Advice re front end please

You mention NDS, but in the context it is unclear - did you mean it as Naims top model streamer?

And I'm a bit confused between your just wanting to discover new music, indicating streaming from online providers such as Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify, or internet radio, and your mention of a NAS as a music store, unless you meant you would then download the new music you had discovered.

if you buy what you describe as a processor and a UHD player that have streaming capabilities, you would only need a DAC if they don't include. Hiwever, if not, and in any case depending on what they are, a separate DAC might be better. But it all depends on the sound quality you crave and price you want to pay, for that just discovering of new music!

As well as possibly considering Naim DACs and all-in -one streamers it would be worth looking at the Chord range, their Hugo in particular having made quite an impact, as you'll see if you search it on these forums.

If  sound quality is paramount, I can recommend a Mac Mini running a rendering program called Audirvana,using the MM as the music store so the music from the store doesn't need to go down a network, just needing to go to a DAC direct (or via an isolator for best sound quality, depending on the DAC) and which has built in capability for Tidal and Qubuz - quite a few people are using and have posted very favorable comparisons with other solutions, and is particularly good value for money compared to them. Plenty of info if you search the forums.

Hi Trev. If you get a streamer (NDS or whatever) it will be a key part of your system in terms of sound quality when you use it as a transport to play music stored on a NAS. Presumably you would use it to stream from Tidal or something for new music discovery, as well as iRadio. 

An alternative could be to run a DAC instead, with a computer source such as a Mac running Aurdirvana software. 

Trev

With a source component like NDX or indeed NDX (to match the rest of your 500-series) you can:

• Play back all the music that has been stored on you local Network Attached Storage (NAS). This means you rip your existing collection and buy high-resolution audio files. This in effect can replace your CD player.
• Discover new music via Tidal, Spotify and iRadio
• In order for the above to work you need to have a working broadband connection, a NAS device (e.g. Synology or QNAP), and some LAN cables to connect everything together

If you decide to go down this route we will of course guide you through the steps. Don't be put off by a lot of posts you may read as to how difficult the implementation is.
It's not - if done correctly a set up is simple and very logical.

Adam

Hi Trev,

You have several options as to system architecture, and which option is "best for you" depends in part on what you want to do.  As others have said above, this isn't quite clear.  Are you interested in establishing a library at home of high quality music files?  And / or streaming from online sources where you're just listening and not downloading / "owning" the music permanently?

Let us know what you're thinking.

~Bart

Afternoon Gents

The crux of the matter is that I intend to use a NAS to serve music to my 552, whether using a standalone DAC or a streamer of some kind.

As has been mentioned I could use Mac Mini with the appropriate software and use this to connect to a standalone DAC.

My question revolves around the Naim NDS, does the streaming side of the player affect the sound quality of the files dragged off the NAS and served to the 552? If it does then this will greatly affect any decision. i understand that the DAC in the NDS will affect sound quality.

I do not want to have multiple methods of streaming, as I am not worried about top sound quality, just to be able to use Tidal etc to discover new music.

Hope this makes things clearer and I apologise for being vague in the first place.

Many thanks for your responses.

Trev

I would suggest a discussion and trip to your dealer if possible to discuss and listen to options they should also be able to advise and help set up your NAS drive. I think you will bve suprised at the quality you can get using a top notch streamer.

I'm still a bit puzzled as to what you mean by "will the Streamer side of NDS affect sound quality". Assuming you mean the rendering part before the DAC, the simple answer is that it seems not all renderers are the same, so yes.

If you run an NDS, it gets its files either from a store on your network (e.g. NAS), or via the internet from an online provider (e.g. Tidal). The renderer part of the NDS does its work whichever the source, and presents the files to the DAC, whether the internal one or an external one. General opinion is that the rendering part of the NDS is very good, so the implication is that it has a positive effect on SQ compared to many other choices. The network can affect sound quality if it either corrupts, interrupts or introduces RF noise, and in general it is probably best for sound quality to have the shortest, simplest network path between NAS and NDS. Online streaming is likely to suffer from greater problems, as indeed many on the discussions on these forums testify. I don't know if that helps!

But if all you want is Tidal and not multiple methods of streaming, and top quality is not important, then an NDS would seem to be overkill and you don't need a NAS, so enabling a much less costly approach.

Hi Innocent Bystander

Many thanks - your technical knowledge is just what I was looking for.

The renderer part of the NDS will affect the sound quality of the music files contained on the NAS, prior to the file being served to the DAC. So it seems that the NDS would be the obvious choice within an all Naim system.

Albeit home demo is essential comparing NDS to other standalone DAC solutions. 

Trev

But if you get an NDS you do not need another DAC - it can act as a DAC with digital inputs.

Trev

The quality of each component in the streaming process is vital: Rendering, DAC, analogue stage, regulated power supplies to each.

NDS with a 55PS is by far the best solution I have heard. That is why I use one I also run an NDX + nDAC + XPS in my other system. It's also very good, but that's 3 boxes and 4 power cords. NDS sounds better though.

NDS is also a top notch DAC able to accept extrnal digital signals via coaxial or optical inputs. It will also control your 552: input choices, volume and mute.

Adam

Thanks Adam

Your comments reinforce things further and it looks like an NDS is hot favourite.

I expect it will completely destroy my CDS2.

Must find out bout the switches, ripping methods and file types etc!!

Trev

impy posted:

Thanks Adam

Your comments reinforce things further and it looks like an NDS is hot favourite.

I expect it will completely destroy my CDS2.

Must find out bout the switches, ripping methods and file types etc!!

Trev

 

NDS sounds very analogue - it is that good.  It is only bettered by my LP12

Network set up is simple. This is an illustrative diagram (courtesy of Mike-B):

My set up is practically identical to this picture:
ISP modem (with WiFi switched off) connected via LAN cable to Apple Airport Extreme (this starts and defines my home network). A simple LAN cable then goes from Airport Extreme to a Cisco unmanaged switch. All network devices are then connected to a switch via LAN cables (NAS, 4 NAIM streamers). iPads are used to control the streaming.

Ripping:
There are various methods: PC / MAC or a dedicated ripper / server like UnitiServe or Melco. I use UnitiServe SSD.

NAS
Most popular amongs this forum users are: Synology and QNAP (I use QNAP Silent NAS with 2 x 6TB drives)

UPnP server:
Popular server software is: Audirvana, Minimmserver.
Alternatively if you run a UnitiServe no additional software is needed on a NAS, as US is a UPnP server too.

File formats:
Best sound quality will come from uncompressed file formats: WAV or AIFF.
FLAC is also popular (this is a losless compression format).

Adam

Another angle on this would be to point out that both servers and DACs are still rapidly evolving technologies, and there are advantages to not being locked in to a single proprietary system. I'm not able to make a sonic comparison with an NDS/555 which I expect is fantastic if you can afford it, but I can say that an Aurender server and software have transformed both sound and ease of use from my previous Mac Mini/Amarra. I spent years wrestling with Amarra and every upgrade to the software introduced new problems. At last I decided to stop messing about and go for a dedicated server. What I hadn't expected was that it would sound so much better...  and the iPad app is just great. So I have at present about 2TB of CD and high-res download files on the Aurender, and also stream both Tidal and Qobuz – if you listen to much classical music, Qobuz is a wonder. Meanwhile I changed DAC for more up to date capabilities – I'm very happy with the sound of my Luxman although if I were doing this again I'd go for a DAC with updatable firmware, like the server. Incidentally I use Audirvana for my desktop system and agree with that recommendation. 

impy posted:

Thanks Adam

Your comments reinforce things further and it looks like an NDS is hot favourite.

I expect it will completely destroy my CDS2.

Must find out bout the switches, ripping methods and file types etc!!

Trev

 

Hello Trev,

I'm not so sure the NDS will completely destroy your CDS2. For pure musical enjoyment, I still prefer listening to my CDS3 over the SBT into DAC/XPS2. Some well-recorded red book CDs are just special through a good CD player. But there's no denying streaming can sound very clean and detailed so a lot of people have transitioned from analogue sources. You should really try the offerings in your system in your home.

Others have already chimed in but I just want to mention that you could try the Mac Mini into a DAC first. Then maybe try the NDS and see if the streamer/network player makes a difference. You could even skip the DAC since as previously mentioned, the NDS has digital inputs so you could try the Mac Mini into the NDS as well. The Naim DAC and DAC portion of the NDS sound a bit different hence the first suggestion. Nowadays, there's so much choice! But it's fun experimenting

Arun

Afternoon gents

Many thanks for your most useful replies. which has opened my eyes to the various options available.

Does anybody have any ideas on how the sound of the NDS will compare to my CDS2?

i don't want a "pipe and slippers" relaxed sound that will lack the prat that I am looking for. A musically involving, foot tapping sound is what I am looking for.

Any other suggestions welcome.

Thanks

Trev

Trev, that's a call only you can make. I wouldn't swap my CDS3 for an NDS of any configuration, but you may hear differently. A CDS2 is still a great spinner of discs.

The NDS/555dr will have a real synergy with your amps. Its certainly not pipe and slippers but its also not harsh and edgy either. I find it has a really natural sound in my system. The high notes go really high but retain lots of detail, rather than just sounding shrill. The mid ranges on voices sound so natural its as if someone is in the room with you. The bottom end reaches lower than ive ever heard it while still sounding tight, solid and tuneful. 

I upgraded from NDX/Ndac/555dr, which was an excellent combo but I knew within seconds that what I was now hearing was staying as it was just so much better in every way. 

With a 552/500 you owe it to yourself to at least audition an NDS/555dr before making any final judgements. 

An NDS/555dr will live up to the rest of your system. Most likely, you'll gradually stop listening to spinning silver disks and just listen to the NDS - that's most people's experience (not everyone's, he said hastily, ducking under his desk). 

The quality of the streamer/renderer has a very significant effect on the music, as does the DAC. What doesn't make much difference is the NAS and ethernet cabling (although some disagree, he said, now lying on the floor under a cushion). Get a QNAP and decent, generic shielded cables.

If, at this point, you're more interested in just trying streaming out, and aren't sure whether it's for you, a Unitiqute will tell you the answer - it's obviously nowhere near the quality of an NDS, but it's a fun little thing and you can get a taste of the new world with low investment, especially if you buy it second hand.

With a 552/500 you owe it to yourself to at least audition an NDS/555dr before making any final judgements. 

That's what Naim were using at the Bristol Show this year to demo the 500 system at to repeat you owe it to yourself to a least audition the NDS it is simply awesome.

Wilko posted:

Another angle on this would be to point out that both servers and DACs are still rapidly evolving technologies, and there are advantages to not being locked in to a single proprietary system. 

The UPnP standard that Naim use for its streamers has been around for many years now.  I would feel perfectly comfortable buying a Naim streamer player (ND5XS, NDX, NDS) without worry that the technology will not live long enough.  Nor is it proprietary technology; in fact, servers (both the hardware and software) are quite non-proprietary.  One can purchase a nas and hard drives and shareware server software quite inexpensively, and rest assured that no locking-in has occurred.

Perhaps dac's are evolving faster? So what?  What you buy today will sound as good as it does today 10 years from now.  

The alternative is to just get out the vinyl . . . 

Just jump in.  The water is fine.

Bart posted:

Wilko posted:

Another angle on this would be to point out that both servers and DACs are still rapidly evolving technologies, and there are advantages to not being locked in to a single proprietary system. 

The UPnP standard that Naim use for its streamers has been around for many years now.  I would feel perfectly comfortable buying a Naim streamer player (ND5XS, NDX, NDS) without worry that the technology will not live long enough.  Nor is it proprietary technology; in fact, servers (both the hardware and software) are quite non-proprietary.  One can purchase a nas and hard drives and shareware server software quite inexpensively, and rest assured that no locking-in has occurred.

Perhaps dac's are evolving faster? So what?  What you buy today will sound as good as it does today 10 years from now.  

The alternative is to just get out the vinyl . . . 

Just jump in.  The water is fine.

However, maybe you can right now get better quality than the NDS at a similar price, or similar quality, at a lower price, if you don't stay locked to one brand, and/or perhaps buy renderer and DAC separately. If the 'Naim sound' is what you want, then the preamp is the thing to have Naim as that is where the emphasis is introduced, not the streamer. Of course it also depends on whether you want matching black boxes with illuminated green insignia, or simply like to be a single-brand person - you pays your money and makes your choice. Most of the suggestions on here are unlikely to disappoint, and will give the CD the OP is used to a run for its money, no doubt leading to more and more reliance on streaming from the NAS, Mac Mini, or whatever other home store.

Trev - this may be too basic but here's what you need to 'stream' music:

Somewhere to store your own ripped music. (NAS, computer, Naim Unitiserve, even the Naim HDX, which is also a streamer - see below). If you only want to use internet radio or a music service like Spotify/Tidal etc you don't need this first element;

Something - conventionally called a streamer but strictly speaking a renderer - to find your ripped music and/or internet music eg Spotify, Tidal, internet radio (in increasing order if quality - ND5 XS, NDX, NDS - the latter requires a separate power supply - SP5 XS, XPS, 555PS - in order to work at all, the first two don't require a power supply but can be upgraded with one);

Something to convert the digital music, whether your own or from the internet, into analogue ie a DAC (all the Naim streamers above have an in-built DAC, but you can also use a separate stand-alone DAC eg Chord Hugo);

Something to amplify the music (which you already have, so you can safely ignore the Naim Uniti range).

Aplogies if too simplistic but may help to sort it out in your mind.

Nick

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bart posted:

Wilko posted:

Another angle on this would be to point out that both servers and DACs are still rapidly evolving technologies, and there are advantages to not being locked in to a single proprietary system. 

The UPnP standard that Naim use for its streamers has been around for many years now.  I would feel perfectly comfortable buying a Naim streamer player (ND5XS, NDX, NDS) without worry that the technology will not live long enough.  Nor is it proprietary technology; in fact, servers (both the hardware and software) are quite non-proprietary.  One can purchase a nas and hard drives and shareware server software quite inexpensively, and rest assured that no locking-in has occurred.

Perhaps dac's are evolving faster? So what?  What you buy today will sound as good as it does today 10 years from now.  

The alternative is to just get out the vinyl . . . 

Just jump in.  The water is fine.

However, maybe you can right now get better quality than the NDS at a similar price, or similar quality, at a lower price, if you don't stay locked to one brand, and/or perhaps buy renderer and DAC separately. 

Which was not the point of the post to which I responded.

As an aside, the Naim "system" is not a "proprietary system."  A Naim server can be used with any UPnP streamer player, and vice versa.

Trev

just audition NDS/555PSDR.

While you are at it, ask you dealer to bring the following interconnect: SuperLumina DIN-DIN. Let's just say - it is THAT good

Adam