Ready for my castigation...

Not trying to give you an immediate slapping, however; in the vast majority of cases where I have seen the Naim app misbehave it hasn't been a problem with the app itself. For example, in your case the Naim app hasn't actually been released for Android 7.0/Nougat as Naim are still working out some of the kinks. 

Bear in mind that Naim are a small company - it's not that they're being slack, more that they don't have the same resources as some of the bigger companies.

It's not blasphemy, and it's frustrating when things don't work as you expect. 

UPNP/DLNA software is tricky, relying on a lot of underlying protocols. Naim is not responsible for the entire stack, so the testing is particularly challenging.

Added to that, Android is, in the nicest possible way, a mess. I still prefer it to IOS and have an Android phone and tablet, but Android is far less tightly controlled in terms of releases than, say, IOS or Windows. Plus, you have the variations in implementation from OEM to OEM, which can also mess things up (although if you have 7 now I presume you're on a Nexus).

And finally, although Nougat is a relatively minor release in terms of UI, there may be more changes going on under the skin. Typically, in the weeks after a new Android release, a lot of apps roll out new versions to iron out new bugs (and this in itself is a pain as they also have to ensure backward compatibility). 

You have to give Naim a break here - they're a small company trying to do something difficult.

If. once all the above has settled down, you're still having problems, there's something else wrong in your network.

Granted - but they are a lot bigger than the little one-man show freebie app for the SBT...and indeed as I detailed the issues exist prior to my now lamented upgrade. (Note to self - don't upgrade again until you have to...looked into rolling back but a cursory examination seems to indicate it is more time and work than I would be willing or able to give. )

I work for a company that puts out crummy software that is very platform & browser sensitive - you should see all the nonsense we have to do in QA just to accommodate what is essentially poorly written code. I partly blame Google as well, but the fact that the app just crashes as soon as it (finally) sees the device means that it is not robust code. This would be a  Sev 1 issue, even in my company's excuse making, refuse to do things correctly, too many hot fixes environment.

Worrying that you had the issue before the Nougat upgrade. That could be the app, but lots of people found the latest version of the app to be relatively stable. It suggests maybe something else is the cause on your network - do you have a wired connection to the NAS, and do you use a switch?

It always just about did the job for me without being anything special, however, when I moved across to Audirvana +, which is essentially a one man show, I was very surprised at how quickly that developed and how well it worked in comparison to the Naim app.  Perhaps unfair to compare but that was how I felt.  To be fair though at least Naiim have an Android app as many don't.

i am using naim app with both iOS and android, iOS one works very good android one many many problems.....  there is a huge performance gap between them, finding my 272, changing track etc it all slow with Android, lots of crashes as well. 

I am using the iOs (ipad mini2) and Android (Nexus5) versions both. And IMHO they do work nearly similar fine. If one has problems in finding my uniti or a renderer, then the other has the problem, too. This is more likely a network (IGMP) issue than a naim app problem. BubbleUPnP does have the same problem in these moments, too.

The Naim App works fine with all four streamers and two servers on my network in iDevices and (albeit differently in parts) Android. It is possible but not certain that your network is sub optimally configured. Past that I agree that the Naim App is a bit pants. Style over substance. Operationally bitty inconsistent and underdeveloped. nStream just needed some good graphics on the front of it. The focus seems to have been on adding inputs. Perhaps basic user functionality will get its turn in due course? It reminds me a bit of Adobe. Developed by techies for techies . A big hit in the Nerdsphere but facing in the wrong direction.

I use both,  but due to screen size I tend to reach for the iPad rather than the Samsung phone so its maybe because I use iPad 90% of the time that I have not detected a problem with Android.

Next step will be, "Ready for my castration."  Let's hope it's sorted before then.

Not blasphemy, and obviously you have a problem.

However, the Naim app works more or less flawlessly for me on my iPad Air for both my Naim ND5XS and Muso Qb Streamers.

In fact, my only problem is that now I am in the process of replacing my Naim ND5XS streamer with a Sonore microRendu, I am forced to move from the Naim app to Lumin in order to have access to Tidal using my iPad. Now, in my opinion, the Naim app is much better than the Lumin.      

G McMurtry posted:

Bear in mind that Naim are a small company - it's not that they're being slack, more that they don't have the same resources as some of the bigger companies.

No longer a valid excuse, given the combined size of both Naim and Focal, IMHO–but device discovery can be a can of worms, to be fair.

The SLIMP3ClientProtocol is pretty clever, compared to traditional UPnP device discovery implementations - as is Sonos' proprietary protocol.

I've found the most recent android release to be far more stable than the previous version, which I'd agree was shite, at least for me on my LG G3.

That said, it's the poor cousin of the iOS app, with no Rovi, and as far as I can see no balance control (I emailed Naim about the disappearance of the latter in the most recent version soon after release). There wasn't even a sticky thread on the forum about it being released like there is for iOS versions. And as far as I'm aware neither version of the Naim app has little touches which might be expected such as an option to use hardware volume buttons on the phone/tablet, lock screen artwork etc. Other apps do, so it's not a device/os capability issue.

'Android is harder' works as an excuse for the first release or two, but since the likes of bubbleupnp can apparently do a better job, the excuse fails to convince any more.

That said, it remains that the most recent android release is much better than previous releases. I'd expect better, given the cost of the black boxes, but for me at least it's largely useable now.

I too find the Naim streaming app very cumbersome and awkward to use. To me it seems over complicated and I need to do a lot of screen tapping to sort things out. Luckily I only have to use this for the Muso and much prefer the Nserve app for the unitiserve ssd. 

At the moment I don't see any point in acquiring a Naim streamer as to me although they sound reasonably good, they seem to be so out of date, awkward to update and difficult to use with the app.

Tim

Pre OS upgrade, the typical sequence in wanting to listen was pick up phone & start the Naim app; nothing found. Click the "center" button on the Naim remote (which I will say is the nicest and most solid they've ever put out - just wish it were back-lit, but it feels like a nice piece of gear in the hand) - let the 272 find the Network, then hit the center button again, sometimes go to iradio and back to UPnP just to get it "awake". Then the Naim app would find it. Annoying, but Sev 3 level issue.

Post OS upgrade it crashes as soon as it comes close to finding the 272. Sev 1 all the way...app is currently unusable.

I can agree my network isn't the greatest because I have to use AT&T's crap proprietary router (no way around this - I have tried, believe me I have tried) but the damning part is the near flawless operation of "Squeezer" to run my SBT off the same network and same server (VB).

I could have lived with the pre-upgrade scenario (and did, which is why I never b*tched about it here), but now I am SOL until they make it work with Nougat/7.0 - and given what I have seen on here, that may take some time. A roll-back seems to much a PITA and means wiping out everything and starting over - and I don't care to participate in the cloud for phone backup until the day that it becomes impossible to avoid.

Here are some Steps to Reproduce, in case anyone from Naim in the software department sees this and gives a crud:

1) Start Naim app - no rooms found.

2) Press Naim remote center button - 272 reads No Network (these first 2 steps have been like this since the beginning)

3) Press it again - 272 takes about 15-30 seconds and finds network, then the music list appears on the 272 wherever it last left off when played previously.

4) Naim app shows the 272 with the "Try Again" popup

5) Press on the 272 "room" image  as before the OS upgrade; app crashes immediately and the OS announces that "naim has stopped" - if I open app again it crashes immediately and cannot be started until the 272 "loses" the network.

6) User swears and/or acts disgusted that a $300 device operates better & more reliably than a many thousand dollar device.

Mark, although I don't have a 272, I doubt it is that that is causing the issue. I simply don't experience your issues fortunately with my NDX and Naim app... The streamer and servers always  instantly appear (typically less than .5 of a sec I'd say)  unless the NDX is switched off or two instances of the Naim app are running. I use iOS. True I configured my network to achieve this, but even before I did this servers woul typically appear over a max of 2 to 3 seconds. But I never had the Naim app crashing on me.

I guess contacting Naim should be your best move, as almost certainly they would want to learn more about your issues so as to resolve them.

Simon

Two iPads, three streamers (two of which are wireless), one NAS (USB backup is rarely physically connected and sits in a safe 99% of the time). French router, no 'switch'.

No problems. So why reply?

I wonder if your mains might be polluted with RFI? Sometimes when we use our microwave the streamer nearest the microwave will 'vanish'. It may require app kill or rarely a power down of the Uniti device. Maybe something is affecting your streamer like that, they seem to be very susceptible to mains borne 'energies'.

DrMark - do you have a network switch between the streamer,  NAS and router? 

If the answer is 'no' then I strongly suggest you buy one and install it - in my experience it makes a huge difference to smooth operation and discovery for a few dollars. A cheap Netgear one is fine. 

That sounds like a poorly network. 

Definitely a poorly network,  +1 for an unmanaged switch & it might turn out to be the router with multicast/IGMP snooping issues (& a switch could/might solve that one) 

Mark - casually reading up it does appear Android and multicast discovery addresses are proving troublesome for developers currently. Defintely recommend contacting Naim support. I suspect with what you have said it sounds more an app/OS issue than a network issue - especially given apparently your other devices are working reliably on your network and your Naim app is actually crashing. 

As I indicated, my router is a proprietary item (and an overpriced piece of crap that I pay $7 a month for and cannot buy outright nor substitute...another thinly disguised AT&T customer ripoff) that cannot be replaced...but it is ONLY the Naim stuff that is giving me issues.

I will consider buying a switch, but before I start throwing money at a problem without knowing what it will do, can someone explain how this will assist? I fail to see how a switch would keep the Naim app from crashing on my phone, but I am open to explanation.

The internet comes in from outside to the router. Additionally a desktop PC and the VB are hard wired to the router, and a laptop is wirelessly connected. Then there is the SBT and  the 272. (wireless on both those of course.) That's pretty much the whole network...there is another laptop that is usually not on that also connects wirelessly.

Everything save the Naim works every time. SBT included, and it is using the same VB box as a source. SBT is using LMS, 272 uses DLNA but also sees the LMS. (I can play off either with the 272.)

I will call Naim today in the UK and see what they say, and report back here later. Thanks to all for the info and suggestions.

Hi DrMark -

Not an Android guy, but have had my share of discovery issues that always affect Naim gear first and worst. Latest bizarre horror show happened a court le of weeks ago when I updated firmware on an Asus rt-n66u router used as a wifi bridge to living room where Mac mini and SuperUniti live and are Ethernet wired to its switch. No way to establish a wifi connection to the bridge; semi bizarre but others say similar so blame firmware. But also no way for SU to connect to the network through bridge although MM was happy enough. Managed to find enough patience for the firmware roll back and am happy again. Fragile is the best word to describe the Naim networking protocol, so I agree that any slight issues show up on the most expensive gear first and this is frustrating to many - even though it is most often true that there really is an underlying network weakness, other stuff is just more resilient. Story for commiseration, not advice ..

Question: Does the IR remote function flawlessly for selecting various network sources during all of this? I mean UPnP from local storage somewhere, Internet Radio at various streaming quality levels, Tidal and Spotify if you have them. One old story I tell here probably too often is that my original UnitiQute behaved progressively worse on network then affected IR remote also (ie couldn't use Center button even to re-scan). A firmware re-install to establish a known good internal state helped quite a bit, and the next firmware upgrade seemed to improve the stack even further. I'm not sure, but I think a router firmware push from my ISP was the trigger point. Anyway, something to try at least. Next step after is to put an Apple Airport Express in as your wifi bridge - most robust home network appliance for discovery and biting bullet on $100 is forgotten when your music experience stops being a network headache.

Regards alan

ps - our posts crossed... I don't think a switch will help since you are going wireless to the router so its built in switch will always be in your path. If you can try stringing a long Ethernet across the floor to test, it might be useful, but not necessarily point you in a direction you can follow. If you want to eliminate the ATT switch, you need a separate switch where you hang everything plus a wifi access point. A separate wifi bridge is what I'd try first; use any old router that supports this mode (many do) or buy an Apple or T-link and see how you go; return it if it's not helpful. Good luck!

Regards alan