If every variable is controlled, what numbers would the Naim items get?

In terms of 'CLOSENESS TO REALITY' one of the biggest variables is all the gear and the trickery that goes on at the recording studio.  Perhaps you mean purely reality in terms of recreating the master recording, and let's be fair, that's all you can ask of a hifi system, but that itself may bear little resemblance to the reality of what a musical instrument, or human voice, actually sounds like.  From top of the range down to the Qb thing, there will be recordings that come across relatively believable, and many that do not.  That has to be accepted, so the only important thing is whether you're able to enjoy the way that they are delivered, regardless of any deviation from reality, and that is something that all of the Naim products seem to score very well on.  Personally I couldn't put a number on it, either for a system as a whole, or individual bits of one, and I certainly wouldn't care what number anyone else assigned.

Doesn't Martin Colloms of Hifi Critic fame have a scoring system like this?

I believe it has passed 100 now, with the NAP500DR up around 375.

Best regards, FT

SongStream posted:

so the only important thing is whether you're able to enjoy the way that they are delivered, regardless of any deviation from reality.

Yep. Enjoyment is the key. I've heard some very 'accurate' systems that seem to lack that 'just one more track and i'll go to bed' way of keeping you listening for far longer than you really intended. We all like our music playback delivered differently - some live for the PR&T, some like to hear the pianist shifting weight from left to right buttock.

At the end of the day, If you enjoy the end result, end up buying tons of music and spending a bit too much time listening to it then you're probably on the right track 

Good luck putting numbers on it.

Reality is a mental construct, which when combined with state of mind, makes 'closeness to reality' a moving target. 

I'm sure that Martin Colloms' numbering system makes complete sense to him. Unfortunately, it cannot be reliably exported to another human brain.

IMHO of course,

Jan

I really don't know what the OP means by Closeness to Reality . . . what reality are you referring to?

A kettle drum makes more noise than a flute, so is this 'reality' experienced when standing next to the flautist or the percussionist? Or in the auditorium, and if so, where? The conductor will hear a different 'reality' from you.

An electric guitar in 'reality' makes almost no noise at all. You can barely hear it from across the room. So does this 'reality' include electric amplification? Because it is clearly a manipulation of the sound.

This is the problem with any concept of hi fi achieving something close to 'reality'. There is simply no such thing. Best to focus instead on what sounds good to you when sitting in your lounge - context is far more important than 'reality'.

Foot tapper posted:

I believe it has passed 100 now, with the NAP500DR up around 375.

Just 125 to go then!

What's with this need to rank everything? Surely all that matters is that one enjoys one's music when played on one's system. You might as well ask us to rank pasta shapes on their ability to hold a sauce, which would very likely be far more interesting. 

I rate the 'S2'* pasta as a 10:

*when viewed on end, you have a 2 or an S, depending on end viewed and ounces of wine consumed.

Uhmmm, Closeness To Reality.

I really do enjoy live performances, don't get the opportunity to engage these days.

However, on those rare occasions, Three venues seem to come to mind, The Acoustically Perfect Theater, that seats roughly 3K, The Outdoors shells, that can also accompany large numbers, and the intimate night club, that can accommodate a couple hundred at most. The acoustically perfect theater, can be a treat, but the set up must be flawless, The outdoor shells are wonderful from afar, with an Ice cold cooler near bye. However,  my favorite is the intimate club, vocalist, drummer, pianist, bass, and perhaps a horn, or  guitar, Magic!

Set up is not that difficult, consistency is conformed, and you are right there!

As far as a number, with all other variables controlled, with MY SYSTEM, and that perfect night being an 100%, I would give my system an A, not a B+, that's right 92%.

You know what I mean, you have about 300 CDs, but Only about twenty at most, that you que up when entertaining that special guest, that have a taste for fine music! 

Otherwise I tend to agree with Songstream:

 ...so the only important thing is whether you're able to enjoy the way that they are delivered, regardless of any deviation from reality, and that is something that all of the Naim products seem to score very well on.

Allante93! 

naim_nymph posted:

Another number like that, this post will be closed, or moved to the padded cell! LOL....

Allante93!

naim_nymph posted:

How true it is. 

We missed you Fritz!

Gianluigi Mazzorana posted:

We missed you Fritz!

+ lots! 

I have been a member of the forum for the last 10 years and have to say things have got very analytical almost scientific on some of the posts I read. It's almost like an ocd obsession with their equipment.I sometimes wonder if some of the posters go to bed at night reading the Naim website reciting it in their minds in an almost biblical way.

I would love to see this thread posted on The Wam they would laugh their bollocks off

It's like Hifi Top Trumps: loudness 9, head banging 8, emotional depth 6, nearness to reality 6, prat 7, inky blackness 4...... I suggest the OP reads Nick Hornby's wonderful High Fidelity... Men and their lists. 

Well, it's a big wide world out there.

Live music by artists that some of us like and others don't.

Recorded music stored on LPs, CDs, USBs and whatever else.

Retrieval systems made by Alba, Naim and Krell and all stations in between.

Where do you start ?

Something that sounds nice and gives me enjoyment. That would be the Roberts Radio in the kitchen or the Alpine dashboard-filler in the car.

Something that gives me similar enjoyment to when I go to a rock concert. That would be the Naim system, turned up too high with terrible, treble distortion and over-blown bass.

Or something realistically ideal, what I imagine a rock concert should sound like if they used high quality equipment well within its pre-distortion limit. That would be the Krell.

Now, how to find the time and the retailers with both the time and patience to let me audition ALL the equipment available - in my own home, in my own time - until I find what I like (or think I like).

Perhaps instead, with life all but too short, I'll join an Audio Forum, learn the lingo, ask some advice, draw up a short-list, pop down to a couple of dealers (unless I live in the Canadian Out-back) who have done most of the "donkey work" for a quick audition and bingo............home and dry..............except............

.......these days the "advice" on the Forum is ..........."use your own ears, and listen to all the equipment available, and make up your own mind"..........so...

..back to square one.

I do love this Forum

Ha ha ha!  Many of you mock me, but isn't the whole raison d'être in the hifi media about reviewing items?!!

AND Giving them SCORES?

Maths is beautiful and numbers are its pearls!!

Reviews are, as ever, a matter of personal taste: usually that of a named reviewer (hi, folks!) but sometimes the outpourings of a mysterious cabal. The numbers – be they percentages, globes, stars or whatever – are usually there as an eye-catcher for those who can't be bothered to read the review, or who read the last page of detective novels first. You can be pretty sure that the publication has sweated a lot less over the score than many readers seem to.

In other words: read the reviews, don't scratch your head too much about the scores, but most of all listen – the product or system you think sounds best will be the one you'll enjoy the most, regardless of how many whatevers a magazine or website gave it, and what the reviewer said.

Yes, you can get to know the tastes of reviewers, and the systems they use, and some of them have enough experience to draw broader conclusions from what they hear in their own familiar set-ups, which may help you decide what's worth auditioning. However, if you disagree with their findings when you listen, then as far as your choice is concerned they're wrong, and you're right.

And that's all that matters.

100 % all the gear and no idea....., but we are all learning something.

you can get to know the tastes of reviewers, and the systems they use, and some of them have enough experience to draw broader conclusions from what they hear in their own familiar set-ups.

 

Read them long enough you can see how taste and listening preferences can change and evolve, particularly when A product comes around that seems to draw a big consensus as being great amongst fellow reviewers. These people have the privilege of being able to listen to many more products than I could ever listen to in many lifetimes,   But I can imagine that most of that time and effort reviewing results in a " Meh".

The greatest quandary facing reviewers is that despite what they actually think, they always have to put a positive spin on any gear they are sent for fear that a wholly negative (and perhaps objective) review will result in manufacturers no longer willing to send them their products, thereby cutting off the reviewers lifeblood.

Joe

Not to mention advertising revenue in magazines.I have never seen an Absolute Sound product get a bad review in HiFI news by Ken Kessler.They are big spenders with them and their not going to upset them and risk a loss of revenue.

Tabby cat posted:

Joe

Not to mention advertising revenue in magazines.I have never seen an Absolute Sound product get a bad review in HiFI news by Ken Kessler.They are big spenders with them and their not going to upset them and risk a loss of revenue.

 

I can't say i've seen a bad review for a Naim product either. Mags are just a good read to see what's new and a guide to where you may want to go. We tend to align ourselves with people of similar tastes (whether music, equipment etc) and probably do the same with reviewers in magazines. 

Ok I take your points!

(But then here comes the numbers again.... cost?) Regardless of what you say about reviews, plot a graph (price vs REALISM) of all products from, e.g....

Active Naim Statements into Sonus Faber Aida speakers

to

Naim MuSo

What shape does it go?  Without lingering on the rhetoric, we all know the graph shows a high correlation.

Therefore justifying my original question!!