Speaker Shoot Out

I liked Ascendo a lot,they have isobaric bass!

All,

I have had a 2 month pause in speaker trials since the last post. I’m happy to report that I was able to arrange a demo of the new (ish) B&W 802 D3’s this Tuesday complete with more or less my home system. The differences were NDS replacing my CDS3, with single 555PS and NAP500DR in place of my humble 500 non-DR. As the shop had a used pair of D2 800’s in stock we also wheeled these in for a quick A-B. With fewer speakers to get through this time, I extended the listening list from the last demo to:

Artist          Album          Track

Jon Gomm          Don't Panic           Afterglow

Various          Eric Clapton & Friends The Breeze          Someday

Bob James          The New Cool           Crazy

Steve Windwood    Arc of the Diver          While You See A Chance

Roxy Music          Manifesto          Manifesto (HDCD)

The Jam          The Sound of The Jam         Ghosts

Again there was no real science to the list of tracks. The new additions were chosen for a number of reasons though. Jon Gomm is not a stellar vocalist IMHO, but the percussive acoustic style is very singular and presents some different sounds for reproduction than normal. Steve Windwood, probably not the best mastered track ever, did provide some mushy synth that I was hoping to hear with new clarity. We also had a high res download of this via Tidal which ended up as the demo track as it was superior to the CD rip. The Jam track is very sparse musically. The first bass note is the open E-string which is a good test of bass voicing. Mr. Weller may not be operatic in style/quality but the song is quite raw and emotive so also a good test of ingredient “x”.

We played the full track list through the new D3’s first. The Jam came on and I found myself doing something I do not normally do. My foot started tapping. I have seen sales persons do this to try to convey that the music is “so” engaging. Never felt like joining them myself. Until now. I actually wanted to join in on the vocals as well near the end which given my singing skills, would have been a mistake. But the point being, the sound and immersive experience was quite uncanny and tremendously uplifting. If you have read the full chain of this post, you will by now have figured out that my long awaited, wow moment, had arrived.

Steve Windwood passed the test. Where there had previously been quite some overlap and merging of vocals, synth and crash symbol, all was now teased apart, placed in space and made more sense to my ears. Jon Gomm’s thumping and generally abusing his acoustic guitar was tremendously realistic. I’ll park the hyperbole for the other tracks and simply say that I am quite taken by these speakers.

The older generation of 800’s were wheeled in and we just had a reduced play list for comparison. In their day the 800’s were quite rightly highly rated. They still sound good but frankly nowhere near the quality of the 802 D3. The mids were muddled in comparison and the bass not as etched either. I did read somewhere that any model in the new D3 series is better than the next model up in the old series. I would say this is true.

One factor that I am wresting with is the use of the DR’d 500 in the demo. I had not heard a DR’d unit until now. So quite how much was down to the speaker and how much DR technology I cannot say. As the 802 aced the old 800, I can say the D3 is quite an achievement. Also, given that I will DR my amp as soon as, means that I will not be disappointed in the long run. I did not want to hear the 800 D3’s that were sitting there outside the room. There is quite a price differential from 802 to 800. Not hearing them makes it easier not to buy them!

I think I have found the right speakers for me after quite some time and effort. Good luck to all others still on this particular journey. Take your time, that “yes” moment is out there. Thanks to all (James) for the dem.

Glad to hear (sic) you've found your speakers.

I wonder sometimes that B&W are not mentioned too often on posts here ... but I love my 803D3 speakers and they will be the last I ever buy; can only imagine that the 802D3's just give more of everything I love too.

Enjoy reliving your music collection,

Allan

Allan Milne posted:

 

Glad to hear (sic) you've found your speakers.

I wonder sometimes that B&W are not mentioned too often on posts here ... but I love my 803D3 speakers and they will be the last I ever buy; can only imagine that the 802D3's just give more of everything I love too.

 

Enjoy reliving your music collection,

Allan

Allan,

I think there are still a few B&W converts on here but not many. The first dealer I used in Montrose was a real convert to Naim/B&W and that iis partly why I ended up with the 803's. I also plan that the 802's will also be my last speaker purchase and enjoyable though the journey was, I will be happy not to have to repeat it again. Let's hope the run in is not too painful.

Dave

Well done Allan - great that you have found your speakers after all the effort. Again great you have shared.

as you may recall, i have been searching as well, and have now also pulled the trigger for a new set of speakers. Its not b&w, will post what I ended up with shortly

now its back to enjoying the music :-)

lars

Sorry - mixed up names, meant bodger/dave for my post :-)

Lars,

well done too. Hope to hear soon what you chose and more importantly why.

I must admit I'm getting tired of this forum lately. I have written several long pieces above trying to share real experiences and and my path through the decision making process. The feed back and constructive response has been very light. Were one to ask a question like, "what colour is your speaker cable?" or "what new turn table should I buy" you are guaranteed to receive 167 replies in a day. Maybe adding the smiley icon functions has taken us too close to the Facebook state of mind whereby "liking" something is a significant contribution to the debate.

Dave

Allan, very droll. You are exempted from my last remarks though.

Bodger posted:

Lars,

well done too. Hope to hear soon what you chose and more importantly why.

I must admit I'm getting tired of this forum lately. I have written several long pieces above trying to share real experiences and and my path through the decision making process. The feed back and constructive response has been very light. Were one to ask a question like, "what colour is your speaker cable?" or "what new turn table should I buy" you are guaranteed to receive 167 replies in a day. Maybe adding the smiley icon functions has taken us too close to the Facebook state of mind whereby "liking" something is a significant contribution to the debate.

Dave

 

Dave, I wonder what exactly you feel is missing? You've had some potentially helpful suggestions along the way, and feedback too. Perhaps because you've been looking at a few expensive speakers that few here have heard there is less scope to contribute usefully. You seem to have wanted the D3 all along, so maybe that put people off? Who knows? You've ended up with a result that suits you, and that's what counts. 

Dave,

Glad you got  it

Allan

I have followed this thread with some interest, but not contributed mainly because virtually all the speakers have been outside my own range of experience, plus I tend to struggle with analysing why one speaker sounds better than another, at least where the overall character is similar, and it always interests me to learn what others say about speakers.

The only ones I have heard are the 802s (I can't remember if D2 or D3 - something like £16-18k fairly early this year). I rejected them in comparison to the IMFs I had at the time, and PMCs I also auditioned alongside - not because the 802s were bad, they certainly weren't, but they didn't make the music come alive, my description at the time being that they seemed almost too polite. But I know other people love them, and of course it depends on synergy with the rest of the system, music played, and personal taste.

İ read it with great pleasure but you got it all wrong,Sopra 2 rocks 

I too have followed this thread with interest. You BODGER sir give good copy. Taking the time to share your process with considered detail not just of the Hi-Fi aspects but also the involvement or not with the choice of music and musicians. Enjoy.

Bodger,

I appreciate you posting your experiences, which could be quite valuable for members who are considering the speakers you mention.  Like others, I have read this thread but not posted - I have limited experience with these models and am not looking to replace my own speakers.  So do not doubt the value of your contribution.

Thank you!

Charlie

I have also enjoyed reading the thread but unfortunately have had nothing to contribute! 

Hi Bodger,

I have followed this thread as well and like many others had nothing to contribute simple because I have a limited knowledge about speakers in this range.

Unlike speaker cables (mine are black) which nearly all of us have in our systems, your topic was a very specific one. So please stay with us.

Mulberry posted:

Hi Bodger,

I have followed this thread as well and like many others had nothing to contribute simple because I have a limited knowledge about speakers in this range.

Unlike speaker cables (mine are black) which nearly all of us have in our systems, your topic was a very specific one. So please stay with us.

Mr MULBERRY. I have been a little keen towards your Avatar and namesake since it appeared.  Is the colour ,or color a thing of true beauty or is it a thing of my imagination ?

hi, Bodger,

I enjoyed reading your post very much. I auditioned 802d3 recently too. I liked them a lot, but I heard them singing without using naim at the front.  Your experience really gave me confidence about the match of 802d3 and naim. I will probably purchase a pair myself at the end of the year, though my set up is only 552+300. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Bodger posted:

Lars,

well done too. Hope to hear soon what you chose and more importantly why.

I must admit I'm getting tired of this forum lately. I have written several long pieces above trying to share real experiences and and my path through the decision making process. The feed back and constructive response has been very light. Were one to ask a question like, "what colour is your speaker cable?" or "what new turn table should I buy" you are guaranteed to receive 167 replies in a day. Maybe adding the smiley icon functions has taken us too close to the Facebook state of mind whereby "liking" something is a significant contribution to the debate.

Dave

 

Dave, I wonder what exactly you feel is missing? You've had some potentially helpful suggestions along the way, and feedback too. Perhaps because you've been looking at a few expensive speakers that few here have heard there is less scope to contribute usefully. You seem to have wanted the D3 all along, so maybe that put people off? Who knows? You've ended up with a result that suits you, and that's what counts. 

HH, I agree overall that there will be fewer folks with experience of the mid/high part of the price curve. There are also a good number here, albeit a minority with grander systems than mine and presumably pretty decent speaker choices arrived at carefully over time. My whinge was not aimed at this silent minority though.

I did get, as you say, some useful contributions, FT, Allan, Lars etc included. Just like the “what are you listening to.. and WHY would anyone be interested” thread, lots of people report what, and not why. By all means, give speaker “X” a go but say why. This was part of the disappointment, no doubt.

I live in a hifi desert. I never get to talk about my secret habit. So I was hoping to get some interesting chat going with fellow addicts. That is why I tried to include in the overall stories, choice of tracks, my opinion of the tracks, some musical references, impact of DR v non-DR in the last post etc. Also, in the spirit of the more the merrier, more replies means more opinions which is what I needed. I even suggested being a heretic and buying without a demo, surely a hanging offence. As the thread had dried up, I stopped checking it out a while ago.

No real drama but that is my 2 cents.

I hope Allan will “like” this post.

Dave

Bodger posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Bodger posted:

Lars,

well done too. Hope to hear soon what you chose and more importantly why.

I must admit I'm getting tired of this forum lately. I have written several long pieces above trying to share real experiences and and my path through the decision making process. The feed back and constructive response has been very light. Were one to ask a question like, "what colour is your speaker cable?" or "what new turn table should I buy" you are guaranteed to receive 167 replies in a day. Maybe adding the smiley icon functions has taken us too close to the Facebook state of mind whereby "liking" something is a significant contribution to the debate.

Dave

 

Dave, I wonder what exactly you feel is missing? You've had some potentially helpful suggestions along the way, and feedback too. Perhaps because you've been looking at a few expensive speakers that few here have heard there is less scope to contribute usefully. You seem to have wanted the D3 all along, so maybe that put people off? Who knows? You've ended up with a result that suits you, and that's what counts. 

 

HH, I agree overall that there will be fewer folks with experience of the mid/high part of the price curve. There are also a good number here, albeit a minority with grander systems than mine and presumably pretty decent speaker choices arrived at carefully over time. My whinge was not aimed at this silent minority though.

I did get, as you say, some useful contributions, FT, Allan, Lars etc included. Just like the “what are you listening to.. and WHY would anyone be interested” thread, lots of people report what, and not why. By all means, give speaker “X” a go but say why. This was part of the disappointment, no doubt.

I live in a hifi desert. I never get to talk about my secret habit. So I was hoping to get some interesting chat going with fellow addicts. That is why I tried to include in the overall stories, choice of tracks, my opinion of the tracks, some musical references, impact of DR v non-DR in the last post etc. Also, in the spirit of the more the merrier, more replies means more opinions which is what I needed. I even suggested being a heretic and buying without a demo, surely a hanging offence. As the thread had dried up, I stopped checking it out a while ago.

No real drama but that is my 2 cents.

I hope Allan will “like” this post.

Dave

Hi Bodger

I have been following your post since it started and since I'm also using B&W speakers I don't know why I did not reply,so I apologise .On a happier note I'm having a couple of exciting days ahead.I've booked myself ( taking my whole family with me,younger ears,to help me listen/ choose) a couple of demos tomorrow.First up is at Cannonbury Yard ( not sure if I can mention dealers name) to audition B&W 802D2 (what I have) vs 802D3 vs 800D3 and latter on to New Cavendish St. to audition Sonus Faber Armati vs Wilson Sabrina.Hope there's something I like.

On Saturday will be going to Harlow for Devialet/ Vivid Audio Giya 4 open day. Couldn't wait.

ayap1

TOBYJUG posted:

Mulberry posted:

Hi Bodger,

I have followed this thread as well and like many others had nothing to contribute simple because I have a limited knowledge about speakers in this range.

Unlike speaker cables (mine are black) which nearly all of us have in our systems, your topic was a very specific one. So please stay with us.

Mr MULBERRY. I have been a little keen towards your Avatar and namesake since it appeared.  Is the colour ,or color a thing of true beauty or is it a thing of my imagination ?

Hi Tobyjug,

thanks for your kind words. I simply like the colour that goes by the name "mulberry" or "Maulbeere" over here in Germany. Some of my furniture is black with some mulberry-coloured drawers in it (I look at those right now). To my eyes a very understated elegance and a joy to look at, even after 15+ years.

As a sort of bonus, the name was still available at many sites, including this one. The Avatar was first meant as a quick way to get away from the placeholder, but it has grown on me since.

By the way, still remember your "guy with the huge moustache" Avatar. It took me some time to figure that one out.

ayap1, it sounds like you are planning a similar experiment, just in reverse order. My first post in the thread was based on 4 speakers, 2 of which you are trying, in New Cavendish Street. The last report was from Cannonbury Yard. The Amatis sounded like last years Hifi and the Wilsons were quite a tough load. As you are taking many pairs of ears you should be thoroughly confused. I think just trying 1 or 2 speakers is much more effective looking back. I ended up taking notes when I did the first batch. Mistake probably but I had to try to fit in as much as possible on each trip home. Good luck and don't rush it.

Dave

Unless the difference in sound is vary similar, rarely the case, then I have found comparing multiple pairs relatively easy, referring the next back to the best so far, needing only a small nuber of different types of music to enable picking of a preference, and only needing long auditioning where either the differences are quite small, or where quite different but equally likeable on first listen.

Just had two demos today ,listening levels were set at the right volume,unlike many they were set too high,so that's a good start.

Tracks listen to were : Jennifer Warnes --Way Down Deep and Somewhere Somebody .

                                     Goldfrapp--Annabel.

                                     Uncle Lucius--Keep the wolves away.

                                     Arron Neville--I bid you goodnight.

                                     Mary Black--Song for Ireland.

                                    R.E.M.--Ignoreland.

Four tracks were played on the 802D3 .The first few seconds of of the first track (Way deep down) we look at each other,my family of four that is,we all agreed that it was a lot better than our D2.The mid and lows were very good.Except that I find the R.E.M. Track a bit 'glassy and bright' if that's the right word.The 802 was then swapped for the 800 D3.I was thinking how can you improve on the already excellent 802 and how wrong was I. Again within the first few seconds we agreed it was a lot better.The sound is fuller,the mid clearer and the lows lower,nice low that is.The R.E.M. Track has lost it's brightness and is now sounding nice.

A further couple of tracks were played on the 800 and then swapped for the 802 .I look round and ask what do you guys think? And the first word my daughter said was Dad change the speakers i.e. D2 to D3.

Next demo was supposed to be Wilson Sabrina vs Sonus Faber Armati but on arrival at the dealer was told that the Armati was about to be discontinued so it was only the Sabrina that was listened to. J Warnes and U Lucius sounded good for not such a big size speakers BUT with A Neville track it sounded lifeless and flat.Don't know why ,it sounded so good with the D3 at the first demo.Listen to a couple more tracks and that was it.

So I might have found my speakers but not yet because I have a couple more to listen to.

ayap1

HI Ayap1,

nice post, good to get the family involved too.

I wouldn't sign on the dotted line until you get final confirmation in a home demo; I know the 800 and 802 are huge beasts but if you've fixed on one of them then the dealer should be happy to give you a home demo before sale ... just to confirm that they work in your listening environment.

Enjoy the next dem,

Allan