CD players vs Macs/Dacs

I own hundreds and hundreds of CDs and have never experienced CD clutter. It takes me just seconds to grab one from it's place on the shelf and play an album. Best of all, my music and me are completely independent of any type of "smart"-device for replay enjoyment. If I want new music I can browse, sample and order a CD from my notebook PC for likely less than half the cost of a download. God forbid, I've got to wait three days for it to be delivered. Doesn't seem to work for the 'I want it now' customer.

i am the only person who still wants a CD555, looking at the comperisons it is way out of the VFM equation for sure, why they don't just drop the price a little instead of letting it die, i assume they are protecting the second hand value of it but still.

Who would invest that kind of money to brand new CD555+PS555DR for digital audio when you can get away with far less arguably with also better SQ?

I am using " invest " vs " buy " because it is that kind of money..... for me at least...

but it looks cool on a black fraim for sure far better than space age one eye ugly Chords  

Brubacca posted:

ThatsNotMyNaim posted:

Brubacca posted:

Personally I went down a huge winding road. It is a bit much to relay. But I have tried many combinations including a properly setup mini computer directly into a DAC. I even tried a Qute as a source feeding a proper DAC.  The best it ever sounded was with a USB drive directly into it.  I believed that computer based audio was inherently flawed, that the TCP/IP transport somehow ruined the music.  

I was ready to give up on the whole computer audio idea until I tried the MicroRendu. 

It lives up to the hype, which is why those of us who have tried it are promoting it for no personal gain. 

I I have not tried a Melco or Aries device. 

Do you use a 3rd party PSU with the rendu? 

My initial impressions here on the site were with the iFi supply.  I recently added a TP psu and have yet to quantify the differencex.  A quick impression reminds me of how people describe the different Naim levels.   I really enjoyed ths iFi it was really fun to listen to.  Ths TP is more refined and better, but to my ears a little less "fun" on rock and roll tracks, although it is not yet settled in.

 

This reminds me of how people desribe a Nait 5i/Cd5i vs a xs based systsm.  

Strange how each individual's perception of changes in musical presentation can differ.

I too moved from an iFi to a TP psu for my microRendu, but my immediate and lasting impression of the upgrade was (and is still) that the microRendu/TP combo is in every way  better than that of the microRendu with iFI. I agree that my immediate impression following the change  was one of significantly more refinement and the absence of any 'digital' harshness. This does appear to be acommon attribute of TP power supplies (although for the life of me I don't understand how a psu can have this sort of effect on SQ). However, I am also aware of a significant boost to bass (both in respect of quantity and control), and of more 'space' between instruments. For me, the sound is simply more enjoyable all round, and I have not noticed a reduction in 'fun' on any of my music, so for me the improvement is extremely worthwhile for a relatively small (in the scheme of things) financial outlay.

A couple of additional points.

The microRendu does not come with a power supply, so unless you decide to use Sonore's own  (rather expensive at around $1,500) linear power supply, you will need a 3rd party power supply. The iFi is the cheapest available 'recommended' psu, but I would advise against its use on two grounds. In my opinion you can get a much better level of performance by spending a little more on an sBooster (6v) or TP (7v) psu, but also because the microRendu runs uncomfortably hot for long term use when using the 9v iFi psu.  

joerand posted:

I own hundreds and hundreds of CDs and have never experienced CD clutter. It takes me just seconds to grab one from it's place on the shelf and play an album. Best of all, my music and me are completely independent of any type of "smart"-device for replay enjoyment. If I want new music I can browse, sample and order a CD from my notebook PC for likely less than half the cost of a download. God forbid, I've got to wait three days for it to be delivered. Doesn't seem to work for the 'I want it now' customer.

However, if you have a collection of thousands and thousands (as opposed to hundreds and hundreds) of CDS, then there is no way of avoiding CD clutter. And in particular, if your hi-fi system is located in a living room as opposed to a dedicated listening room, then there really  is no way to keep your music conveniently at arms reach.

Mind you, clutter itself is not a significant factor for me. I moved from CDs to local streaming (and now with the added convenience of Tidal for music discovery), and have never once regretted the move, because a) the best local streaming setups I have heard to me sound better than the best CD players that I have heard, b)  the availability of hi-res files becomes an option (some, but certainly not all of which sound superb) and c) the convenience and sheer pleasure of being able to browse through and easily select from my music collection via my iPad or laptop/PC I something that cannot truly be appreciated until you have tried it.

I certainly couldn't claim that the best streaming options are 'better' than the best CD players since I haven't heard all of them. However, I am willing to bet that the differences will be pretty subtle and prone to one's individual subjective preferences. I have spent a lot more time listening to music since my switch from CDs to local streaming, and I for one would not swap back to CD replay even if the swap could achieve a subjectively slightly better sound quality.   

I particularly like the fact that if I want to listen to - for example - a version of the jazz standard "Autumn Leaves" I can find all the albums I have with that song on them in seconds. Try doing that with a CD collection!

But I am a fan of the Uniserve and the NDS rather than Macs and Dacs.

Since going all streamy computery, I listen to far more music: even more so now my left hip's given up the ghost - no way could I be jumping up to change CDs. Vinyl's unfortunately also off the menu for the time being.

Have to agree Tony, the old iPad access to my ripped CD's means that I'm rediscovering much of my music which was previously overlooked, sitting on the shelves during purely CD days.

As for Tidal, well, I'm "buying" twice as many CD's each month than I ever did before, and can pick up right away on fellow forum members recommendations on the "What are you Listening to" over on the Music Room.

It's all good.

I have a Melco NA-1 and Innuos Zennith coming for demo. Should be fun.

I'll try the MicroRendu out too but ideally want rid of Macs.

Alba1320 posted:

"For me, in my circumstances, computer audio makes no sense/offers no advantage/holds no appeal"

Now, I can just about understand why someone would choose to retain a CD player on the grounds of better sound quality, or perceived better sound quality, but your assertion makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Are you really saying that 'computer audio' (for example a Naim NDS or nDac) "makes no sense" and "offers no advantage". It strikes me that only someone with no extended exposure to local network streaming could make such an assertion.

Of course, CD replay is also 'computer audio". I could understand your argument if you were to make it for your turntable, fm radio or reel-to-reel tape deck.

I have well well over 1000 CDs and probably not far off as many vinyl albums.  From day one I hated the CD case and format, they cluttered the house up, no one looked after them (probably because we were told they would last forever lol) and I would guess that the vast majority of them were never played because they were a pain to fine.  Until I ripped them all and moved to streaming and then computer audio and I now play way way more variety of music than I ever did.  The CDs are in large boxes and the cases are in the loft and, other than ripping something new, I doubt I will ever use a CD again.  Most of my vinyl is also locked away but a good bit of it is back on display because a) they are treasured and looked after by everyone in the house, B) they are fun to read and they sound great.  That said I have albums that I play through my Hugo that sound better than the vinyl and vice verse, I also have some that you would be damned hard pressed to tell apart if I flicked the amp from one to the other.

Use whichever medium works best for you but don't assume that it is better than everything else around because for others it won't be.  Enjoy the music

joerand posted:

I own hundreds and hundreds of CDs and have never experienced CD clutter. It takes me just seconds to grab one from it's place on the shelf and play an album. Best of all, my music and me are completely independent of any type of "smart"-device for replay enjoyment. If I want new music I can browse, sample and order a CD from my notebook PC for likely less than half the cost of a download. God forbid, I've got to wait three days for it to be delivered. Doesn't seem to work for the 'I want it now' customer.

The vast majority of my music still comes from CDs. I buy them just like you do. It's just that instead of taking up space in my living room, they are boxed-up down in the basement. We can play our music from any of 6 different "smart" devices. It really isn't a problem.

I've never quite understood the attachment to the physical medium. It's all about the music to me and getting the best playback possible within my budget. Personally i found it very liberating moving to computer audio as (SQ improvements aside) far more of my collection gets played.

All horses for courses though 

Alba1320 posted:

"It can strike you however you wish, but you seem to have conveniently ignored the 'in my circumstances' bit; so, for your edification, something that I posted a while back on this very forum:"

I didn't really choose to conveniently ignore the 'in your circumstances' bit. I simply chose not to spend time filtering through all of your previous posts to uncover what your personal circumstances are.

However, now that you have kindly explained your circumstances, and the fact that you do not have a computer network', nor a smart phone nor tablet, then your post makes more sense.  Although, since you do post to this forum, I guess you must have access to a computer of some sort, and also that you probably own a broadband router by means of which you connect to the Internet? In my book, this most definitely constitutes a computer network, albeit a fairly simple one.

However, it does strike me (yet again) that my assertion was fairly reasonable and accurate. You may have no extended experience of using a local streaming service, and so you are probably not fully aware of the many advantages such a set-up offers.

Contrary to what you may think. I do not have an evangelical zeal when it comes to promoting the choice between CD replay and local streaming of ripped CDs. I know many people (including my own brothers) who still use CD players, and would not for a minute consider moving to streaming of any sort. Mind you, they would also not consider spending anything remotely like the sort of money almost everyone on this group spends on their hi-fi setup. One of my brothers has a collection of thousands of CDs, thousands of LPs and thousands of recordings made on various recording media from FM radio, and yet he is quite happy to play his music on an extremely modest (i.e cheap) system. Each to his or her own. We all have very different views on what is value for money.   

I sincerely hope that you continue to enjoy your CD system, and that you eventually manage to get the CD player to which you aspire. I have never heard a CD555, but I am sure it would sound wonderful! Just not as much of a pleasure to use as a good local streaming alternative.

And by the way, it would not take very many bits to get you into local streaming, and they would probably also be significantly cheaper than a CD555 as well.

Alba1320 posted:

^ Of course, different people, different circumstances, different likes/dislikes, requirements...

Now, this quote I agree with wholeheartedly.  

Hmack posted:

Alba1320 posted:

^ Of course, different people, different circumstances, different likes/dislikes, requirements...

Now, this quote I agree with wholeheartedly.  

But on the other hand, I don't.

Chaps -  I've got 3 sources of music in my house which I make regular use of:

-  Vinyl a collection of 40 + years. 

-   CD a collection of 25+ years and growing. 

-   FM    Radio 3 mainly

All 3 are well served by excellent source components.  I could see the logic of ripping the CDs to a hard drive but the investment - £ and effort - the end result being perhaps more convenience?

The truth is there is no one way to get your kicks on Route 66. 

Regards,

Lindsay

The Strat (Fender) posted:

 

The truth is there is no one way to get your kicks on Route 66. 

Regards,

Lindsay

Excellent!

Made I larf. 

What have I started!? Ha

I'm really enjoying the Hugo via cheapo optical from a noisy Mac to be fair.

Zennith and CD player coming tomorrow for a run out. Melco next week.

I've also got a Mytek Brooklyn coming. A little bird tells me this is better than the Hugo? It'll be bloody spactacular if so. I'm managing to completely bypass the recording flawes on lots of tracks with the Hugo due to it's most musical nature.

Decided I prefer my XS2 without any caps (of all flavours and brands). Seem to make a mess of it with exception of Flat Cap XS which was nice but also lost the XS2 natural character a little.

Micro Rendu and Hugo are the likely purchases. With the Zennith / Melco being longer term solutions if they suit my ears.

Following up on the CD clutter/convenience issue - I tend to be fastidious with my belongings and I've always filed, kept, and handled CDs in a similar manner to my LPs. Always with clean hands and always back in the case and on the shelf when I'm done listening. No problems moving my CDs between my music room, garage shop, and car. I consider my music to be a physical possession and I'm into the album art, liner notes, credits, etc. I also try to be somewhat minimalistic and will never have CDs and LPs that total in the thousands. Even with the circa 500 CDs and 400 LPs I own I probably can't visit them all in any two-year span, and I have a decent mental inventory of what I own. New music has to be "worthy" for me to buy and I'm not into collecting music of marginal interest to me. This construct works well for me and my lifestyle.

I don't chide those that enjoy "streaming", ripping, downloading, i-pads, smartphones, and the like. It's just not for me and I realize I may be missing out on some potential SQ, but I'm content with where I sit. What does irk me a bit is that some responders seem unable to accept this choice is best for me and a few others. While I feel confident I could set up and implement a network streaming system, that for me would be the real unnecessary clutter in my life, and would hold absolutely no convenience factor as far as I'm concerned.

I don't intend my comments as a tit for tat argument, just hoping folks can appreciate different strokes for different folks. One man's clutter is another man's (physical) music library. I can certainly understand why many choose to stream/rip.

This is a wonderful summary from JOERAND. 
+1 to the above (says a man with 4 streamers in a house).

And +1 from me also.

from someone who is almost, but not quite as big a fan of streamers as Adam. I only have 3.

Has to be said of course that those of us who insist that the wax cylinder remains the ultimate in high-res are just as evangelical!!!!

Just re-counted, and realised I missed out my Muso Qb, and my ND5XS that I have yet to sell now that it has been replaced by a microRendu. So, I actually have 5 streamers for the time being.

I also have a turntable and a 10" reel to reel deck, both of which I adore, but I have yet to find a decent wax cylinder playing device. Now we're talking! I have a new aspirational target.