Ready for my castigation...

Oh wireless !!!  now thats different.   Try a test ethernet as Alan suggested.     And whatever wireless does with other stuff,  it really is not enabling the 272 to get the best possible out of it & it struggles with high def files.     BUT  all thats as nothing without a reliable network  ..............  let us know how the naim talk goes,  you might also send an e-mail advising of this post before you call them,  gives a heads up & some thinking time.  

I have to agree with the OP. The Android app really needs a lot of work. I'm on 6.0 with my Samsung S5 and my Samsung tablet. In my case the app doesn't crash but even though it looks polished, the functionality is far behind the Logitech app I was using with my SBT. I'm even using LMS as a UPNP server with the Naim app and now I can't play vinyl rips in wav/aiff from friends that used to play fine with LMS feeding the SBT.

Just for comparison, I'm trying the iOS app on an iPad but even then, the app just doesn't seem as robust as the Logitech one.

I hope it can be improved. I'll write more later, need to head to work now.

Arun

Dr. Mark - you can nest a wireless router within your existing network, if in fact you are bound to your ISP's customer premises router. Or, you can ditch your ISP-provided router, which is almost always a better bet (unless you have voice, security, or other ISP-managed services).

Just in case anyone has missed this, it's official; the current App is not Android 7.0 "Nougat" friendly. Naim are working on it..

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...gat-and-the-naim-app

DavidDever posted:

Dr. Mark - you can nest a wireless router within your existing network, if in fact you are bound to your ISP's customer premises router. Or, you can ditch your ISP-provided router, which is almost always a better bet (unless you have voice, security, or other ISP-managed services).

DrMark, I also had issues when my internet provider switchd to VDSL - I simply could not connect via the Naim app to my NDX using the WiFi created by the "standard" modem router (there were no issues with the previous ADSL set up). Following some advice on this forum (I think it was SiS's) on a different topic I restricted the standard device to "modem" only duties and got me a pair of Airport Express (one acts as wireless router and the second as extender so as to avoid powerlines). Have zero issues since then. Have two iOS devices and one android at home.

DavidDever posted:

Dr. Mark - you can nest a wireless router within your existing network, if in fact you are bound to your ISP's customer premises router. Or, you can ditch your ISP-provided router, which is almost always a better bet (unless you have voice, security, or other ISP-managed services).

It seems that in the States (where Dr. Mark is located) all of the major ISP's make it very difficult - if not impossible - to not use their cable modem.  Yes you can turn off the routing features, but I have not experienced any benefit to that.  But turning off the wifi, and substituting an Apple Airport Express to handle wifi, has yielded great benefits!

(At one point I used the Airport Express as a router too, having disabled the router in the ISP modem/router, but again, to no benefit.)

A decent thing to try is probably to turn the router's WiFi off, and run a cable from a port on the router to an unmanaged switch (they're only cheap). Then treat that switch as the start of the network (including connecting any WiFi-providing equipment to it, rather than to the AT&T device).

The AT&T equipment thereby has one Ethernet cable connected to it, and thus connects the rest of the network to the internet. Nothing else. That way there's less that it can screw up.

It won't help the Nougat crashing issue, but it might help with some of the other problems.

Thanks for all the advice - that is quite a bit to digest; networking equipment & protocols makes computer setup seem easy to me.

When I called Naim they knew immediately when I said I was having trouble with the app that I must be a Android 7.0 Nougat person, and as Richard indicated, they are working on it - no telling how long it will take to get something out on that - hopefully pretty soon.

I may be moving (and moving quite far I might add), so assuming I can get the app working I can "limp" (or semi-limp) along as before, I may hold off until I see where I land - a question on that for a different thread actually.

To answer the one question, the Naim remote works fine - just a little dicey to get to the tune you want with over 17,000, plus I have to be pretty close to the 272 in order to read the screen. When I say "fine", that is in the context of the fact that when the 272 is fallow for a period, it loses the network, but can usually find it in about a minute or so through the means I outlined above. It's almost like the firmware "forgets" what it's supposed ot be doing and needs a reminder.

DrMark, one other thought of course is get a used iPad so as to use the iOS app for music duties. That does work... yes I know it's an extreme workaround and more expense, but may be more fruitful in the shorter term?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

DrMark, one other thought of course is get a used iPad so as to use the iOS app for music duties. That does work... yes I know it's an extreme workaround and more expense, but may be more fruitful in the shorter term?

A good suggestion by Simon as this is the route I took even though I have an iPhone I do find it a bit a small and fiddly to use all the time the ios app works fine on a decent used iPad it can be had for about 100 pounds roughly the same price as a Naim remote.

"Why do you insist on using that over-priced, over-hyped, too expensive Apple rubbish"?

Question posed to me many times over the last 10 years by friends who insist their Android and Microsoft devices liberate them from the Apple tyranny they believe is taking over the world!

This thread gives just one of the many answers!!

Seriously, instead of bemoaning the fact that product X doesn't work, why not just buy product Y that does and enjoy your life?!

DrMark posted:

When I say "fine", that is in the context of the fact that when the 272 is fallow for a period, it loses the network, but can usually find it in about a minute or so through the means I outlined above. 

To me... this indicates that you have network problem (as well as the issues of the naim app not working on Android 7.0).

I agree with Eloise that there is an issue with your wifi network: it shouldn't drop once found. That the remote IR works is a good sign (although it's not great to seek within such a large library). 

As I said earlier, the wifi on your ATT router could be an issue, and it might not offer any user level control to change settings. One option is to add a better wifi access point (a "source" approach). Another is to add a wifi bridge, into which you would connect the 272 via a short Ethernet cable (a "destination" approach). 

Personally, I've found the "destination " approach to be quite robust. I use an Apple Airport Express upstairs in my house with a UnitiQute; it's fine and gives me extra source connectivity via AirPlay. I use a spare Asus router in the living room with a SuperUniti; it's also fine and gives me extra Ethernet ports which I use for connecting a Mac mini and sometimes other boxes.  I have had issues with the Asus firmware; I have had no issues with the Airport Express.

My recommendation is to try a temporary wired connection to see if the network drop outs are resolved when you remove the 272 wireless function from the equation. If so, replace the long cable snaking across your floor and up or down the stairwells with your choice of wireless bridge. If not, you have other issues and, as a first measure before seeking service or testing with a separate "internal" network using a better router than the one supplied by AT&T, you could try re-installing the latest firmware release, taking care to perform all of the recommended factory reset steps to ensure the 272 is in a known-good state. 

I have no experience with Android, but it sounds like you're not alone on that front and Naim are working on a fix already.

Best wishes for more enjoyment and less frustration soon!

Regards alan

Alan, does that Asus router connect by wifi to the Airport Extreme?  If so, I'd definitely replace it with another Airport. Airport-to-airport wifi is pretty robust.

I too think that this is a network issue. I use an Asus Nexus Android tablet.  I have no issues with app stability or network drops. I have a hardwired ND5XS, with WiFi from a netgear access point. My network is switched with one switch in front of my router, where my NAS running Asset is located. An interswitch link runs  to another switch behind my rack. This  connects to the ND5XS as well as the access point. My only gripe with the app is how easy it is overwrite an existing queue when browsing. 

Bart posted:

Alan, does that Asus router connect by wifi to the Airport Extreme?  If so, I'd definitely replace it with another Airport. Airport-to-airport wifi is pretty robust.

Hi Bart -

The Airport Express (UQ, top floor bedroom) and the Asus router in bridge mode (SU, ground floor living room) both connect to an Asus router in access point mode (basement office), which is in turn wired to the ISP-supplied modem/router (inconveniently located at the extreme opposite end of the house, in the basement, beneath thick marble floor tiles).

Mostly I've been problem free since moving house and launching this solution a year ago, but (as described recently in this thread or another) I ran into serious issues a couple of weeks ago when I (foolishly!) upgraded both routers to the latest firmware release provided by Asus. Turned out to be a known but unfixed problem with the bridge mode functionality, so I used the "recovery mode" feature to re-flash the previous firmware and am back in business.

Your point is well made though: connecting the Express to the Asus router used as a bridge is also possible since that mode also provides a wifi extender function (with corresponding speed drop for half duplex). This is definitely not as stable as connecting to the Asus router in Access Point mode (which is one floor further downstairs). Ive also noticed that it is better to connect the control point device (usually an iPad or iPhone) to the Access Point instead of the Extender - probably I'm creating some bad network topology or some such thing, but I usually feel like some stuff (eg multicast discovery signals) just isn't happy passing through two layers of wifi. So I take the path of least resistance. 

All of that said, I agree that the Apple family of products work well in a home context, especially with each other. I read somewhere that intra-brand bridge and / or extender functions are generally more reliable than cross-brand. Not sure if this is true, or even if it's true only when different wifi chips are involved irrespective of brand, but there are most definitely "unusual" things that can happen as you exercise the home wifi network more vigorously and when something goes amiss (like a Naim losing contact) even though "everything else is fine", I feel like it's more a case of a first point of failure than a blanket "my network is fine, the problem must be elsewhere".

I've become pragmatic and since adding the bridges to allow the Naim UQ and US to connect via Ethernet instead of their own wifi, I've had little or no frustration...including solid experience with the many Naim firmware installations that are done as a member of the beta test team.

Thanks for posting your thoughts and for reading this long rambling response! Take care. 

Regards alan

SB posted:

My only gripe with the app is how easy it is overwrite an existing queue when browsing. 

Did you already enable the menu that in the default settings only shows up on the three dots to occur when touching a track? If not, the playlist is erased when touching a track. I recommend to enable the menu.

alan33 posted:

Bart posted:

Alan, does that Asus router connect by wifi to the Airport Extreme?  If so, I'd definitely replace it with another Airport. Airport-to-airport wifi is pretty robust.

Hi Bart -

The Airport Express (UQ, top floor bedroom) and the Asus router in bridge mode (SU, ground floor living room) both connect to an Asus router in access point mode (basement office), which is in turn wired to the ISP-supplied modem/router (inconveniently located at the extreme opposite end of the house, in the basement, beneath thick marble floor tiles).

Mostly I've been problem free since moving house and launching this solution a year ago, but (as described recently in this thread or another) I ran into serious issues a couple of weeks ago when I (foolishly!) upgraded both routers to the latest firmware release provided by Asus. Turned out to be a known but unfixed problem with the bridge mode functionality, so I used the "recovery mode" feature to re-flash the previous firmware and am back in business.

Your point is well made though: connecting the Express to the Asus router used as a bridge is also possible since that mode also provides a wifi extender function (with corresponding speed drop for half duplex). This is definitely not as stable as connecting to the Asus router in Access Point mode (which is one floor further downstairs). Ive also noticed that it is better to connect the control point device (usually an iPad or iPhone) to the Access Point instead of the Extender - probably I'm creating some bad network topology or some such thing, but I usually feel like some stuff (eg multicast discovery signals) just isn't happy passing through two layers of wifi. So I take the path of least resistance. 

All of that said, I agree that the Apple family of products work well in a home context, especially with each other. I read somewhere that intra-brand bridge and / or extender functions are generally more reliable than cross-brand. Not sure if this is true, or even if it's true only when different wifi chips are involved irrespective of brand, but there are most definitely "unusual" things that can happen as you exercise the home wifi network more vigorously and when something goes amiss (like a Naim losing contact) even though "everything else is fine", I feel like it's more a case of a first point of failure than a blanket "my network is fine, the problem must be elsewhere".

I've become pragmatic and since adding the bridges to allow the Naim UQ and US to connect via Ethernet instead of their own wifi, I've had little or no frustration...including solid experience with the many Naim firmware installations that are done as a member of the beta test team.

Thanks for posting your thoughts and for reading this long rambling response! Take care. 

Regards alan

If it's working ok for you . . . sure stick with it! If you do decide to change, yes, staying within the Apple brand for wifi extender mode works really really well, and your wireless devices all see the same SSID and can 'roam' among the wifi sources without you ever realizing it.

My 'extender' Airport Extreme was offline for almost 2 weeks and no one noticed! (I had changed my Apple ID but hadn't changed it on that device.)  I guess that's a testament to just how good the Airport Extreme is, as it's tucked up in a corner on the 3rd floor of my home, and apparently was providing sufficient signal for the kids to stream from the Amazon Fire down in our basement! 

gert posted:

SB posted:

My only gripe with the app is how easy it is overwrite an existing queue when browsing. 

Did you already enable the menu that in the default settings only shows up on the three dots to occur when touching a track? If not, the playlist is erased when touching a track. I recommend to enable the menu.

Gert, can you be more specific, I can't find this setting?

Thanks

Maybe someone else can give the exact wordings. I try to translate from the menu in german. In the app settings:

Sonstiges -> Titel-Optionen durch Antippen

Miscellaneous -> Title options by touching

So if you touch on a track's name it is not played instantly by erasing the playlist. Instead the menu pops up, asking what you want to do with this track.

If I remember correctly it's called 'Tap for options'.

Thanks I have now set that, will see how I get on