Shahinian shenanigans

You are correct in that Shahinians are wide bandwidth with a small footprint.

Compasses are relatively easy to drive and will match most systems. They're not quite as full range as the larger speakers, but they have a very small footprint.

Arcs are a favourite. Although small, they can require some space around them in some rooms because they go so deep in the bass region. This is a function of the room more than anything, because of room resonant modes. They also need a fairly powerful amp behind them, think SuperUniti, SuperNait2 and above. So your Karan should be plenty powerful enough.

Obelisks need a little more power again, you really want a NAP250-based amplifier or better. Again the Karan should have no problem in sheer power. However, Obelisks are more revealing than Arcs, so provided the Karan's preamp stage is open enough, then they'll sing. Obelisks are more omni-directional than Arcs or Compasses in that they have rear-facing drive units as well as front facing, and so they can be a bit more fickle about rooms. They come on castors which aids placement and means you can always wheel them into place for best listening and then push them back near a wall for background/out of the way listening. They have a bigger sound than the Arcs (which already have a big sound). 

The omni-directional presentation is interesting in that it doesn't present a pin-sharp soundstage but it does make for a very believable one. It also throws the image higher than you get with most direct radiating speakers. The speakers are usually infectiously engaging too. To a certain extent Naim's older *BL speakers had an element of this presentation, probably because the speakers radiate at an angle.

Frank.

Toby

They are great speakers. Dick Shahinian is a classical music recording encyclopedia. He knows who did what for what label and is a font of knowledge on the various interpretations. I and others used to visit his room at CES just to relax and listen to music. 

I haven't heard the Arc's or Compass but I have his Obelisk1's sold to me by his son Vasken who now runs the firm. The 2's are supposed to be a significant  improvement over mine and easier to drive. Mine have a deep, tight, and colorfully spacious natural sound. Bass reproduction is superb, amongst the most naturally solid I've heard. They don't do the pinpoint imaging thing like some others but they do sound like real music being played in a real physical space. They are not analytical, they are lovely. I have used them successfully on all types of music. They are beautifully made from Finnish Birch Ply and have excellent veneers. The Obelisks, at least, come with castors which makes them easy to move around. Highly recommended and Vasken and his Dad are honest no BS lovers of music and make a living off something they love.

Looked up your amp and you should have no problem driving Shahinians. I normally use a Dynavector HX-100 but have used my little Nait 5i at low volumes and it sounded much better than it had any right doing.

Downside: Cost in Europe. But they are keepers. 

I have currently got 3 sets of Shahinians ! - Larcs, Arcs and Compass 

Larcs on a Uniti mk 1 which is in the living room - these are the tiny recent addition to the Shahinian family and deliver an amazing sound for their size. Some of their characteristics  - such as size, angled upward firing speakers are mirrored by the new Iota Alphas  from Neat - although I haven't heard them. (there are rave reviews all over the UK HI Fi magazines at present). The Larcs are voiced quite warmly so are a pleasant listen and are an unobtrusive way of delivering good sound.

The Arcs are mark 1's and must be 15 years old - and I was using them on my main system- NAC272/XP5XS/NAP250DR - and they were great for most music - however I found that the some vocals were a little harsh - eg Van Morrrison and Plant in Zep days - ( the tweeters are metal)- so I swapped them to a holiday house which has another Uniti mk 1 but a very high ceiling - 15 feet - and so far have found that the Uniti is coping ok (this is very recent).  I can see the point which Frank makes  about more power for grip - but I have been pleasantly surprised. They are currenly only 6 inches or so from the wall -( there are aesthetic constraints)

I have a pair of Compasses which I bought nearly new 5 years or so ago and they are now on my main system - they are about a foot out from the wall and seem more forgiving in the vocal department than the Arcs.They are all about the music rather than hi fi - with a "house" trait (shared with the Arcs in particular) for room -filling and they work really well with orchestral and acoustic music - but can deliver rock with a bit of welly too. 

Exchange rate changes post Brexit vote make the range expensive in the UK at present - but I like the lack of fussiness - no spikes required and the company's own instructions state that Arcs and Compasses can be placed partly behind furniture.

As always try to find a dealer who can demonstrate.

jatr

Everyone talks about the Shahinians' "omnidirectional" qualities but they are in my opinion about much more than that, capturing natural timbres impressivel and combining  bass slam with a realistic sense of decay. They time well (though quite not as fast as SBLs), achieve a realistic impression of space both forwards and back as well as side to side and recreate scale with ease, especially the larger models. They also don't nail you or guests down to a single effective listening position, while still positioning everything realistically. I know of no other speakers combining all these qualities. 

As for distance from the rear wall, this is dependent on so many other things, but I have found them pretty unfussy in my own room. The big Diapasons I have are a little more demanding than the Obleisks I also auditioned, but play very well with the back just 15cm away, although giving of their best once pulled out to around double that.

I also have a pair of Arcs from a few years back. I went to Grahams ages ago wanting to hear SBLs and they dragged out these two weird looking pedal bins, suggesting that I give them a listen also. I did and they were fabulous. However, I was set on SBLs so bought them instead. SBLs were great hi-fi, but only with great recordings. Anything substandard (i.e. 95% of stuff) was pretty tiring to listen to. I put up with them for a few years and then remembered those great Shahinians. 

Long story short - I got a pair of Arcs and immediately stopped visiting hi-fi forums (only here now because I'm dabbling with streaming). Never had my system sounded so musical and engaging. No gaskets, no spikes, just pure musicality and a few octaves of bottom end I'd not heard before. I've used them with an olive 250 and lots of Naim pres from 52 down to 72. The only thing I've heard better were Obelisks. Presentation between the two is different - I found the Obs more solid with the soundstage more grounded between the speakers (relatively). The Arcs have a slightly lighter (relatively!) presentation and throw the soundstage very high up in the air. Very dramatic to listen to and no "sweet spot". ESLs they ain't. Had a Dynavector HX1.2 for a try since those + Shahinian are allegedly a match made in heaven but - to be honest - I thought the gains were marginal given the cost differential between it and the 250 at the time. The Arcs stopped me upgrading endless Naim boxes.

Fabulous speakers. I'm intending to head out over the next few months and hear if anything better has come along in the meantime, but I'm prepared to be dissapointed.

Alba1320 posted:

Frank,

Typically, what sort of distances from the rear wall do you find is required with the Arcs and Obelisks?

It depends on the room to be honest. These speakers are far more full range than most. In our dead sounding foyer (30 x 20), they would both go fairly close to the wall, say 30-45cm depending on speaker, but at the Shahinian distributor's house, he had the Arcs nearly a meter into the room - sounded magic!

I should emphasize one thing. There's a big difference between v1 and v2 of these speakers. If memory serves, v1 were MDF cabs making Arcs exciting but a bit bright. V2 speakers are made of ply cabs and this has brought Arcs into a much more balanced presentation. Obelisks have more changes again, making the new versions far more enveloping in sound and textural. At least, that's my recollection.

Frank.

Ive run Shahinian's of various types since 1992 and would echo the views of the above posters ( especially Ebirah since I also bought my first pair of Arcs from Graham's having had an underwhelming experience with SD Acoustics SD1's..) . Arcs fronted my DNM Series3 / NAP250 system brilliantly for 7 years. Every time I'd listen to something else more conventional I'd appreciate what was good about those speakers but always felt they were just too 'HiFi' and not enough about the sound of natural music. I upgraded to Shahinian Hawks and NAP135's in 1999  and ran those ( with addition of NAP500 in 2003) until last year when a move to a new listening room meant I couldn't get the Hawks to work at their brilliant best any longer, and I successfully swapped them for a new pair of Obelisk2's. These suit my new room much better and tbh lose very little to the Hawks in the process.

I'm clearly sold BUT, My bullet point pointers for a potential buyer would be:

• Most importantly, Shahinian Presentation is simply very different to more conventional speakers and are very polarising in opinions. Definitely don't buy without listening first in your system AND in your room.
• my personal view is that Naim not only works 'well' with Shahinian, but actually works best. I've extensively home demoed both of Shahinian's own recommendations of Dynavector and Plinius Amps and good though they both are, for me the speakers produce the most musical performance with Naim. However, good current delivery is crucial and I think a 250 is the minimum Naim amp I'd use with my first generation Arcs or any of the bigger speakers in the range. I don't know your amps, but high current delivery and ability to cope with weird impedances is crucial. again, try them at home and you'll know.
• Ideal distance from wall is room and system dependent and can vary anywhere from 6inches to 4 feet. My Ob2's are best to my ears at 3 feet out, but aren't bad at 1 foot. The good news is the speakers are all easily moveable back and forth but best be prepared to be flexible with your room layout.

Good luck!

Thanks gents for the great replies. All very intriguing and sounds like my cup of tea. There is a handful of uk dealers and I will try calling the nearest one to see if a couple of their speakers are available to demo. I'll be sure to keep up the post on how I get on.

meanwhile...if there are some more happy owners and maybe home system pics, keep it coming.

There are some pics in this thread here: https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...or-500-system?page=2

 Incidentally, the positions of the Obelisk and Diapason  there are their "pulled out into the room" positions where they work best. Most of the time the Diapasons are kept with the front practically level with the front of the Fraim.

... But hopefully you get an idea of my listening room from this. Speakers are in the pushed back position here as the fire was on for the photo session. You may be able to make out 4 marks on the rug in front of the right speaker which are indents made by the castors when in optimum listening position. Position shown still sounds pretty darn good, but soundstage is best when pulled out. Rug vs Wood floor may also be a slight factor, but I've tried rolling the rug out of the way and not much difference. Positioning/distance to rear wall is the key. 

The castors on obs are an absolute stroke of genius and I've often wondered why more manufactured don't design their speakers with castors rather than spikes so they can easily be moved into their optimal position for critical listening. Many of us don't have a dedicated listening room so having the flexibility to move your speakers with ease is s real bonus.

I support what's been said already especially the difference between mk1 & mk2 obs, having owned both the mk2's are in another league. The other factor to getting the best from obs is providing them with plenty of current. My nap300 sounded good but since moving to Vitus amplification my obs mk2's  have really come to life.