NDX/NDAC/555PS vs Linn Klimax DSM vs Linn Akurate DSM

What about these three options appeals to you?  

No NDS option Taku ?

I'm sure you'll get a lot of favourable comments for the Naim solution (this is the Naim forum), likewise asking the same on the Linn forum would move the preference the other way. 

At this level i'd also consider a Melco with a Chord Dave or Chord QBD76 DAC too. 

Enjoy your demos 

NickSeattle posted:

What about these three options appeals to you?  

Not attempting to answer for the OP, but as for the latter two options I suspect Space Optimisation, hassle-free user interface, and seamless software updates might be factors, As for the first option, perhaps SQ while abandoning the above.

I'd also consider the NDS/555, which should be better than the NDX/nDac/555, with fewer boxes too. 

+1 for HH. NDS + 555PS - less boxes and only one power connection needed (555PS already comes with a PowerLine). 

The klimax dsm is much better then the akurate dsm. But if you want to keep the 252 you only need to purchase a linn ds. A dsm is a preamp with streamer intgrated like the 272 and 172 from naim. Best linn is the exakt-system! But I prefered 272 with 555 and 250dr. So I think HH is right. +NDS with 555. But when linn you should test an exakt-system like akubarik or akudorik with a klimax or akuratre exakt dsm. 

As reinibert wrote, you already have a good pre amp and if you only need a source, a Linn DS would be sufficient.

Unless you have digital sources (HDMI/SPDIF/TOSLINK) and no other DAC, then a DSM could make sense.

My personal ranking from top to bottom would be 2, 3, 1.

Re the Linn options:   DS if you are keeping the pre-amp & the Arurate is not worth considering in the mix 

In terms of "music re-production quality"   it depends what you are looking for:  Relaxing = Linn     or Involvement (PRaT - hate that word)  = Naim.       I listen to a KDS quite regularly & although very nice I do prefer my own NDX,  but amps, speakers & room all play a part in all these things.

The NDX is bettered by the NDS as other have said,  but don't overlook NDX plus Chord Hugo,  huge space saving in comparason

joerand posted:

NickSeattle posted:

What about these three options appeals to you?  

Not attempting to answer for the OP, but as for the latter two options I suspect Space Optimisation, hassle-free user interface, and seamless software updates might be factors, As for the first option, perhaps SQ while abandoning the above.

Fair enough.  For myself, I bought #1, in part because I like the way the FM sounds and works in the whole-house scenario.  And, to rip off a cartoon I saw once, "It was the expense and complexity that ultimately drew me to Naim."  

Nick

More seriously, IMHO, Naim gets the balance of SQ, UI, integration, and flexibility about right at this level, especially if one is committed to Naim amplification.

Nick

NickSeattle posted:

What about these three options appeals to you?  

 

Thanks Nick and everyone for suggestions.

My preferences are in the order that I listed. The main reason that I am considering the Linn DS is the simplicity and the strength of their latest software, and the reason that I am considering the Akurate DSM is that it simplifies the configuration (fewer boxes) even more as  it accepts a phono input, albeit  with the cost of losing some edges over music re-production. Space optimization is a factor as well. 

NDS/555PS is now on my list thanks to HH. Chord / Melco is not on my list simply because it looks kind out of place with the existing system.

I've spent a lot of time with Naim and Linn set-ups at home over the last few months. I can't speak to Exakt configurations, but in a conventional set up I've reached the view that Linn make outstanding streamers, but the music dies when the Linn pre-amp is introduced. Right now I have an Akurate DS/2 running into a 282/HC/250DR and for me it's on another level to the NDX I had for a few months, but these things are personal. I demo'd an Akurate DSM into my Naim combo and into a Vitus RI-100,  in various configurations and the DSM pre-amp was obviously a weak link at the Akurate level. So advice to OP is to stick with Naim for amplification, but certainly give Linn consideration for streaming, but only streaming. 

Thanks AC16161 for the heads-up. Did you use a bare NDX by itself?

Strong recommedation to NDS/555PS. I had NDAC/555PS as well & have been comparing to Akurate & KDS several times. KDS is more for details & separation but also more flat, NDS is for music !

banzai posted:

NickSeattle posted:

What about these three options appeals to you?  

 

Thanks Nick and everyone for suggestions.

My preferences are in the order that I listed. The main reason that I am considering the Linn DS is the simplicity and the strength of their latest software, and the reason that I am considering the Akurate DSM is that it simplifies the configuration (fewer boxes) even more as  it accepts a phono input, albeit  with the cost of losing some edges over music re-production. Space optimization is a factor as well. 

NDS/555PS is now on my list thanks to HH. Chord / Melco is not on my list simply because it looks kind out of place with the existing system.

Hi, Taku.

FM not available on NDS -- may not be an issue for you.  I would be interested to know if Linn pieces allow you to control the Naim NAC from within the app.  Once the NDxx/nDAC/555 are configured, operation is "simpler" than many other competing alternatives, I have found.

Best of luck.

Nick

banzai posted:

Thanks AC16161 for the heads-up. Did you use a bare NDX by itself?

Yes, I used a bare NDX.  The NDX was certainly richer than the ADS/2, but the ADS/2 goes much deeper, has a cast-iron grip on the bass line and resolves a lot more detail, and has quite a bit more scale/authority. I found that combining it with Naim/Vitus works much better than using a Linn DSM/power combo.

In my experience digital room correction, when applied to the main speakers, has significant limitations; particularly as it seems to rob the sound of some vitality.  I do use Digital Room Correction, but it's only applied to the signal to my sub to remove the excitation of the main room resonances.  I've tried applying it to the whole of the signal (mains and sub), even modifying the original files (upsampling 16bit files to 24bit so that the artefacts are suppressed), but in every case there was a very slight 'deadness' to the resulting sound compared to the uncorrected file played directly.

Weather this was an artefact of the digital processing (in the DSP or the modifications to the file), or due to the correction suppressing some of the more lively characteristics of the room response, I don't know (and I have no way to distinguish these possibilities).

Leaving the signal to the main speakers untouched, but 'correcting' the signal to the sub gives the best of both worlds - no loss of vitality and the bass boom of my square room is completely suppressed.

Finally, I have settled down the NDX/NDAC/555PS, this combo sounds best to my ears, the Klimax also sounds fabulous, but somehow it does not have the same vitality as the Naim combo.

Thanks for your inputs, I really appreciate it.

Did you compare NDX/Ndac/555 with NDS/555? I currently own the former into 252/Supercap Dr/ 300 and have been curious about the NDS - never got round to doing the demo as ideally I would want a used NDS but they are pretty rare on the second hand market. (Seems unfair to waste dealers time with no intention (due to budget) of purchasing new.

 Be interesting to see what naim does next, can't be long before some newer products land. 

Gary

Gary, nope, but I know where you are coming from. I decided to call it quit after having settled down on the Naim combo as I am very satisfied with the SQ, and I like the flexibility of having a separate nDAC, this gives an ability of adding any digital sources.

fathings cat posted:

Did you compare NDX/Ndac/555 with NDS/555? I currently own the former into 252/Supercap Dr/ 300 and have been curious about the NDS - never got round to doing the demo as ideally I would want a used NDS but they are pretty rare on the second hand market. (Seems unfair to waste dealers time with no intention (due to budget) of purchasing new.

 Be interesting to see what naim does next, can't be long before some newer products land. 

Gary

Gary 

I haven't heard it with an NDX at the front end but when I was demoing a 300DR at my dealers I also tried an NDS in place of my nDAC (system CDX2.2 powered by XP5XS to nDAC/555PSDR to 282/SCDR to 250.2/300DR to Sopra2 with a full SL loom).

We initially tried the NDS as a direct replacement for the nDAC i.e. using feeding it from the CDX2.2 and using it as just a DAC. Then tried the NDS with ripped test tracks being fed from a US.  Rather to my surprise I preferred the nDAC against both, as I was fully expecting to hear an improvement with the considerably more expensive NDS. 

I know that doesn't wholly answer your question because it really just shows how important it is for you to listen to both options before buying.  

Mike

fathings cat posted:

Did you compare NDX/Ndac/555 with NDS/555? I currently own the former into 252/Supercap Dr/ 300 and have been curious about the NDS - never got round to doing the demo as ideally I would want a used NDS but they are pretty rare on the second hand market. (Seems unfair to waste dealers time with no intention (due to budget) of purchasing new.

 Be interesting to see what naim does next, can't be long before some newer products land. 

Gary

Gary 

I have done exactly that.  I had HDX into nDAC and always thought I would end with a 555ps on that to make HDX>>nDac>>555ps.  I first tried the 555ps but I didn't seem to get what I expected.  My dealer suggested I try an NDX into the nDAC, instead of the HDX and use HDX as server only.  That was ok but a sideways movement I felt. Then, as I still had the 555ps on demo, I tried NDX>>nDac>>555ps and it was great,  I loved it.  It did everything I wanted .....and then some.

However, just when I was ready to pull the trigger on the NDX and 555ps to join my nDac, I discovered that my dealer had a barely used  NDS available, used 2 days only from a show....... temptation got the better of me.  He said it would be In a different league again from the NDX>>nDAC>>555ps if I used it with the 555ps.... He wasn't wrong!  It was the same all over again and I was absolutely bowled over with it and it never went back!!

Voices, soundstage, refinement, imaging.....everything just grew and improved beyond my expectations.  It has been the biggest outlay I have made in Hifi, but it has also given me the the most enjoyment I have had in my music.  

Obviously, everyone hears differently but if you are asking is it worth a demo and do I think it will improve on your current source, my answer would be a resounding 'Yes'!

Thanks Jason, appreciate your response - I better start saving! 

Gary

Huge posted:

In my experience digital room correction, when applied to the main speakers, has significant limitations; particularly as it seems to rob the sound of some vitality.  I do use Digital Room Correction, but it's only applied to the signal to my sub to remove the excitation of the main room resonances.  I've tried applying it to the whole of the signal (mains and sub), even modifying the original files (upsampling 16bit files to 24bit so that the artefacts are suppressed), but in every case there was a very slight 'deadness' to the resulting sound compared to the uncorrected file played directly.

Weather this was an artefact of the digital processing (in the DSP or the modifications to the file), or due to the correction suppressing some of the more lively characteristics of the room response, I don't know (and I have no way to distinguish these possibilities).

Leaving the signal to the main speakers untouched, but 'correcting' the signal to the sub gives the best of both worlds - no loss of vitality and the bass boom of my square room is completely suppressed.

Huge,

What has been your basis for applying DRC to the main speakers? Your ears or measurements of the sonics in the room? Maybe you've tried both approaches?

I tried both approaches.

Applying DRC to both mains and sub doesn't require hardware: The changes can be made to the files using software (at the time I didn't have the DSP connected to the sub).  This is directly analogous to the way most DRC systems (such as DIRAC) operate.