Setting up speakers.

What kind of speakers are they?  Most speaker designs are indeterminate as to channel, but not all... 

Sopra 2.    Just curious if amp terminals at rear of amp relate to speakers looking from the back of the system, or looking at the system from the front.  Only asking as I noticed that the speaker cables are 'crossed over'.  My speakers are connected to the right and left looking at the front 'listening' position.

I don't believe the Focals have designated channels.  

Crossing over is fairly normal as the seemingly backwards designation of Ch 1/Left & Ch 2/Right on the rear is an aspect of the original Naim amp design for professional use that has carried over.

Naimless posted:

Sopra 2.    Just curious if amp terminals at rear of amp relate to speakers looking from the back of the system, or looking at the system from the front.  Only asking as I noticed that the speaker cables are 'crossed over'.  My speakers are connected to the right and left looking at the front 'listening' position.

Yes with Naim, your speaker cables will cross over like that at the back of the amp.  As intended!

Thanks MARKMCK79.

Was more curious if it would affect the music delivery in respect that CDs etc are printed to position artists instruments etc in a particular way,  or do they ?????

Yes, you will want to make sure that each speaker is wired to the correct channel (left/right) and also properly in phase.  There are many test cd's available with test tracks (dogs barking in only the left channel or right) and with tracks that are easy to tell if each speaker is in phase.  In the US the Stereophile & Reference Recordings test CDs are fairly easy to come by.  Not sure where you are located...

MarkMcK79 posted:

I don't believe the Focals have designated channels.  

 

Neither pair of my Focals (816SWE and 1028be) do.  

Mark,

 Thanks for the advice.  I downloaded an audio tester and confirmed that my system is set up correctly.  Little bit confusing from Naim as you would expect the terminals closest to the speakers would be correct but as correctly informed by all on this thread the speaker cables do cross.

Thanks to all.

Some speakers are designed to have a specific l&r speaker,sometimes the tweeter is mounted off center and l&r are determined by that. I don't think focals are. From the front (facing the speaker) left should be to your left. As to if they are hooked up to the proper channel,you only need to move the balance to one side if the sound moves to the correct side-done if not ,time to root around behind speakers and re-check the markings

The wires only cross if the amplifier is between the speakers, where, ideally, it shouldn't be. 

Only way wires won't cross is if the amp faces backwards....

I'm not sure I should ask this but here goes.  Why shouldn't the amp be between the speakers??  I'm guessing it's a vibration issue, as complete novice my thinking is that the speakers would create sound wave turbulence that equipment racks etc can't eliminate. Lateral vibration.  I prefer the visual set up of my system so stuck with the boxes between the speakers, and biggest plus is wife hates to see cables so less noise generated from that source.......

Naimless posted:

Only way wires won't cross is if the amp faces backwards....

My gear is located behind me on the back wall, so effectively facing backward as you say and the wires do not cross. Never gave it a thought until reading this. I guess it works the same on the side walls as HH suggests.

Naimless posted:

I'm not sure I should ask this but here goes.  Why shouldn't the amp be between the speakers??  I'm guessing it's a vibration issue, as complete novice my thinking is that the speakers would create sound wave turbulence that equipment racks etc can't eliminate. Lateral vibration.  I prefer the visual set up of my system so stuck with the boxes between the speakers, and biggest plus is wife hates to see cables so less noise generated from that source.......

JV maintained that it was because of wave front diffraction - basically it screws up the sound stage (possibly among other things) because the stuff between the speakers gets in the way of the sound. I'd guess that this would likely be less of an issue if you can bring your speakers forward of whatever is between them, but with boundary designs like HH's SL2s or my SBLs that's not much of an option.

Naimless posted:

biggest plus is wife hates to see cables so less noise generated from that source.......

I think it mostly has to do with situating the gear in an area that minimizes the sound energy being transferred to the gear cases. You can easily hear the bass energy if you place your head at various locations while the music is played. Between the speakers is not a great choice, nor are room corners. Sidewalls or the mid back wall are better locations. Another room even better. In the end though, domestic constraints often dictate location of the rack. as you suggest.

Dave***t posted:

Naimless posted:

I'm not sure I should ask this but here goes.  Why shouldn't the amp be between the speakers??

JV maintained that it was because of wave front diffraction - basically it screws up the sound stage (possibly among other things) because the stuff between the speakers gets in the way of the sound............................

Does that include "anything" between the speakers?  e.g. Chimney breast, furniture etc etc or just hifi components?

It would include anything at all. Though the difference would vary according to the size & shape. It's to do with the shape and how the sound waves from the speakers are perturbed as they travel through the air, rather than microphony or anything (though there may or may not be reasons relating to microphony or other effects too, I don't know).

Hard things with sharp corners would be worst, which clearly includes a load of HiFi boxes. But anything could have an effect to some extent. Whether you'd notice is another matter - the effect may well be negligible in some cases, I don't know.

No personal expertise here, I'm just going by what JV said. But he was quite clear about it, and it makes sense. Think of sound spreading out from the speaker like ripples on the surface of a pond. Hard corners will in effect act like little sources of their own.

I don't think the JV post archive counts as a commercial site, so should be ok to post a link. If it's not, Richard, then perhaps there's another similar resource? 

http://mangold3000.com/Mangold.../Naim_Audio_022.html

Dave***t posted:

It would include anything at all. Though the difference would vary according to the size & shape. It's to do with the shape and how the sound waves from the speakers are perturbed as they travel through the air, rather than microphony or anything (though there may or may not be reasons relating to microphony or other effects too, I don't know)..............

I obviously understand that we live in the real world but if that really is the case, then as a quick look at the system pics threads proves, very few systems have absolutely nothing between the speakers so potentially aren't sounding their best.......

Things between and in front of the speakers tend to bother me the most. If the speakers are well in front of the wall you can get away with things behind them. Higher items, say a 6-tier rack, are usually worse then lower ones (like two 3-tier racks side by side). But to a certain degree everything matters... 

Johnell posted:

Dave***t posted:

It would include anything at all. Though the difference would vary according to the size & shape. It's to do with the shape and how the sound waves from the speakers are perturbed as they travel through the air, rather than microphony or anything (though there may or may not be reasons relating to microphony or other effects too, I don't know)..............

I obviously understand that we live in the real world but if that really is the case, then as a quick look at the system pics threads proves, very few systems have absolutely nothing between the speakers so potentially aren't sounding their best.......

Yep, just so. I have no choice but to have my gear between the speakers (I live in a small flat), and spent a fair bit of time experimenting with how far from the wall to put my SBLs. It was remarkable how much small movements back and forth changed the sound. I'm talking a centimetre this way or that.

Further out and some aspects of realism, eg well recorded snare hits, became much more real. More 'in the room'. I put that down at least in part to the fact that with the speakers further out, less of the gear was in the way. But the downside was that there was more glare and the sound became a bit piercing and fatiguing. Less bass too. This was with SBLs, after all. So it was all about finding a compromise - like you say, real world and all that.

But I'm sure it varies with all manner of factors, not least speaker design. Speakers which can happily be further out from the wall than SBLs and SL2s can probably be positioned so as to avoid the effect at least to an extent. But it' worth experimenting - it could end up being a free upgrade which you'd never consider putting back the was before, or you might think it makes no difference. Nothing lost either way, and understanding gained regardless.

Johnell posted:

Dave***t posted:

Naimless posted:

I'm not sure I should ask this but here goes.  Why shouldn't the amp be between the speakers??

JV maintained that it was because of wave front diffraction - basically it screws up the sound stage (possibly among other things) because the stuff between the speakers gets in the way of the sound............................

Does that include "anything" between the speakers?  e.g. Chimney breast, furniture etc etc or just hifi components?

The popular consensus is that a chimney breast and fire between the speakers sounds the best.

Naimless posted:

Little bit confusing from Naim as you would expect the terminals closest to the speakers would be correct but as correctly informed by all on this thread the speaker cables do cross.

It's tradition. The first Naim power amps were built and used in commercial racks with what we think of as the back end facing front. Retaining this design is one of those little eccentricities that make Naim Naim and for all I know, sounds best.