200 or 250 advice and service costs

I'd say: 250. I like the sound of NAP200 - i find it's fast and has a sharp attack. NAP 250 has a weightier sound, seems to go deeper.

Used NDX - good idea at a later stage, although N272 + NAP250 is all the combo you may need.

Adam,

Thanks,  a 250 could be too much then, I live in apartments, thankfully ground floor and found the 200 and SN had more than enough weight and rumble with some music.

I guess that buying used means that you don't really lose much on the way to heaven....

if I end up with 272 & 200/250 and still not satisfied v HDX & SN that I prev owned, it wouldn't be too costly.

Ray.

My experience - The SN2 is a fine integrated only surpassed by the 282 200...the 282 is key in lifting the performance.

To my ears the 200 is a shade more transparent than the 250.2 but the latter does other good things in terms of grip, timbres, depth, tonality - That sort of thing.

I have not heard a 272.

G

I added a 200DR to my Superuniti, and the improvement was very noticeable. Sure, a 250 will be better again, with a meatier sound, as you would expect for the extra cost, but sticking with the 200 was part of my longer term upgrade plan. Initially, I thought I would aim for a 272/250, and add an XPS later, but after listening, I found that for the same cost, I preferred the NDX front end, and eventually decided on NDX/282/200DR. The reason I stuck with the 200 is that it can power a preamp, and that means I could keep to no more than 3 boxes. 

If I was in your position, buying used gear, I would probably look for an NDX and either Supernait 2 or 202/200 as my first choice. Even though I chose not to buy it, the 272/250 is still a great setup, but used 272s are still hard to come by, and if you're looking at the used market, your choice might be swayed by availability. 

Hi Ray,

my NAP140 drives a pair of PMC DB1i beautifully, so a NAP200 would be more than sufficient for your floor standing GB1i.

On this basis, I suspect that a 272+ a CB/olive 250 would be absolutely wonderful with your GB1i speakers.

 So, worth trying to pick up a serviced CB/olive 250?  Either will outplay a 200 and probably for less cost.

Best regards, FT

GraemeH, yes it is a fine machine and considering the SN club again.

Chrissu, you've probably heard it a 1000 times,  aren't you missing a trick by not putting at least a HC on your 282.  I once owned 202/200/HCdr and removed the HC for experimental reasons.  It went back on within minutes!  Thanks for the pointers and advice.

Foot Tapper, agreed, have been looking at serviced aged 250's too.

Ray.

ray sheldon posted:

Adam,

Thanks,  a 250 could be too much then, I live in apartments, thankfully ground floor and found the 200 and SN had more than enough weight and rumble with some music.

I guess that buying used means that you don't really lose much on the way to heaven....

if I end up with 272 & 200/250 and still not satisfied v HDX & SN that I prev owned, it wouldn't be too costly.

Ray.

Ray - as my esteemed colleagues have mentioned - NAP 200 (especially DR) is a very good and serious power amp. I loved how it sounded with a bare 282. 

So ineeded - you have many options. All of them will sound fantastic.

Adam

Chrissu, having said that, your 200 is dr so I guess that makes a huge difference over non dr?

Full service by Class A of my then 10 yo NAP200 was £225 inc insured shipping. That was in Sept 2014.

Delighted.

Chris_M

200DR only better than a 200 if you're powering a preamp - otherwise they're the same. If the OP is planning to end up with a 272, a 200 is as good as a 200DR, and the 200 is more likely to be available second hand at good prices.

My 200 is superb, and I seek nothing better, but I have a 172xs not a 272. The 250 is a little better, of course, so it's up to you and your wallet.

ray sheldon posted:

Chrissu, you've probably heard it a 1000 times,  aren't you missing a trick by not putting at least a HC on your 282.  I once owned 202/200/HCdr and removed the HC for experimental reasons.  It went back on within minutes!  Thanks for the pointers and advice.

 

ray sheldon posted:

Chrissu, having said that, your 200 is dr so I guess that makes a huge difference over non dr?

When I chose this setup, the brief I gave to my dealer was to find the best 3-box streaming system I could get for around the £10k mark. In that context, weather or not any of those boxes were power supplies was beside the point, as I just wanted the best sound I could get for the money. To my ears, sticking to a 200 was a compromise worth making to get the front end I wanted. If I could have fitted in a 250DR, I would, but it was the box count issue (i.e. need for a Hicap) that deterred me. So yes, at least a 200DR is giving the preamp the best possible chance to perform without adding another box.

Of course, if you're only going to use a 200 with a Superuniti or 272, there's little or no point in getting the DR version when a good used non-DR version would cost half as much.  

While I never liked the rather lardy 250.2, the 250DR is altogether different, and in another league to the 200. The 250DR is what I'd get, then upgrade to the 272 as circumstances permit. I certainly wouldn't use a 282 without a Hicap at least. 

I'd say the 250dr will be less boomy than the SU alone in your flat. It's all about the control. My 300dr has made my s400s more tight and punchy compared with the heavier sounding SU

i don't like the 250.2 either, when I tested it with the SU the sound was not too dissimilar to the SU alone. It was obviously better but still didn't have the detail and punch to it.

Hi,if you re planning to keep box count low then NDX/SN2 is the way to go.

If you aim at 250 level ,I m afraid you d waste afair bit of it,since you don t mention any 282.

272/200 should be a better balanced system for harder speakers but closer to uniti range as for source 

Just demo.

As a streaming source I can't tell the 272 and NDX apart. I think it's unhelpful to dismiss it so readily, and anyone looking for a two box setup should try the alternatives for themselves. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

As a streaming source I can't tell the 272 and NDX apart. I think it's unhelpful to dismiss it so readily, and anyone looking for a two box setup should try the alternatives for themselves. 

During my listening sessions I found that I consistently preferred the NDX systems over 272, so you're quite right, everyone needs to listen for themselves. Not that I'm trying to push my opinion as any more valid than yours, I'm sure you've done your homework on this too. Maybe my dealer just had a duff 272 on demo?! 

I have the same Chris ...... I had a listen-in on a friends 272 v NDX/282 audition.   His first audition was 270/200 vs ND5 & NDX on into a 202/200 & it left him undecided other than discounting ND5.   He arranged another demo - the one I sat in on - with 272/200 vs NDX/282/200 & that confirmed the NDX as the better SQ.   But it was a close run thing,  maybe the diff would have been more pronounced with a 250 & maybe better speakers,  but he wanted to use a 200 as thats what he had at home.  Anyhow to cut to the bottom line he eventually went with 272 as the budget wouldn't stretch to NDX & 282 but he has since sold off other stuff & added a 250 to the 272 so he's a happy (very happy) bunny & I could easily go the same way.   

Mike-B posted:

Anyhow to cut to the bottom line he eventually went with 272 as the budget wouldn't stretch to NDX & 282 but he has since sold off other stuff & added a 250 to the 272 so he's a happy (very happy) bunny & I could easily go the same way.   

Oh no.  Assuming the Nat05 goes too, who would answer our FM questions then?!

C.

Mike, agreed, if I'd never listened to the NDX I would have been extremely happy with a 272 - there is no duff option here! Having said that, even though I only listened to the 272 with a 250DR, in comparison with the NDX which I only listened to with a 200, I still went for the NDX. It just sounded more musical and enjoyable, with a bit more detail and refinement. Adding an XPS to the 272 almost closed the gap, but not quite. 

Christopher_M posted:

Oh no.  Assuming the Nat05 goes too, who would answer our FM questions then?!C.

    steam radio is in yer blood,  it will be with me to my grave ........  & beyond.    But don't worry the NDX/XPS is here to stay along with the NAT for a while yet.  Might move if a "X"72 came along,  plus 250,  provided the X72 didn't need a current sucking extra PSU.   I'm resigned to not go down the more & more black box path again.

N272 can always be ordered with an excellent FM / DAB module, of which I'm a grat fan of. My NDX is like that....

100% disagree on "excellent",  its an ordinary off the shelf commercial software defined module.   OK for DAB & an OK casual listen for background FM & maybe Naim have done something to get the best out of it,  but its way off beam to be on the same page as the reputation that Naim has with NAT.   

Mike-B posted:

100% disagree on "excellent",  its an ordinary off the shelf commercial software defined module.   OK for DAB & an OK casual listen for background FM & maybe Naim have done something to get the best out of it,  but its way off beam to be on the same page as the reputation that Naim has with NAT.   

Like Adam, I find the FM module in the 272 to be excellent, and I've owned a NAT01, 02 and 05 over the years. Give it a decent roof mounted aerial to really hear what it's capable of. 

Mike-B posted:

100% disagree on "excellent",  its an ordinary off the shelf commercial software defined module.   OK for DAB & an OK casual listen for background FM & maybe Naim have done something to get the best out of it,  but its way off beam to be on the same page as the reputation that Naim has with NAT.   

Mike - most intriguing. I didn't realise that NAT has such a vastly superior FM tuner. I may have to simply get one....

Am now rather regretting my comment on Mike-B's FM expertise which is proving somewhat diversionary from OP's thread.

C.