Naim XS upgrade path

Personally i think the XS2 (latest) is at best a sideways step and at worst a backward step. I would add a FC2X or XS and maybe a Powerline for the Flatcap. I would most certainly not bother with a separate power amp. If you really want to improve on what you have, either a SN2 or likely 282/200DR and above is necessary. Your source should dictate how far you can go with the amps, and of course your speakers will need to respond well to changes.

Perhaps a source and speakers would be a good idea first? 

From Nait XS, if you want to stay with an integrated amp, just go right to the Supernait 2.  Anything intermediate, or adding a Flatcap (which also is intermediate), will cost you more in the long run if you end up with the Supernait 2.

If you want to go with separate pre/power, that's a whole 'nother discussion.

All of this must take into account: source?? speakers??  budget??

Hi - thanks for the replies.I was looking for some general guidance but I will be more specific if it helps.

I was originally a Roksan Xerxes user for many years.For various reasons I lost my system to the recession.When in a position to rebuild I decided to go the Linn route and not wanting to wait for years I decided to spread my money around to get a complete system over the past two years. It may seem like a bit of a mixture but here goes. Front end LP12 - all in one upgraded by Inspire Audio.Seemed to be money well spent.Arm Ittok,cartridge Dynavector DV-20X2L - low output. Angle Audio low out put phono stage - which I think is a great value phono. Speakers Tannoy Precision 6.2 biwired with Nordost 4 flatline cable. (Not my forever speakers )

I have upgraded my fuses with Russ Andrews fuses. I use a Russ Andrews Power block and all my units have upgraded power leads,though frankly I am not totally sure they all worth their money. I have a Musical Fidelity X Ray cd player for my cd's which aren't that important to me.

There you go - sort that out!!!

Thanks again

Peter

Well, the first thing to do is change your speaker leads: Naim amps don't like biwiring, and as I understand it, Nordost is not a good match, though I may be wrong. Have a look at Naim's own A5, or alternatively Tellurium Q Black. To comprehensively better the XS, you should look at a Supernait 2. You could also try the Stageline phono stage against your existing one. I would try the XS with the mains lead that comes in the box, as it's an ideal match. Once you've done all that, you could look at alternative speakers. 

If you do fancy a pre/power the 282/200DR is the one I'd look at. It costs double the price of the Supernait 2, and I'd suggest it's not worth bothering with anything in between the two alternatives. 

This is all on the basis that vinyl is the main source and that you are not interested in streaming. 

Hi

Thanks again for those who took time to reply.

On ebay there is a Flatcap 2x bidding starts at £299

Also a Flatcap XS buy it now at £429 -

Is it worth the extra for the Flatcap XS?

petzhou posted:

Hi

 

Thanks again for those who took time to reply.

On ebay there is a Flatcap 2x bidding starts at £299

Also a Flatcap XS buy it now at £429 -

Is it worth the extra for the Flatcap XS?

 

 

Hi,

Why not a HC DR ? i did it on my XS and was a fantastic upgrade. Morover if you eventually move in the future

to Nac 202 or 282, it will be the perfect companion for them as well.

Regards

Roberto

Petzhou, 

In my opinion...

I hope you didn't throw out the original fuses in the Naim power cables. They are specially chosen for the task by Naim. Not sure about the RA fuses. The Naim ones are even placed in the plugs in a particular direction for best results.

Try any other ordinary £5 block which doesn't have any fancy mains conditioning or surge suppression in it and I am willing to bet you will get a better, more musical, result. I never use or recommend any block with that kind of thing in it because although it may make the system sound cleaner and clearer, it also compresses the dynamics and makes it sound more ... antiseptic.

I know nothing about the Inspire Audio changes. From what I've been told, they make an LP12 sound not like an LP12, so I don't really get the point. That said, if you're happy there, then keep as is. The TikTok/DV combination is known to be very good indeed.

Nordost No. NACA5 Yes. Big difference in drive and slam. Again, not as much resolution but the difference in engagement is substantial in my opinion, the NACA5 wins by some margin here - once it's run in of course, which takes quite some time. You'll miss the liquid treble and smooth midrange of the Nordost until then, but once you 'get' the NACA5, you'll begin to understand why Naim is not HiFi and really a music making system.

You do not mention your interconnects. Given your other cables I suspect we should look at those too. What you using?

Your XS is a fine amplifier. Your thinking is interesting in that you're thinking of going to XS2/FC/155XS. I would have thought the obvious is to go to a proper preamp such as the 152. Perhaps you were thinking of biamping? This is not usually a recommended route with Naim systems because you're simply doubling up on the negatives for a little more power, and you're more likely to have phase issues due to the differences in signal length from preamp to speaker. Also remember that by that time (whether XS2 or 152) you'll have spent more than, or around the same as, the cost of a SUPERNAIT2. Now, a SUPERNAIT2 is better by some margin than either of the above XS amplification systems. This is due to several factors including: better chassis (remarkable how important this is), MUCH better preamp stage, more headroom in the power amp stage (even against the biamp scenario). The Tannoys present a bit of an awkward load because their impedance drops to 3.1 ohms and their EPDR drops right down to 1.7 ohms which means they really do like to suck the juice from the amp. Your XS is probably the minimum you can get away with, and realistically even with the doubling up of the amplifiers you still don't have the headroom to drive them properly. The Supernait2 will make a better fist of it I think.

If you really wanted to help your amp currently, you could make a bid on one of those Flatcaps. If you get the 2x, use Power Supply A as it supplies the full 24v supply whereas B was a lesser 22v supply used primarily for the CD players (e.g. CD5X). (The flatcap XS has two 24v supplies and so is more desirable.) Later if you went with the Supernait, you could continue to use the Flatcap with that if you wished. I can't recall whether this was better than the SUPERNAIT running completely on its own steam, sorry.

You make no mention of racking. I hope you have at least a basic decent rack such as a Quadraspire.

Frank.

Frank, i think you will find the Flatcap2X had 2x24v supplies. It was the Flatcap2 that had 1x24v and 1x22v. I think the 2XS had some other changes, but not sure exactly what.

Thanks again to you all - especially Frank that was an indepth and very helpful response.It will take me a while to absorb it all.It looks like it is back to basics fo me.Yes Frank I do have a dedicated rack for my equipment,At least I have got that right!

Thank you all again.

On the basis that it's not much poinyt in asking advice if you choose to ignore it I am going to go the following route as a starting point and embrace the Naim "thing"

Change the amp power cable back to the original.

Change my Russ Andrews power block back to one that had served me well for a few years.

Change by speaker cable to a single run of Naim nac A5 with A5 jumpers.

The Flatcap XS is gone so I am going to bid on the 2X.

Can I ask is there a better connection than the standard snaic that comes with the Flatcap?

Hopefully that will settle me for a little while and I can address the speakers and eventually go for a Supernait 2 or similair.

Also my LP 12/arm needs a service the arm has just started skating across my LP's.

Thank you all again

Hi folks.I added a flatcap 2x to my xs just a couple of months ago.I have found the sound becoming more musical and I can hear further into the recording....it is subtle though and not night and day....I don't think I'd have payed full price for one but is a worthy used buy choice just to eak out that little bit extra performance from the amp,just need to wait for the cd5xs to come down in price now to use that second input/output.lol.

Hi Skinny Puppy

I am looking at a 2x on ebay - starting at £299.How far above this do you think I should go?

Do you use a normal snaic to connect to the XS?

Many thanks

Peter

I bought mine from eBay at a bin price of £325 and it came with the 5pin snaik but you still need to get a 4pin cable also.I suppose how high you go re price is on the basis of it's age.I don't think I'd go above £350 as the earliest flatcap xs's aren't too far away from that kind of money.

If the arm has just started skating, fix that first! If there's a mechanical problem or your stylus has been ripped out of the cantilever (it happens) the repair cost will be high.

Frank.

Hi yes I have bid on the 2x but will hold back on anything else until the deck is sorted. I have looked at the stylus and all seems well there - at least with my naked eye.

The arm doesn't seem to be dropping smoothly on to the record.I will have to wait and see what my dealer says.

Thanks again.

Can I ask a couple more basic Naim related questions.

Are the din connections superior to the phono connections that now appear on the newer Naim components?

Is it worth getting Naim plugs on the amp end of A5 speaker cable?

To connect a flatcap to an XS amp I use the 5 pin snaic that comes with the flatcap. I also need a 4 pin connection - is that simply a four pin snaic - ( I told you they were basic questions!)

Thanks1

Yes, yes, yes. 

Thanks Thanks Thanks!

I would not add a flatcap XS, I don't think it is a worthwhile improvement. I had one which when for various reasons I disconnected it from the Nait XS and CD5XS I realised it had done nothing to improve the sound or feel of the music at all. I tried it on both the amp and cd player separately and to me there was no improvement doing that either. My advice would be to save your money to move up the Naim range. This is what I will do if I stick with Naim, I feel that the Supernait is a significantly better amp but costly.

A Flatcap 2X was a night and day difference for the better when i owned my NaitXS. I loved that combination and could live with it again without question, even though i now use the more capable Supernait2.

I would not discount fc 2x 

after moving on from 5i to xs a second time, what made the difference for me was power line and the fc2x for sure.

i had better speakers 2nd time round also which may of helped

Hi Peter,

I'll contribute; just (but not intentionally!) to confuse you further.

I'm with Frank in that the XS (and MkII which I have) is a great amplifier which works very well as an integrated package. Be very, very careful - there is a sonic joy with Naim integrated amps, which, if lost, may be mourned and not easily recaptured. Put simply; they are designed to work as an entity.

I wouldn't muck about with it. My opinion, FWIW is that you need to step up to 282/200/250 (with or without a Hi-Cap) level or keep the XS.

As ever; a good dealer will be able to steer you straight.

Good luck.

John.

Petzhou,

a simple, relatively cheap and certified (by my own experience, for what it's worth) upgrade for your Nait XS is a PowerLine. Period.

The PowerLine is not always, equally effective on any product; but on the Nait XS it is. I remember having assembled, one night, a temporary system with what I had - Oppo DV980H, NaitXS, Arivas – adding a borrowed PL on the amp, and being amazed at the result. To my ears, a PL on the XS is preferable to a FlatCap.

My opinion only,

best

M. 

I don't quite agree with Max, but a Poweline on the Flatcap2X to power the NaitXS is most definitely worthwhile.