Active NAP500 DR Upgrade

Posted by: Darke Bear on 13 August 2016

I recently got my set of three Nap500 re-capped and upgraded to DR two weeks ago. They were eight years old so I was going to get it done in the next year or two anyway, but hearing friends DR update performance-lift in passive systems I was suitably impressed and wondered how it would sound in Active use.

Last year I purchased the S1 Pre which was a large upgrade in performance from the 552 I had been using. Add to that the full loom of SL leads I got at the same time and I’ve experienced a large lift in musical performance already – I was wondering if I was being greedy, the answer is obviously yes!

I’ll leave aside the painful run-in experiences, aside from that I really needed ten days warm-up to get from variable ‘HiFi’ sound to music-making. There is still run-in going on, which manifests as a meandering sinusoidal increase and decrease in performance over time, but it has settled enough to get some first impressions.

I’m very pleased and impressed with what the DR does. There is a lift in clarity and removal of ‘gaps’ in the resolution when music becomes complex or loud – it was as if before things gently smeared-out the resolution at transients. This is especially noticeable on drums and bass guitar notes when played fast. Now there is more power and definition on busy riffs that was not there before.

Overall the Amps produce a bigger and brighter picture of the performance – a larger window into the musical performance.

For example, on the old Renaissance ‘A Song for all Seasons’ which is a complex Prog-Rock with Orchestra, guitar, synth and Annie Haslam’s powerful soprano vocals the album becomes a live album! A friend who knows the Album well and my system, was convinced I’d swapped the CD for a live version – I had to extract the disk for his scrutiny before he admitted it was the same old CD. That particular CD (an old version) has large dynamic range and a lot going on that is now beautifully rendered with clearer insight into the performance and Artist-intent than I’ve heard before.

Overall the DR 500 resolves lower frequencies better and has lower distortion in the high frequencies. The LF does seem to have a lower roll-off point too – it is more seamless and fulsome in a good way. This matches what the S1 Pre did, as that also took the bass performance much lower with far better power and control. The combo CD555S (2x555PS)-  S1 Pre – 3x500 DR with Ovator S800 works together beautifully as a system in my opinion.

The usual question is – ‘why don’t you go Passive S1 Monoblocks instead of Active 500DR?

They are different systems in what they each do well and I prefer what I have done along the Active path.
I’d love the S1 Monoblocks as they are beautiful and in a different league to the NAP500 even with DR, but you still get the passive effect I don’t like – a gentle smothering of the dynamics and immediacy of the performance that is portrayed so much better Active. I can’t afford a set of four S1 Monoblocks - love to but can't.

Back to the DR 500: It is difficult to properly describe what I mean by grater ‘clarity’ - I'll try. The reproduced note-structure and power of both voice and instruments is as if they are playing inside your body at times – I’m not meaning playing loud, just more clarity and power in the harmonic structures with less smear.

And the system does go a lot louder with less dynamic ‘cloying’ at the edges – it is clean, clear and fulsome. One thing I like about a good Active system is the removal of dynamic effects of one part of the music treading on another – this is done much better now.

In short – if you are dithering about getting your NAP500 DR updated – get it done, funds permitting.

My thanks to Naim for turning it all around in two weeks and my Dealer, Signals, for making it all happen.

DB.

Posted on: 29 August 2016 by Gavin L

Any views on whether the vintage of the 500 matters, in terms of performance following DR & Servicing.  Ie. Might a 2000 vintage perform as well as a 2010 or the latest pre DR spec model?

Posted on: 30 August 2016 by Happy Listener

Gavin -

I will stand corrected but I think the service (both NAP and PS) and DR work generally updates an old 500 (mine is c.2006) to the spec of a new model. They even changed bits of the grill and the logo - it looked 'new' out of the box to my ageing eyes.

..if the c.2000 unit hasn't been serviced since new, I suspect it will have deteriorated a lot performance-wise.

 

Posted on: 05 October 2016 by Darke Bear

A brief update:

It has been over two months now running-in and a week ago I heard a significant improvement in quality of presentation - just far clearer in every department, bass, mid treble, timing, resolution...

I then took the time to 'tune' my system, as the 500 stacks had been re-built after the return from Naim the same as I had before, but the run-in shenanigans made it impossible to tune it up to peak-performance. I made the small positional changes - mainly to the Snaxo which is frighteningly sensitive to having a sweet-spot on its Fraim, but the other boxes all like to be positioned right. This took about 45mins or so with back and forth until it all sang and was obviously sounding very happy.

Since then I've simply been playing music and hearing further small improvements in clarity. Then today there was a large step improvement and it is clearly into a different league of reproduction from the old non-DR 500 set of amps I know so well and lived with for many years -  this has a measure of dynamic clarity and insight I had not really thought possible.

You can turn up the volume and it goes louder in a different way - it presents a fuller more expansive sound into the room, fully detailed - some call it 'micro-detail' of the dynamic structure of notes as they change in playing I have not heard before. Voice is so intimate that the soft breath of a vocalist as they change from one phrase to the next is so stunningly clear - no fuzzy noise, no murky haze - just there. And all done with an effortless ease with no sense of strain.

It plays quiet for my late listening sessions with remarkable detail and sound-stage preserved - the lower noise-floor seems to give a welcome boost here.

To pick-out bits of music to describe the sense of the whole may miss the the fact it sound so integrated and 'happy' as a whole musically.
But to hear the power and extension of bass chords dig far deeper than before and have in addition the texture and 'grain' of the instrument - even when it is an electronic synth, is a delight to experience. Drum hits within denser recording mixes now emerge with power where they were swamped before. Drums on their own were always easy, but the challenge was to hear it properly breath in the larger mix.
Some live concerts that are not exactly the best are resurrected to compelling listening - an old Pat Benatar live CD that was very noisy and thin before now has the nose resolved into a noise acoustic environment of the gig they played and it suddenly has awesome deep bass from nowhere - perhaps some better very LF phase is done better now. Image and presence info is all improved and you hear the artists move about a stage when it is a simple-miked show in realistic way I'd not noticed before.

That is where I am with this now - noticing so many new musical communications in music I thought I knew quite well, only to hear it anew again.

Very impressed with the 500DR. A big upgrade indeed - but it takes a few weeks to run-in for people like me.

DB.

Posted on: 06 October 2016 by ayisgroovy

Thank you again DB for your interesting insights over past months into the acoustic evolution of your recently upgraded 500s to DR status. 

Having toyed with the idea for many months, I had instructed my dealer today to book me in for the service and DR upgrade on my humble 12yr NAP500! Early Nov is the return to mothership date and that means it will be back for my birthday and Xmas!  In a strange sort of way, I feel relieved (to have dedcided) and now looking forward to embarking on the journey to musical Nirvana.........

Posted on: 07 October 2016 by ken c

sounds like the upgrade has been very worthwhile for you Garry...  The run-in ups and downs should be familiar to you after a few upgrades recently and in any case you are probably over it now...

Bring on the music!

enjoy...

ken

Posted on: 07 October 2016 by Darke Bear

One of the largest upgrades in performance I've made. It takes me time to get past the run-in issues, which have essentially passed now, before I can take-in the full measure of what it has done and still doing.

I heard it in friends Passive systems and therefore expected good things, but was not sure exactly how it would pan-out in Active mode, until now. This DR update to the 500 makes it very special and once a few more Active users get to hear it I think they will be a bit shocked at how much more is on their old favored media.

The extra musical detail and acoustic depth is so smoothly rendered that it is a delight to hear. It is a bigger and more fleshed-out musical experience. I'm hearing so much more that was just not resolved before: things like shakers, little bells, feathering of cymbals and the like that was swamped before by the louder instruments now is exactly positioned in space 'there'. The high-frequencies are so much better rendered - as it you only heard the outline of them before and now you get the full body and harmonics beautifully reproduced - violin benefits - as do the higher parts of female voice.

DB.

 

Posted on: 07 October 2016 by MDS

That your newly run-in 500DRs can dig out this extra detail must also be a testament to your source, DB.  The CD555 doesn't get much attention on here these days.  Nice to know this old-tech source still cuts the mustard.

Mike 

Posted on: 07 October 2016 by Allante93
MDS posted:

That your newly run-in 500DRs can dig out this extra detail must also be a testament to your source, DB.  The CD555 doesn't get much attention on here these days.  Nice to know this old-tech source still cuts the mustard.

Mike 

I feel you Mike, I am an Active Fan, and usually take notes, when major players Make a move. 

Once and a while Members like yourself, and others hit a home run, and explains something in such a way, that it can't be improved on.  Simon, Yourself, and the following Gent, I couldn't  help but to tuck it away! 

And I think, it may be,  one of the reasons why DB, and others have put off making that major transition into Streaming! 

Introducing Uniti, our revolutionary new streaming platform.

ADRIAN_P MEMBER

""A very impressive redesign and re-implementation of the Uniti range. The pictures look great.

I'd hazard a guess that most members of this forum (and certainly most regular contributors) are owners of Classic/Olive/CB separates systems, perhaps with a Uniti/Muso as a second system somewhere in the house, and probably sporting a grey hair or two. That certainly includes me. As far as "reimagining our music collections" is concerned, it isn't "our" collections Naim is referring to here. It's the new market of 40-ish year olds and younger who have grown up with streaming, without "hifi" and lots of boxes, and for whom great industrial design is as important as audio performance. It is this market that is going to power Naim's growth over the next decade. This unified product range launch provides a very sound basis for attacking that market.

While this announcement disappoints many here who were hoping for a Statement streamer, look at it like this -- what we can see here is a new streaming hardware and software platform with better wifi support, memory, buffering, firmware update and display technology that are all things that needed to be updated before focusing on the high-end audio performance that new streamers higher up the range will surely bring. I think we can expect to see all this platform groundwork carried forward into the next generation of higher-end streamers.''

 

Enjoy your System DB! 

BTW, its time to unload the TT, you don't use it! LOL....

Keep up the good work, I love hearing your description of the changes that take place in your System.

Allante93! 

 

 

 

 

Posted on: 07 October 2016 by Darke Bear

To date the 555 is in a little league of its own. It does not seem lacking so far, but I'm not in any way saying it is the best source, just the best that I have heard.

A little story: I keep an ear and eye out for the streaming system that will give me that 'Aha' moment when I hear the 555 comprehensively beaten without reservation. I'm sure it can be done - probably has been - but I've just not heard it yet. Back to the recent demo - while lingering at my Dealer the other day to get a little job done, another customer was there also and the subject roamed onto streaming and all that seems to impact on this. We were demonstrated, using NDS source into Statement Pre and Statement Power Monoblocks driving the new Titans, the difference made by trying two different 'isolation network boxes' feeding the NDS - they radically and fundamentally altered the presentation to the extent the new product being tried sounded dull and lifeless and the existing product my Dealer had used for many months now was clearly superior. Then - on the preferred network 'box' - we streamed the content from a networked Server using two alternative server software types (installed on the same physical NAS storage box) - and one of the two different server software types (from different manufacturers) sounded clearly superior to the other.

We were a little amazed, but the thing I like about my Dealer is he has an open mind and actually tries these things and gets the opinions from visiting customers. There is a view that the Server box is all that matters if the network is otherwise correct. My background in my last job was to design install LAN and WAN business systems for video conference customers and have the relevant certifications to do all that, so it is not that I don't know what I'm doing - but this demo made very clear that when I do again try to see if I can better my simple 555 CD Player, there are many things to be considered - and not just the obvious technical ones.

When I last home-demoed the NDS vs 555 about two years ago the NDS was close to the 555 but not better in terms of clarity and dynamics, although it had an alluring seamless quality I did like, but not enough to make a change, as I wanted it non-nonsense better. Now I'm aware that several significant improvements have come along that will give the NDS a boost and I will at some point try the demo again. I may also try other DAC-Servers but probably prefer Naim's voicing in the context of my system. When I hear it better - then that is it. I'll not part with my 555, as it does its job superbly, but I'm open to adding other sources when they open-up other worthwhile musical windows for me.

DB.

Posted on: 07 October 2016 by tonym

Time you revived that dusty old LP12 DB! Go on, you know you want to...

Posted on: 07 October 2016 by Dustysox
tonym posted:

Time you revived that dusty old LP12 DB! Go on, you know you want to...

Did someone mention me!! I don't need reviving I need to walk into a room and remember why I did!!!! 

Posted on: 07 October 2016 by tonym

I wouldn't dare call you old, Dusty. In fact to me you're a young whipper-snapper! 

Posted on: 08 October 2016 by Dustysox
tonym posted:

I wouldn't dare call you old, Dusty. In fact to me you're a young whipper-snapper! 

Bless ya Tony. Hope that hip has gone all Bionic (see showing my age!), and you are on the road to recovery. You can leave that frame behind and join me in a jig round The Fraim....see what I did......!

Posted on: 08 October 2016 by tonym

Thanks Dusty. Recovering well, but I do have to spend lots more time sitting around, listening to music. Life can be so difficult sometimes...

Posted on: 08 October 2016 by Darke Bear
tonym posted:

Time you revived that dusty old LP12 DB! Go on, you know you want to...

I did borrow a line-stage box from the Dealer and have had the old LP12 playing through the system! I was amazed it still works as I use it so rarely these days - the last time was a few years ago.

The situation is that I may buy something to get it going again to spin some old vinyl that I don't have good CDs for, either as they don't exist or they have ruined the transfer to CD. I do prefer the CD version when the transfer has been done right - it is not even close, but for when it has been messed-up the Vinyl trounces the CD every time.

Paradoxically the qualities I admire from Vinyl, the low-level linearity, are usually thrown-away by many popular line-stages that tend towards wanting to emphasis the things CD does so well, so I will probably choose one that preserves what I like from a good Vinyl source. It will probably happen.

So I aim to have in addition to my CD555 both Vinyl and Streaming at some future date.

DB.

Posted on: 08 October 2016 by MDS

An interesting little story, DB, and another example of the importance of keeping an open mind. For some time I have been expecting that once I had heard a good streaming solution I would, reluctantly, have to contemplate giving up my four-box CD source on the basis that the advances streaming has made would trump my source on performance.  Specifically in the context of my system I thought the NDS, once heard, would trump my nDAC.  Last year, while at my dealer's listening to a very close clone of my (then) system, I had the opportunity to listen to what an NDS would do in my system. The first trial was trying the NDS as a straight replacement for the nDAC being fed by the digital output of a CDX2.2. Much to my surprise I preferred my system. The second trial was using the NDS in streaming mode (from a US, I think). Still I preferred my system.  I left my dealer's still surprised but at the same time rather uplifted at the discovery that the performance of my CD solution more than stood up to Naim's top streamer.  There's life in the old CD dog yet.

I've come to the conclusion that, in practice, there's really not that much difference in the performance of top-notch streaming, vinyl and CD sources, and those there are are about taste and fancy. The far bigger and qualitative differences are to be found in the quality of the recordings.    

Mike

        

Posted on: 08 October 2016 by Jonn

I replaced my CD555 with a new NDS about two months ago and it is significantly better than the CD player. This with 2x 555PSDR into 552 and active DBLs. 

It took around a month to come on song. At first it sounded digital and artificial with a lot of detail but no real connection with the music and a wall of sound with no real soundstage. Over the next few weeks the digital edge disappeared and music sounded more realistic, the soundstage also improved so it is now possible to locate instruments individually in the mix. I'm discovering the CD555 was missing quite a bit of detail and is less dynamic compared with the NDS. It does sound different to the CD player but just as musically engaging I'm now finding

The NDS seems particularly sensitive to placement on the Fraim, more so than the CD player and also benefitted from an update to my switch,NAS and the use of Chord C stream Ethernet cable.

Although I was in two minds about making the change as the CD555 is such a good player, I'm happy I did because not only does the NDS sound better but has they added convenience of easy access to albums rather than having to keep 1000 + CDs within reach.

As a footnote I had a Chord Hugo on home demo and compared the NDS to the Linn Klimax streamer before buying the NDS, neither the Chord or the Linn had me as involved in the music, the main criterion.

Posted on: 08 October 2016 by Chris Bell

Streaming is tweaky.  NDS/2x555 power supplies + c-stream and STA ethernet cables as well as linear power supplies on my N-Serve and Synology NAS.  Also, everything needs to be on Fraim. Tweaky.  

Posted on: 08 October 2016 by Happy Listener
MDS posted:

An interesting little story, DB, and another example of the importance of keeping an open mind. For some time I have been expecting that once I had heard a good streaming solution I would, reluctantly, have to contemplate giving up my four-box CD source on the basis that the advances streaming has made would trump my source on performance.  Specifically in the context of my system I thought the NDS, once heard, would trump my nDAC.  Last year, while at my dealer's listening to a very close clone of my (then) system, I had the opportunity to listen to what an NDS would do in my system. The first trial was trying the NDS as a straight replacement for the nDAC being fed by the digital output of a CDX2.2. Much to my surprise I preferred my system. The second trial was using the NDS in streaming mode (from a US, I think). Still I preferred my system.  I left my dealer's still surprised but at the same time rather uplifted at the discovery that the performance of my CD solution more than stood up to Naim's top streamer.  There's life in the old CD dog yet.

I've come to the conclusion that, in practice, there's really not that much difference in the performance of top-notch streaming, vinyl and CD sources, and those there are are about taste and fancy. The far bigger and qualitative differences are to be found in the quality of the recordings.    

Mike

        

Mike -  the last words are so right. I've recently listened to a high spec LP12 and a 555 playing the same music (across jazz/female vocal/rock). Sometimes the vinyl is far better and then vice versa.  

Posted on: 08 October 2016 by tonym

There is much merit in having two or more sources, and having the choice. Vinyl brings something special to the party, and if, like DB, you've a good collection of LPs, there's much pleasure to be gained by having a good session playing them exclusively.

Despite not intending to, I parted with my 555 when I realised the DAC I had recently bought was better. Maybe I didn't give an NDS a fair enough trial, but that wouldn't have been sufficient for me to ditch the 555.

Posted on: 08 October 2016 by Jonn

 I listened to the NDS a couple of years ago but wasn't that impressed. The latest version with the software update does seem to have made a big difference. I think as well that care with set up, shelf position, cable dressing, server, network etc pays dividends.

For example, I'm listening to Tom Waits Rain Dogs at the moment and the drumming really drives many of the tracks along, something I hadn't noticed with the CD555 which sounded more pedestrian from what I remember.

Posted on: 08 October 2016 by murray harden

Chris- it is tweaky alright but as I'm sure you have discovered everything makes a difference. Have you tried playing from a usb device. I have my music on a 6tb Western Digital drive connected to the Nserv with a Chord Sarum super array usb cable. I had been using super array for the Ethernet connection from NDS and serv to switch but a couple of weeks ago tried the new Music cable on the NDS. It does what it says on the tin. There is no going back. Every thing is fraimed. Heck I have 7 levels of Fraim over two stacks just for my single source

Posted on: 08 October 2016 by Darke Bear

And I thought I was going too far with my 555 atop two Medium Fraim (left above) with the two 555PS in their own stack.

But I did find that the 555 performed so much better when isolated on the double fraim that it had to stay. Also the gap between power supplies makes a very large difference that you have to hear before you will believe it.

DB.

Posted on: 08 October 2016 by murray harden

I did find that going from single rack to double rack made a big difference but fair to say i havent tried seperating things more vertically other than i didnt like empty shelves providing the seperation

Posted on: 08 October 2016 by murray harden