272/XPS does sound like an enticing combination and so the question then becomes is it balanced?

Most definitely Nicholaj. The 272 sounds like it punches above its weight (and price point) and would seem to herald some very tasty results from more expensive Naim pre-streamers which are inevitably to come. 

My friend's experience was that a 555PS was overkill on the 272 and that the DR-XPS was a better 'fit'. 

The improvement I heard from 250 to 300 clearly demonstrates the ability of a 272/XPS to let one hear what the 300 is about. 

John. 

Emre posted:

ı choose NAP 300DR for my 272

1. had a very good deal and on a plus side dealer got it on stock while i have to wait a month or so for 250DR.

2. It is a hell of a kit. Better than 250DR with right setup ( not necessary 272 ). 

3.It is future proof for my upgrade road,  272/XPS/250 is a very good setup but there will be another one coming soon X72/555/300 so knowing my self i invested and will not lose money on 250/300 trade in.  So it is the first piece of my end game set up.  it is the las power amp that i will own. 

4. I have a big room. Planing for bigger speakers. 

If i was going to stop  with 272 i would defenitaly buy 250 not 300, if you have the upgrade bug and the budget, get the 300 

 

could not state it any better

I hear you Simon and EMRE !

Nap 200 = 70 watts per channel 

Nap 250 = 80 watts per channel

Nap 300 = 90 watts per channel

Nap 500 = 140 watts per channel

Statement = 1 HP ~ 740 watts per channel

""Naim amps can swing transients in a way other similarly powered amps just cannot do. But that isn't the same as a 30wpc amp being equivalent to a 60wpc amp. The fact that a Naim amp can swing those big transients sometimes better than a more powerful amp leads them to falsely believe that their constant output is higher than stated - but it isn't. That misconception might explain some negative opinions. A lot of dealers incorrectly deliver sales pitches like "30wpc of Naim is like 75wpc of Arcam" which is nonsense. Maybe a Nait can deliver a big/ger bang like the 75wpc amp but sustained output is a different story. Musically it is also a less relevant story unless your recording has very poor dynamic range. 
 
The fact is, if you are driving a consistently hard load due to volume and/or speaker load, more power will be required and there is no getting away from that. Naim cater for that with increasingly more powerful amps and the ability to go active (or bi/tri amp simply for power reasons). It costs a lot more to do this with Naim than some others but I don't see a problem in that. They are not about functionality and convenience but about delivering the best you can get and if the design decision leads to more power requiring considerably more expense to do properly then so be it.z''

Food for thought!

Allante93! 

Hi I have a 250dr with 272 sounded great.... then I added 555ps to the 272 and omg massive improvement .... so naked 272 would hold back nap300 as it was significantly holding back 250dr....

Nicholaj you will never regret buying the 300DR - it sounds fantastic with your Audiovector speakers.

Henrik

Nicholaj posted:

Musicraft (Derby) posted:

MDS posted:

I have. I'm not sure there is a difference in the warmth between the two but the 300DR has better, deeper bass control and gives a bigger soundstage. Indeed it makes you think you've speakers have grown!

Hi MDS

+1 and much better grip, drive and verve.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick, can you comment on if you think the Nap 300 DR is well matched with the NAC N 272 and XPS? Or would you say it doesn't do it justice and requires a 555PS DR, or one has to go the separates way with a pre (282/252) combined with a NDX? ... and then also increase the box count even further which I feel is becoming a bit excessive. 

Hi Nicholaj

In all fairness the separates route will get more from the NAP 300 DR however the NAC-N 272 is still strong enough to be paired with the NAP 300 DR. The NAC-N 272 only gets stronger when it is energised by the excellent XPS2 DR or the truly remarkable 555 PS DR. Fwiw, over the last eight months or so I've mostly paired our NAP 300 DR with a NAC-N 272/555 PS DR and also this week until yesterday evening with Sopra 1's

NAC-N 272/NAP 300 DR/XPS2 DR is a fab combination. 555 PS DR adds the icing on the cake

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Mr. Jensen posted:

Nicholaj you will never regret buying the 300DR

Henrik

Hi Henrik

+1 Performance is top drawer

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 My system comprises  XPSDR N-272 300DR I was running a 250DR and although the 250DR is a very capable performer the 300DR improves on it in all departments and by a considerable margin.

Warmer is a good description of the 250DR although as others have mentioned the 300DR goes deeper.

To the opp, all I can add is you will not regret owning a 300DR for one minute its a truly superb amplifier and really allows the N-272 XPSDR to show what it`s capable of and as others have said it punches way above it`s price point and makes for a very balanced and formidable package, one I am happy to live with for a long time to come. 

Musicraft (Derby) posted:

Hi Nicholaj

In all fairness the separates route will get more from the NAP 300 DR however the NAC-N 272 is still strong enough to be paired with the NAP 300 DR. The NAC-N 272 only gets stronger when it is energised by the excellent XPS2 DR or the truly remarkable 555 PS DR. Fwiw, over the last eight months or so I've mostly paired our NAP 300 DR with a NAC-N 272/555 PS DR and also this week until yesterday evening with Sopra 1's

NAC-N 272/NAP 300 DR/XPS2 DR is a fab combination. 555 PS DR adds the icing on the cake

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Thank you Rick and for that matter all of you whom have taken the time to share your experiences and insights on the topic. 

I have to say, what a great and insightful community this is!

For me, a clear picture has formed in my mind and I can't wait to audition the 300/272 combination with the XPS and 555PS. If the 555PS delivers sufficiently, I suppose my dealer will be just as thrilled as me, as I will have to take the plunge...

Many on this site argue pre first when a very large number still say source. Now, if 272, an excellent kit in its own, is at NDX/nDAC and 202/282 levels, how can we really justify going 300DR and 555PS instead of NDS and 252 first even for the box count? 

Chag -  

There's also the argument that recording and mastering quality are a larger factor than the source or pre they are played on. Given vagaries in album quality, one could find that a lesser but more forgiving source or pre offers more all around replay satisfaction than the higher level more resolving gear.

Chag... posted:

Many on this site argue pre first when a very large number still say source. Now, if 272, an excellent kit in its own, is at NDX/nDAC and 202/282 levels, how can we really justify going 300DR and 555PS instead of NDS and 252 first even for the box count? 

Chag -  

I think this has gotten close to Naim religion and may not be true in all systems. As long as you get more from updating a poweramp it makes sense. The obvious thing to do is to compare going  ndx or nds or other combinations at the same pricepoint or adding a 300. Unfortunately it is not always possible. there I am sure dealers in the UK with all the Naim equipment on display, but in other countries this is often not the case.

Claus

J.N. posted:

The DR250 sounds warmer. The DR300 sounds better ........ by a surprising margin, in every way imaginable. A friend with a 272/XPS has just made that change, and I've heard it.

Another friend is running a 552/DR300 to fabulous effect.

The DR300 is surely the killer in the current range of Naim power-amps in terms of bang for the buck, as far as I'm concerned.

John.

I'm with John on this too