I don't know what I don't know ...

Given you speakers, and your apparent preference for going backwards, I guess a 250DR is pretty much inevitable....but maybe a 282 should come first? That in turn will leave your system crying out for a DAC upgrade.

I would say - 282 should come first.

Thanks for this ChrisSu, I have no preference for direction, just what works but this will be my last upgrades so don't want to go to anything that will change in the next year or 2.

Hence why pre-amp is left till later given rumours of new boxes coming; and the streaming and DAC until some stability comes into the market.

If I was going the pre-am route just now I might even consider a 252 ... but I think the 272 is just the opening shot from Naim in the pre-amp/streaming consolidation market.

Allan

Hi Allan,

I would look at the pre-amp and/or radikal for the LP12 first.

If you are concerned about a 282 (the obvious choice), you might consider a 272/XPS, trading in the 202, Hicap and DAC-V1.

Once you have done these 2 (pre-amp & Radikal), then those B&Ws really do need a 250DR to begin the get the best out of them.

It is so nice spending someone else's money for a change....

Best regards, FT

Allan Milne posted:

Thanks for this ChrisSu, I have no preference for direction, just what works but this will be my last upgrades so don't want to go to anything that will change in the next year or 2.

Hence why pre-amp is left till later given rumours of new boxes coming; and the streaming and DAC until some stability comes into the market.

 

If I was going the pre-am route just now I might even consider a 252 ... but I think the 272 is just the opening shot from Naim in the pre-amp/streaming consolidation market.

Allan

I understand your concern about investing in products that may soon be superseded by something better, but sooner or later, you have to take the plunge and buy something that is actually available. Of course Naim will release new products in the course of time, but I suspect your 'rumours of new boxes coming' are based on pure speculation on this forum. Naim never publish their intentions until a product is close enough to release that their marketing dept makes an official announcement. Don't hold your breath! 

I had a lot of what you have in your kit: Lp12, 202 HC NAPSC, 200, V1. I had no opportunity to audition different alternatives and went to 252/250. Big upgrade in all aspects. I'm very happy with my kit, but separates have many pros in terms of flwxibility and SQ but the con of the number of boxes. Sometimes I think if I should have gone through the 272 route. I decided to keep the 200 to try it later for another kit.

There are different opinions regarding the 282 while the 252/250 and 272/250 kits have a clearer acceptance.

Regarding  your concern about buying products that may be superseded by something new, there are two alternatives: to look aside as others dance now while you wait for the princess or join the party and enjoy.

Allan Milne posted:

I'm in a quandry (again!) - ..........

So now into what I don't know that I don't know ... here is my plan, made after some research but no listneing yet:
* NAP 200 to NAP 250DR (don't have a large room and don't listen loud);
* Add Kore, Radikal and Urika to LP12 (Keel seems overpriced for what you seem to get from a Kore?);
* replace LP12 project arm/Klyde with Ekos SE/Kandid;
* pre-amp replaced later if/when new models come on stream;
* leave DAC V1/UnitiServ until streaming world settles down (sounds great just now anyway).

comments please on sequence, components and VFM?......

thanks,
Allan

Sure, your last Upgrade! Nice plan of attack, I can see you've given this matter, a lot of thought.

 I would like to piggy-back from Foot Tapper, and Erich, who have offered some excellent advice

FT, Posted:

"I would look at the pre-amp and/or radikal for the LP12 first.

If you are concerned about a 282 (the obvious choice), you might consider a 272/XPS, trading in the 202, Hicap and DAC-V1.

Once you have done these 2 (pre-amp & Radikal), then those B&Ws really do need a 250DR to begin the get the best out of them"

This guy, been around the Block, a couple of times!

Sweet and Simple.

Based on the most important factor, your input.

(Last Upgrade, Source, and the mere fact, that you mentioned a 252.)

In short, I agree, 2007 CES debuts, Naim's Top Source: CD555/282/Snaxo/250/Active DBL

Don't be concerned about an 282!

Now Erich, well, he most certainly should get your attention, he's lived with your kit.

Proponent of 252/250

2 Alternatives, Marque Separates, or 272

Pros: Flexibility & SQ

Cons: box count

Based on your input, I don't think you're that keen on the 272, this early in the Streaming game.

What does Allante, have to say?

I agree with both of these gentleman, and the Forum, and would go with the logical choice of a 282, but first, a decent rack if you haven't already invested in one.  

A Fraim, Coupled with a wall support for your

LP 12/Kandid, would be an excellent choice, no matter which route you choose!

MM/Ndac/555PS/LP 12/Superline/SCDR/282/SCDR/250DR/803 D3s

That's a lot of Black Boxes!

Sure looks Sweet!

Enjoy your Music, The Why!

Allante93!

Thanks all for these considered replies, all relevant and all will be considered carefully.

The thing is I have the funds to do everything now but have been convinced that it will be more fun to do everything bit by bit and enjoy the incremental improvements. As a positive sidebar to this, I may also then manage to sneak a little more past my director of finance who's response to any upgrade is usually "How much !!!!... and for what!!!!" (I particularly remember this in connection with an interconnect

So the thing is to get the right kit, not necessarily at the "right" time, so that the ultimate system works well.

I already have a Fraim but had not considered wall-mounting my LP12 - will look into this ... sorry no pictures but I am blind so you would probably get a pic of the curtains or wall if I attempted it!

I agree with everyone regarding sequence but it is also a matter of convenience since, although my dealer is only 20 miles away, I do not have transport and there is no public transport so getting to/from him can be a trial ... therefore the box replacements for home demo (that he delivers) are much more convenient than the listening sessions to LP12 upgrades ... in fact I have a 250DR coming next week for a demo.

Also can I go back to my original title for this post ... I don't know what I will be hearing or should be listening for !

I read all the reports about mid-range, better defined bass, etc etc but what does this mean in terms of the music?

Or to put it another way, what can you say to a non hi-fi listener to tell him/her (who thinks what you have is already brilliant) what they will hear better when an upgrade is added?

This hobby is great since you get the joy of listening to music PLUS the Yabba-Yabba  of discussing the kit.

cheers all,

Allan

Allan Milne posted:

 

The thing is I have the funds to do everything now but have been convinced that it will be more fun to do everything bit by bit and enjoy the incremental improvements.  

Except that it's not going to be fun, and you're not going to enjoy it.  As you add each new piece, you'll dissect what it did to the system,  and convince yourself that only with the NEXT "upgrade" will things finally settle in.  You'll change something, hear no difference, and struggle to figure out why that is.  Of course you never will.  You'll spend months and months never as happy as you are right now.

282 - then 250. Simples.

Allan Milne posted:

 

Thanks all......

I already have a Fraim but had not considered wall-mounting my LP12 - will look into this ... sorry no pictures but I am blind so you would probably get a pic of the curtains or wall if I attempted it!

 ... therefore the box replacements for home demo (that he delivers) are much more convenient than the listening sessions to LP12 upgrades ... in fact I have a 250DR coming next week ......

 This hobby is great since you get the joy of listening to music PLUS the Yabba-Yabba  of discussing the kit.

 

cheers all,

Allan

Wow! Didn't think, to check your profile.

Nac A5 & Fraim listed.

Very inspiring, I got the feel, from your input, that your preferred source is the analog TT.

Hence, the suggestion of the wall mount. 

Well, you already have the Fraim, so what do you think about your System, which I gladly put together for you! LOL...

Curious, how does Jaws, decipher a succession of periods.

MM/Ndac/555PS/LP 12/Superline/SCDR/282/SCDR/250DR/803 D3

Sure looks Sweet! Trust Me!

From what I've read, related to lost of sences, I would imagine, your hearing, is point on!

Enjoy your Music, The Why!

Bart posted:

Allan Milne posted:

 

The thing is I have the funds to do everything now but have been convinced that it will be more fun to do everything bit by bit and enjoy the incremental improvements.  

Except that it's not going to be fun, and you're not going to enjoy it.  As you add each new piece, you'll dissect what it did to the system,  and convince yourself that only with the NEXT "upgrade" will things finally settle in.  You'll change something, hear no difference, and struggle to figure out why that is.  Of course you never will.  You'll spend months and months never as happy as you are right now.

The incremental upgrade process works for me, but only after deciding on a definite endgame based on listening, then spreading the cost by buying the components one at a time. Once you've reached that endgame, you should then know that you're in a good place to stop and just enjoy the music while your bank balance recovers. 

I'd think about the arm. It was a big step up for me. I can't comment on Keel or Radikal. My TT was gone for a week or two for installation of each, and I didn't have a feel for the differences, given the time lag. This suggests the differences were not night and day, in contrast to other people's experiences.

Bart - you are an old cynic! (even if you are probably right)
Of course I will enjoy every step on the journey, every pound (well its £k now I suppose!) will be demoed first and only spent when I'm convinced I CAN hear a difference;
 ... and it doesn't matter if this is a difference bred of expectations or not, if you can hear it then it is real (wow - philosophy 101 here I come:

Ian - but do I get a cuddly toy!

Allante93 - thanks for good advice, in answer to your queries:
The TT is now my source of choice for "serious" listening with the UnitiServ having all my old CD collection used for more fun although it is still excellent and has 4 times more music than I have on vinyl; I just find the TT warmer and more realistic in some sense.
I love my system, just think I could love it more It seems accurate to me, warm, expressive and detailed - I only got the 803d speakers for a few months and they still have the wow factor on music I am playing on them for the first time.
Jaws either reads " dot dot dot" or sometimes "ellipses".
I am not sure whether my hearing is "better" or its just that I pay more attention to it than sighted people.
Whatever, you are right - it's all about the music.

Chris - bang on !

JRHardee - thanks, I'm totally unaware of what to expect with arms; whether the Akito would be better VFM than the Ekos or not.
Appreciate what you say about the Radikal and Keel and the time lag; hence my thoughts of demoing at the dealers first with an A/B comparison.

Thanks all, loving the chat,
Allan

Allan, yes I meant my post to be both accurate, and just a tad cynical.  It sounds like you know what you're getting yourself into.  Keep us apprised of your progress and thoughts!