Anyone, Snaxo vs Exakt ?
Posted by: Allante93 on 25 August 2016
Anyone tried this new technology, from what I gather, the theory is based on preserving the digital signal, until it reaches the Exakt Box.
At which point, the digital signal is converted to an analog.
Hence, the major differences between the Snaxo and Exakt Box, would be the digital in signal, as opposed to the analog in signal associated with the Snaxo.
Note, not active speakers with built-in Amp.
But, Active ready speakers, that allows one to bypass the passive crossover with-in the Speaker.
This would allow Forum members, to retain Naim's Electronics, with the likes of the following Speakers.
Active Speakers geared towards the Exakt:
KUDOS, PMC, B&W, KEF, and JBL +
Briks and a host of Linn Speakers.
Active Speakers geared towards the Snaxo:
Briks, and host of Naim Speakers:
IBL, NBL, SBL, SL2, and Ovators.
Curious, just how would that technology integrate into an NDS, with Naim Amps?
NDS/Exakt/3 x 500DR/Kudos Titans
Just some Thoughts!
Allante93!
You would need to connect the NDS to a Linn DSM (Majik, Akurate or Klimax level) with Exakt outputs as pre amp. The DSM digitises the analog input and hands it over to the Exakt box with Exakt inputs. The protocol is not SPDIF but Linns own invention. The Exakt box works as the digital crossover and houses 6-10 DAC channels, depending on the model. Each speaker driver (bass, mid, treble) gets its own DAC channel, ie 6 DAC channels for a pair of 3way speakers. Just like the DSM the Exakt boxes are available in different performance levels (Majik, Akurate, Klimax). The Majik Exakt box also contains power amps, while the other Exakt boxes need external amplification, eg the 3x500.
This only works if the speakers are supported by Exakt, which the Titans are AFAIK. Question is if one would use a NDS as a source if it gets digitised anyway.
jfritzen posted:..........Exakt boxes need external amplification, eg the 3x500.
This only works if the speakers are supported by Exakt, which the Titans are AFAIK. Question is if one would use a NDS as a source if it gets digitised anyway.
Right you are, just get the best digital signal earlier in the game. Why pay for dac, when the signal is being covered by the Exakt.
I think the reference model msrp is 10K GBP
The question is how good is, Linn's Invention!
I haven't heard it, but I'm quite sure it's been demonstrated with the aTitans 808s.
But if this demonstration has taken place, it only makes sence, to display it with Linn Gear.
After all Linn put forth the effort to work with third party Speaker Manufacturers to display it's Exakt technologies.
Thanks Jfritzen, now I realize why a topic associated with Linn's Active technologies, isn't that popular.
As tonym pointed out, speaker availability is a factor, when comparing Active Systems against Passive Systems.
Perhaps Focal is working on something this very moment!
Allante93!
"Linn's invention"? It sounds a bit Iike what what Boothroyd Stuart have been doing for years. In my Meridian Home Theatre system, the DVD player feeds a digital audio stream to the 562 "preamp" (note: the 562 also converts any analogue input(s) to digital). The 562 then sends a digital stream to the 565 "7.1 surround processor". The 565 decodes the Dolby Digital/ DTS data and outputs digital streams to pairs of speakers (front L/R, side L/R, rear L/R, centre/sub). Each 5000 speaker has inbuilt DSPs, XOs, ADCs & power amps.
So the audio stays in the digital domain from DVD to speaker.
I meant the Exakt link and protocol, which is Linn's own development and has extremely low jitter down to 6.3ps.
To use Exakt, you need a Linn Exakt DSM as the source/pre-amp, which includes a network streamer. It wouldn't make much sense to have another streamer plugged into the EDSM.
The EDSM sends a proprietary digital signal to an Exaktbox that does all the digital wizardry (which has some parallels with Meridian but does some other stuff) then does D to A and passes the analogue signal along to whatever set of power amps you choose.
Any normal power amp 9will do, including Naim, but the speakers have to be in the list of Exakt compatible products. Currently this includes Linn, PMC, Kudos, KEF, JBL and B&W.
It is a bit tiresome to read comments about Exakt when they are clearly made by folks who have guessed or assumed what its about. Suggest that its worth reading about and listening before pontification.
Personally I'd really like to hear an Exakt system with Naim power amps into Kudos T808. That combination would, in theory, combine so many strong points and synergies.
For thoughts on this stuff with PMC, do a search on:
Exakt PMC audiophile musings
Suzy Wong posted:"Linn's invention"? It sounds a bit Iike what what Boothroyd Stuart have been doing for years. In my Meridian Home Theatre system, the DVD player feeds a digital audio stream to the 562 "preamp" (note: the 562 also converts any analogue input(s) to digital). The 562 then sends a digital stream to the 565 "7.1 surround processor". The 565 decodes the Dolby Digital/ DTS data and outputs digital streams to pairs of speakers (front L/R, side L/R, rear L/R, centre/sub). Each 5000 speaker has inbuilt DSPs, XOs, ADCs & power amps.
So the audio stays in the digital domain from DVD to speaker.
Yep, Kinda, except we're are talking Linn's 10K digital active crossover, which converts that digital signal, and sends that a analog signal to a tri of 500s, then that same analog signal, generated from the $10K XO, is sent to the $20K Kudos Titans, who XO, has been disabled.
Linn's INVENTION, but a true active System, where the anolog signal is transported from an external XO, to separate amps, to Active ready Speakers.
Perhaps something worthy of comparing to an Passive Statement!
Take a look at that tail end:
Klimax external XO = 10K
3 x 500s = 54K
Titans = 20K
That's 84K GBP, without a digital front end!
Allante93!
sunbeamgls posted:To use Exakt, you need a Linn Exakt DSM as the source/pre-amp, which includes a network streamer. It wouldn't make much sense to have another streamer plugged into the EDSM.
To be precise, not only the Exakt DSMs (ie without analog outputs) offer Exakt links but also the most recent "analog" DSMs. My Akurate DSM has them too, only my speakers are not supported by Exakt so I use the analog output with a Snaxo.
miniDSP have also been doing a digital to analogue programmable multi-way crossover for some time now - in fact believe they've been doing it for longer than Linn have.
Huge posted:miniDSP have also been doing a digital to analogue programmable multi-way crossover for some time now - in fact believe they've been doing it for longer than Linn have.
Huge, if I'm not mistaken, you're an engineer, or very tech savvy.
Question:
Take a look at that tail end:
Klimax external XO = 10K
3 x 500s = 54K
Titans = 20K
That's 84K GBP, without a digital front end!
Is it possible to get some decent ones and zeros, to that rear end, besides Linn?
For comparative reasons.
Not an iPhone, but perhaps a mojo, Hugo, TT, or Dave, squeeze box, etc....
A digital signal, that the $10K Klimax Exakt crossover could convert to analog.
That's the best dacs, Linn could find!
As you can tell, I'm not Tech savvy!
Allante93!
Hi Allente; yes, guilty as charged.
I don't know the quality of the miniDSP DAC, but I'm sure it's not as good as a MOJO (I only use one to drive a sub, so the DAC quality isn't anywhere near so critical as driving the main channel speakers).
A possibility would be to use a miniDSP nanoDIGI 2x8, feed the S/PDif input from a digital source/ preamp such as a Mac Mini with Audirvana and take three of the four S/PDif outputs to three MOJOs, using the analogue out from the MOJOs to feed the poweramps. Note that the Digital Source / Preamp must be capable of controlling the volume in the digital domain.
It may well also be possible to use three Hugo TTs to control the volume by activating them with the same IR signal. However I wouldn't trust this setop to maintain accurate balance between the Bass mid and HF drivers.
Huge posted:Hi Allante; yes, guilty as charged.
I don't know the quality of the miniDSP DAC, but I'm sure it's not as good as a MOJO (I only use one to drive a sub, so the DAC quality isn't anywhere near so critical as driving the main channel speakers).
A possibility would be to use a miniDSP nanoDIGI 2x8, feed the S/PDif input from a digital source/ preamp such as a Mac Mini with Audirvana and take three of the four S/PDif outputs to three MOJOs, using the analogue out from the MOJOs to feed the poweramps. Note that the Digital Source / Preamp must be capable of controlling the volume in the digital domain.
It may well also be possible to use three Hugo TTs to control the volume by activating them with the same IR signal. However I wouldn't trust this setop to maintain accurate balance between the Bass mid and HF drivers.
Well, maybe I got 68% of that, but I think it's a Yes!
But I'm still dumbfoundheaded, I just realized my era.
I bet Linn's Exakt technologies, can only be used with Linn's Exakt digital front end, I think that's what Jfritzen, and Sunbeamgls was trying to point out!
So it's not like one could exchange crossovers, and compare through the same Titans 808!
It would haft to be:
Nds/2 x 555PS/ 552/Snaxo/ 3 x 500s/Briks
Vs
Linn Digital Front/Klimax/ 3 x 500s/Briks
The Speakers would haft to accept both XOs!
I think I got it, hard to compare crossovers!
But Conciousmess, previous post:
Passive Statement vs Active/500s would be plausible.
S1/Snaxo/500s/active Focal/Ovators
Vs
Statement/ passive Focal/Ovators
Ok Focal, get busy, if Linn can reach out to third party Speaker Manufacturers, I'm sure, you can work with Naim.
An entry level active speakers @ 10K, and it's big brother @ 20K, that's all!
Good night, I quit!
Allante93!
Allante93 posted:I bet Linn's Exakt technologies, can only be used with Linn's Exakt digital front end, I think that's what Jfritzen, and Sunbeamgls was trying to point out!
Exaktly!
Although a pure Exakt front end (ie a DSM without DAC and analog outputs, only Exakt outputs) is comparatively inexpensive.
If you see the Exakt DSM and Exakt Box as one unit, then you have a digitizing pre amp with built-in digital crossover and 2xN way analog outputs.
its a pity that dibbles are not supported, else i'd give it a go
jfritzen posted:If you see the Exakt DSM and Exakt Box as one unit, then you have a digitizing pre amp with built-in digital crossover and 2xN way analog outputs.
digitizing pre amp plus streamer of course.
Huge posted:miniDSP have also been doing a digital to analogue programmable multi-way crossover for some time now - in fact believe they've been doing it for longer than Linn have.
Indeed, but that does not mean they are functionally nor quality comparable. Maybe read about what it does?
jon honeyball posted:its a pity that dibbles are not supported, else i'd give it a go
You can request speakers to be added on their forum. The more who ask, the more likely it is to happen.
indeed -- it would be easier to just do the modelling myself, since I have both the test equipment and the speakers. Finding the time, however...
sunbeamgls posted:Huge posted:miniDSP have also been doing a digital to analogue programmable multi-way crossover for some time now - in fact believe they've been doing it for longer than Linn have.
Indeed, but that does not mean they are functionally nor quality comparable. Maybe read about what it does?
Yes I know exactly what it does - I'm an ex computer systems designer. (And read my post about how to implement the system.)
It's functionally comparable to a SNAXO, but operating in the digital domain instead of the analogue domain; and it can also do DRC in a way comparable to (but not the same as) a Linn Exakt system.
It's not compatible with the Linn Exakt system as I believe that uses a private messaging system (either private protocols or private message structures).
jfritzen posted:jfritzen posted:If you see the Exakt DSM and Exakt Box as one unit, then you have a digitizing pre amp with built-in digital crossover and 2xN way analog outputs.
digitizing pre amp plus streamer of course.
Makes since now, Linn's R&D invest in this new technology, that differs from it's former active technology.
The Former technology, which I'm very familiar with, with an analog front end.
Karin/Linn XO/Dirak/280s/Briks
To increase Market share, Linn Collaborates with the Likes of well known, and respected Speaker Manufacturers. ( Kudos, B&W, PMC, Kef, and JBL)
Of course, this new technology fits in nicely with Linn Gear, beit, Separates, or Exakt boxes with powered speakers.
The key word, I guess is digitalized pre amp!
A gentleman who introduced me to Active Linn, 3 decades ago, wasn't all that keen on this new technology.
His argument was based on the dacs, incorporated within the 10K GBP Klimax Exakt crossover.
Theory sounds nice, capture and preserve the digital signal i.e. digital pre amp, then covert digital signal at the tail end, and transmit to active ready speakers.
The burden rest on the incorporated dacs!
Whereas, Naim's Active approach, convert digital signal at the NDS, and keep it analog throughout.
NDS/S1/Snaxo/500s/Speakers?
Snaxo vs Exakt?
The only fair comparison, would be to use the EXAKT same rear end. But what Speakers?
Snaxo/3 x 500s/ Briks
Vs
Exakt/3 x 500s/ Briks
IBL, NBL, SBL, SL2, DBL, OVATORS, KUDOS, PMC, B&W, KEF, and JBL
None of the above, will work with both crossovers!
I hope you hear me Focal/Naim!
Focal/Naim: Pure Analog Active
Allante93!
Kudos to ‘go active’ again at Acoustica Show… this time with Naim!
DDPR | All news, New product launches, Past events | No comment
In 2015, Kudos launched the fruits of our collaboration with industry leaders Linn: our new flagship loudspeaker, the Titan 808, incorporating ground-breaking active Linn Exakt technology.
Wow, the age of information!
sunbeamgls posted:Huge posted:miniDSP have also been doing a digital to analogue programmable multi-way crossover for some time now - in fact believe they've been doing it for longer than Linn have.
Indeed, but that does not mean they are functionally nor quality comparable. Maybe read about what it does?
It would be a hotch potch and likely the quality would not be the same ... but you could combine miniDSP's DDRC-22D which is a DiracLive digital room correction device, with the 4x10HD digital crossover. That would offer you the same functionality (digital room correction and crossover) as the Linn Exakt.
I think the point of the comment (and similar) was that Linn have not *INVENTED* anything new. They are putting together their own version of something others have done before.
"In February at The Bristol Show 2016, we previewed a further exciting development: Kudos ‘Actif Avec’ Devialet. It went down a storm.
Now, in March, we’ll be taking things yet another step further. Join us at the Acoustica Show in Chester where we’ll be running our flagship Titan 808s actively with a set of Naim amplifiers!"
Maybe nothing new, but it's happening!
Look I eat, and sleep Naim, all I'm saying let's do Naim Active with Well known Speaker Manufacturers!
Maybe: the purist route!
Nds/Snaxo/500s/Focal-Naim
That's all!
Market share!
Allante93!
Here in Australia is a company called DEQX. They make the signal from the dac, convert to adc, perform corrections and then convert back and send the signal to the power amps. They are used in several speaker brands as inbuilt functions or as a preamp or module. They are very well regarded and really work in improving the sound. The website provides much greater info.
Huge posted:sunbeamgls posted:Huge posted:miniDSP have also been doing a digital to analogue programmable multi-way crossover for some time now - in fact believe they've been doing it for longer than Linn have.
Indeed, but that does not mean they are functionally nor quality comparable. Maybe read about what it does?
Yes I know exactly what it does - I'm an ex computer systems designer. (And read my post about how to implement the system.)
It's functionally comparable to a SNAXO, but operating in the digital domain instead of the analogue domain; and it can also do DRC in a way comparable to (but not the same as) a Linn Exakt system.
It's not compatible with the Linn Exakt system as I believe that uses a private messaging system (either private protocols or private message structures).
Eloise posted:sunbeamgls posted:Huge posted:miniDSP have also been doing a digital to analogue programmable multi-way crossover for some time now - in fact believe they've been doing it for longer than Linn have.
Indeed, but that does not mean they are functionally nor quality comparable. Maybe read about what it does?
It would be a hotch potch and likely the quality would not be the same ... but you could combine miniDSP's DDRC-22D which is a DiracLive digital room correction device, with the 4x10HD digital crossover. That would offer you the same functionality (digital room correction and crossover) as the Linn Exakt.
I think the point of the comment (and similar) was that Linn have not *INVENTED* anything new. They are putting together their own version of something others have done before.
I really suggest thoroughly reading what it does, even if you are an ex computer systems engineer.
[@mention:46760295022432911] ... I *have* read what the Exakt system does. It's a digital input, combination of speaker / room correction and digital crossover (based on everything I've read - and I've read everything publically published as far as I know). So what have I missed?