Is it me? SN2 sound

Try sitting a little further away from the speakers if you can. It worked for me.

Are the NDX/SN2 brand new?

I have NDX & Supernait (1) & its nothing like flat & has more emotion than I can handle sometimes!!!.   But I wonder how can it be flat when you have "excellent dynamics and far better extension of bass and especially treble, and tons of details"    ????     OK to try a few things & some questions:    agree Hafler try to go further away from speaker,  but what is room size & the listening distance anyway ???.      What are you feeding NDX with ???  wired, wireless, NAS, miniMac, web streams or iRadio.   How old are they ? both might benefit with some running time to burn in, if you can leave them running all day semi quietly on iRadio when you're out,   I found my NDX improved a little over time,  but most amps do improve a lot & some might take 4 weeks & even more.  What speaker cable ??  the SN is very forgiving with cable,  but even so some are better than others.

Took a good while for my SN2 to run in/for me to get used to it but once it did run in it had emotion in spades.  If it's new I'd give it a bit (a good bit from memory) to run in and then see how you feel.  The NDX SN2 combination is a well regarded one whcih should work well but everyone is different and we all have different rooms and speakers.

NDX and SN2 take a while to settle down. They also benefit from a good rack / support and good power supply cables.

When i upgraded  from a CD5xs to an NDX I decided to home audition an SN2 to see how it compared to my 152XS/155XS and ordered the SN2 the very next day.  The difference was substantial  - "much punchier, with excellent dynamics and far better extension of bass and especially treble, and tons of details."  Maybe flat is not the right term?  Perhaps there is a degree of refinement when compared to the 112/150?

For what it's worth, I used to own the SN2 (which I sold for financial reasons) and liked it, but didn't love it (although it might've seemed like I did at the time). It sounded very mathematically right, but i thought it was missing something - maybe stuff was too separated, I don't know. 

But I aggree with the others - give it some time to settle in.

Arnaud posted:

 I feel the overall sound is a bit "flat" or, "matter of fact", perhaps lacking a bit of lush or of emotion.

 

I don't know, can you get goosebumps from a system that has no emotion? My source is CD, that also could be the answer for your lack of emotion, flat sounding. Maybe add a CD player to your system.

I also had that same exact system, although that was quite a long time ago, my memories of that system (CD5, FlatCap, 112,150) are not as fond as yours.

Look, the SN2 is not for everybody, personally I would be looking at my choice of speakers, or my source first, before putting the blame on the SN2 not providing the emotion you seek.

Arnaud

Do you still have any part of the original electronics?  I'm thinking of the CD5/FlatCap. It was a very sweet little CD Player and I think that might be at least part of if not most of the problem. A good test would be to switch it back in. The SN2 will break in and sound better but should sound pretty good right from the get go as you noted. The speakers are not the problem either. 

Flat is the last word I would use to describe SN2 sound. If the units are brand new, give them plenty of time to burn in, especially SN2. I bought my SN2 new and first I thought I had made a mistake. Coming from the original SN, SN2 had very hifi-like sound with tons of highs and details but less emotion and fun which are the things I love Naim for. It gave me listening fatigue at first! But the burn in was like a roller coaster, some days good, some days bad and finally when it settled, the sound was smooth and pleasant but still with plenty of details and ability to dig in the recording. Compared to the original SN the sound is more dynamic, punchier, airier and detailed. Now after three years, I think SN2 is the best upgrade I've done. 

My SN2? With or without the HCDR I'd describe it foremost as accurate. Punchy, fast, and dynamic with well-controlled bass. It's not soft or polite - exposing of the source. Very musical. My only negative is that it can seem shouty, maybe too mids-forward at times. Flat? Never!

A flat sound makes me wonder about your racking or cable dressing. Possibly your power strip, outlet, or circuit. Let us know what you've got in those regards.

+1 to the above. SN2 can actually 'handle' sources which are much more expensive (presumably better too ).
I also found it to be happy being paired with all sorts of speakers - it imposes its own version of  a musical playback on them quite easily.

Arnaud,

I think I can try and 'interprete' your feelings – I have had CD5, FC2 and 112/150 once: they are different from most other Naim combos, but have a few special qualities I loved (although the sum of them was not perhaps enough to make me keep the system, or perhaps I just wanted to experiment). I find that the CD5 is an extraordinarily amiable player, with not great punch or dynamics perhaps (not a super-powered CDX2, for example), but with a musicality, a mellow presentation that reminds of the CDS3; it can – I am absolutely sure of this – be everything one needs in terms of CD players if one is not lured by upgrades.

As for the 112/150 combo, it's often blamed here but I remember that the 112, although a little dark sounding, had a way of placing instruments in space, a sort of 'concreteness' (hope its' the proper word) and 3D-ness that other Naim preamps in the mid of the range don't have; all in all, it was a very 'analogue' presentation to my ears, and this could have affected your judgment and experience in a way that the more modern, lucid sound of the NDX/SN2 isn't able to recall. I have mixed feelings about the SN2 - I have owned the SN1 twice, and in spite of a few 'shortcomings' I loved it; but the 2, on direct audition, proved to be 'better'. You now have a more modern sound it may take a little to get used to, but in time the greater quality of it should become obvious – unless you really miss that older, gentler attitude: in which case, no one will prevent you from reverting back to it. I have changed a number of times, it helped me to understand what really counts, what I really liked and where I agreed to place myself in the Naim hierarchy money-wise too.

Best wishes for a happy time with your new gear.

M

The SN2 can sound incredibly engaging, punchy, fast, or boring, laboured and dull. It is a very transparent amp, be that good or bad. I personally think it needs at least a CDX2 or NDX/XPS to make sense, and much lesser sources are better served with the lovely sounding, albeit less resolving NaitXS/Si or simiar. In the OP's case i'd say you are hearing more of the NDX than before!

I tend to agree, source is (as usual) very important, however the SN1 was just about the worst intg Naim amplifier I have owned, and I have owned most

I recognize "Flat sounding" more than lack of emotion

Some defend it saying its not yet burned-in properly, it should be by now with years of burn-in  - if your SN2 not perform to your expectation after a  couple of days, don't look for major changes from other side than your own ears

I'm not a believer in "month's of burn-in" or "mega expensive" cables to solve generel audio issues

Thank you all for your replies. I'll try to answer:

Are the NDX/SN2 brand new?: I bought them in june, but had little time to play them: I'd say around 150/200 hours now

Mike-B: my room is about 30 m2, and listening distance about 5 meters. NDX fed by Qnap NAS. Chord Epic Twin cable.

Adam: Naim Fraim but no power supply cables.

Clay: I still have the CD5/FC2: I'll try with them.

Badlands / Gary: Ah! another better source! why not? (XPS on NDX or on a future CDX2?)

Massimo: I think you've spotted the right point: although regretting its relative darkness, I quite liked the rather "analogue" sound of the 112/150, and the mellow of the CD5. But I also like the punch and clarity of my new combo...Perhaps need I to get accustomed emotion wise to a more direct sound...

Arnaud posted:

Mike-B: my room is about 30 m2, and listening distance about 5 meters. NDX fed by Qnap NAS. Chord Epic Twin cable.

OK nothing wrong with that,  very similar to me except my listening distance is less as I fire the speakers across the shorter room dimension.   I hope the NAS is wired (how is the network set up?).     Chord Epic is the same as my Odyssey except the Epic is screened.  Its OK for Naim amps as it has middle of the road inductance & capacitance - my Odyssey measured with my Fluke meters was 0.6uH/m & 63pF/m - to be a purist it would need to be 5 or 6m per side to achieve the Naim recommended minimum = to 3.5m NACA5,  but as I said before, I am led to believe the SN2 (& SN-1) are very forgiving of speaker cables.

I would follow Max suggestions for a while, a lot of wise words, slow down & take your time,  more burn in time & more time for you & your Mk-II audio receptors to get used to the new sound,  & also get some quality 24-bit downloads to replace your favourite CD rips,  then after a few more weeks have a reappraisal

I ran my SN2 on Odyssey with lengths of 3.5 meters for a while with no problems.  Mind you moving to TQ Black was a big step up to my ears

When you installed the new components, did you readjust the speaker positions for the new system? This is usually required, since it's effectively a new system...

As for Epic Twin, well...not for me, even though it is a very good cable.

Frank.

I was at a listening session at a friend of mine yesterday evening. He has a cambridge audio based system which is very nice. First we were listening to Spotify via Sonos. Everything was in the music, detail, base etc... But the music was 2D. I could not find the problem by just listening. It was like happing on the wall in front of us.

Then we switched to CD (having good dac). Suddenly, but music came off the wall and it was alive in the room. I could not put my finger on the problem, but it was a huge difference. 3D.

@Arnaud, is this what you mean by "flat" or, "matter of fact"?

A

[@mention:1566878603872156] actually, no, I didn't change my speaker's placement: I'll try that later on, but the disposal of my room doesn't allow too much variations...As for the cables, apart from Naca5 (which really never did it for me), do you have any suggestions?

[@mention:55771800629066628] I wasn't talking about 3D soundstage, but really about the fact of not being accustomed yet to the new probably more accurate sound the NDX/SN2 delivers, as opposed to the more mellow (?) sugar-coated (?) sensual (?) sound produced by the CD5/FC2/112/150 system.

Arnaud, 

Naca5 is my preference by far. In my opinion most other cables make the system sound lifeless. So I can't recommend anything. Cue cries of Chord, Tellurium Q, atlas, flashback, witch hat, etc., none of which hold a candle to NACA5 in my view.

Frank.

Hum...well...I just realize that I was playing my files through the NDX in FLAC.

I've activated the conversion to WAV about half an hour ago, and things seem to be now much more as I expected them to be...

I'm listening and listening with great pleasure.

I'll keep you posted on my findings after a few days...

I knew it wasn't the SN2.

So apparently it was a source based matter. I did not know that the differenct between Flac and Waw is that big. Did not expect it.