Super Lumina Speaker Cables (again)

As a slightly side issue to all of this, I have been doing a little preparation ready for my home trial  which begins tomorrow because five years ago when I first moved into my bungalow and installed the hi-fi system I ended up having to use cable ties with a self adhesive plastic back plates to secure the NACA5 cable to the skirting board in an effort to 'route it' satisfactorily and have spent some time removing the fixings and of course the cables did remain in place having 'moulded' into shape over these last few years. Now what really astonished me as it was totally unexpected, is that I can now hear even more fine detail in the music and in addition has a sense of being even more 'free flowing'. The difference is fairly subtle but very definitely noticeable, so if this is just a small taste of whats to come, I can't wait to get those SL cables installed. I also wondered whether anybody else had gone through a similar experience.

Adam Zielinski posted:

dave marshall posted:

You've got my attention, especially as I'm currently trying out Billy Gibbons' 7's............mad or what?

Not at all.... Rest of my band mates use drop D tuning and I just stay in a standard 6-string bass (BEADGC) one. Much easier....

Derek C posted:

As a slightly side issue to all of this, I have been doing a little preparation ready for my home trial  which begins tomorrow because five years ago when I first moved into my bungalow and installed the hi-fi system I ended up having to use cable ties with a self adhesive plastic back plates to secure the NACA5 cable to the skirting board in an effort to 'route it' satisfactorily and have spent some time removing the fixings and of course the cables did remain in place having 'moulded' into shape over these last few years. Now what really astonished me as it was totally unexpected, is that I can now hear even more fine detail in the music and in addition has a sense of being even more 'free flowing'. The difference is fairly subtle but very definitely noticeable, so if this is just a small taste of whats to come, I can't wait to get those SL cables installed. I also wondered whether anybody else had gone through a similar experience.

Not at all surprised. I once made a mistake of tying down some of my cables.... It sort of strangles the sound....

dave marshall posted:

Adam Zielinski posted

 

 

 

Nahh... Take the strings off those lovely Gibsons and try those, especially if you use 9s or 10s Alternatively for some proper effect I can send you one of my low B strings - that goes up to .130"

You've got my attention, especially as I'm currently trying out Billy Gibbons' 7's............mad or what?

I used to play .008" sets, but it was like playing knicker elastic! I didn't even know it was possible to get .007s. When playing .008s I found switching to acoustic after long periods on electric was painful. Now I use .009s on my Les Paul and .010s on my 335. But I am currently using a .009 acoustic set on my Ovation - that is so playable. 

Clive B posted:

dave marshall posted:

Adam Zielinski posted

 

 

 

Nahh... Take the strings off those lovely Gibsons and try those, especially if you use 9s or 10s Alternatively for some proper effect I can send you one of my low B strings - that goes up to .130"

You've got my attention, especially as I'm currently trying out Billy Gibbons' 7's............mad or what?

I used to play .008" sets, but it was like playing knicker elastic! I didn't even know it was possible to get .007s. When playing .008s I found switching to acoustic after long periods on electric was painful. Now I use .009s on my Les Paul and .010s on my 335. But I am currently using a .009 acoustic set on my Ovation - that is so playable. 

I'm still just trying these out, and they're taking some getting used to...................though bends are a doddle, and if they're good enough for the Rev Billy....................

dave marshall posted:

Clive B posted:

dave marshall posted:

Adam Zielinski posted

 

 

 

Nahh... Take the strings off those lovely Gibsons and try those, especially if you use 9s or 10s Alternatively for some proper effect I can send you one of my low B strings - that goes up to .130"

You've got my attention, especially as I'm currently trying out Billy Gibbons' 7's............mad or what?

I used to play .008" sets, but it was like playing knicker elastic! I didn't even know it was possible to get .007s. When playing .008s I found switching to acoustic after long periods on electric was painful. Now I use .009s on my Les Paul and .010s on my 335. But I am currently using a .009 acoustic set on my Ovation - that is so playable. 

I'm still just trying these out, and they're taking some getting used to...................though bends are a doddle, and if they're good enough for the Rev Billy....................

Try this on for a size - my 6-string basses are now with my favourite set: 28-40-60-80-100-120

" Guys stop dorking around and start riffing ".

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

james n posted:

 

and a regular 470 k Ohm +/- 5% resistor at that - if I have read the colours correctly. Should be around 5 pence a piece unless bought in bulk,

I couldn't 'resist' zooming in and read the same value. 400mW precision metal film?

That was a brave thing to do Mr. HH, I hope it all went back together.

Thoughts on the cables Derek? 

I wonder if a Z foil would work.

Well Frank and any others who may be interested, the home demo of the SL cables (speaker and IC) was carried out in three stages using CD as the source. We played a few tracks prior to changing anything, then swopped the NACA5 for SL's, and then at a later stage swopped the standard IC for a SL between the nDAC and NAC252. All I can say at the moment is that the whole experiment was very inconclusive and unconvincing, which surprised me somewhat because I had quite high expectations led by what I had been told. Any differences that transpired were minor at each stage and I say difference rather than improvement because you could argue that one factor may have been better while at the same time another factor seemed to display a retrograde step and I did notice on certain music the timing seemed to be out.  Even Pete from Acoustica (my dealer) who arrived with the cables was quite surprised by the outcome and returned to the shop with the cables to contemplate the matter.

After returning my system back to 'normal' this evening, overall I think it sounds more natural and engaging, so I don't really know what else to say apart from that I am disappointed but equally pleased at the prospect of saving a substantial  sum of money!

PS. I would say the differences were actually less than that I experienced the other day after I removed the cable ties and self adhesive 'backing plates' which were securing the NACA5 to the skirting board and that was a definite improvement all round!

PPS. Sorry, my comments should have been address to FINKFAN and not Frank, my apologies FINKFAN!

I don't believe it's really possible to demonstrate these cables in a few hours. When I got mine the deal was that I bought them on the understanding that they could be returned for a full refund if I didn't want to keep them after a few weeks. 

If sounds like a cliche, but the differences were musical rather than Hifi per se. It was about getting closer to the music and the speakers disappearing so that the music inhabited the room. Everything was so much more engaging and captivating and I was absolutely delighted. At no point did my dealer come to the house and I did it all myself with no pressure. 

So who knows? Maybe it was a poor demonstration? Maybe there really was no difference? If you are still interested I'd suggest that you borrow the speaker leads for a fortnight and just forget about them. Then go back to the A5 and see if it's better or worse. This sort of demonstration is always very reliable, so might be worth a go. Or just keep the money in the bank!

It's been a long day!!!

Derek C posted:

Even Pete from Acoustica (my dealer) who arrived with the cables was quite surprised by the outcome and returned to the shop with the cables to contemplate the matter.

After returning my system back to 'normal' this evening, overall I think it sounds more natural and engaging, so I don't really know what else to say apart from that I am disappointed but equally pleased at the prospect of saving a substantial  sum of money!

Did Pete say whether the cables were run in, as I found that swapping the speaker cables did require a few days for them to come on song?

It's worth trying again, I'd suggest, with just the speaker cables, as adding the interconnect at the same time confuses things, I feel.

I did the full SL loom in stages, over a period of several months, and was able to see that the whole was greater than the sum of the parts..............though, as always, we all hear things differently.

Still, as you say, much money saved, as the biggest upgrade was achieved with a pair of wire cutters.

We both know, however, that Geoff will soon be on the phone to you with an alternative! 

Yes HH, I agree with your philosophy. The original arrangement was for the home demo with cables which had been 'run in' together with the delivery of new cables for me to keep and evaluate over time but Acoustica haven't yet received their latest order from Naim.

Hi Dave, yes, I am pretty sure that Geoff will be on the 'phone to me tomorrow!

I was considering a demo of the SuperLumima along with the TQ black diamond,  so your findings are somewhat surprising considering all that's been said on the forum about how good the SL's perform,  and I don't doubt anyone that says how good they are. Maybe as HH suggests it's worth giving it another go....please keep us informed 

Yes WENGER2015, I hope to try and progress this potential upgrade further but I wouldn't ever consider anything other than Naim SL's because I believe Naim know what they are doing especially with cables in the context of the whole system and in addition, there is nothing really wrong with the NACA5 anyway. So, if for me, the exercise does not yield results which I am totally happy with in the end, at least I can console myself with the money that I would save.  

This is most odd Derek.
Was SuperLumina DIN hanging freely behind your components - it should not be touching anything?

When I swapped from HiLine to SuperLumina (NDS to 252) I knew within 5 seconds I have found my interconnect. The difference was so clear. And that was on a brand new cable - my dealer didn't have a demo yet, so they just gave me a brand new box. 

SuperLumina speaker cables should also be placed so they are not stressed and simply snake accross the floor.

fascinating differences of opinions on SL sspeaker cables -- from "makes little or no difference" to "ruins the timing" to "significant musical improvement"

nothing really new here... you could replace "SL cable" with "another Hifi component" and you can be sure of more of less same divergence of views.

was it ever different?

enjoy...

ken

ken c posted:

fascinating differences of opinions on SL sspeaker cables -- from "makes little or no difference" to "ruins the timing" to "significant musical improvement"

nothing really new here... you could replace "SL cable" with "another Hifi component" and you can be sure of more of less same divergence of views.

was it ever different?

enjoy...

ken

My Old and rusty ears say that one thing is sure they are makking a very noticable difference, this is a 3sc you notice difference, this is a fact

whatever you like the change and if it is worth the money is rather subjective

hifi/detail/space/deepth vs more musicality maybe? 

Adam Zielinski posted:

This is most odd Derek.
Was SuperLumina DIN hanging freely behind your components - it should not be touching anything?

When I swapped from HiLine to SuperLumina (NDS to 252) I knew within 5 seconds I have found my interconnect. The difference was so clear. And that was on a brand new cable - my dealer didn't have a demo yet, so they just gave me a brand new box. 

SuperLumina speaker cables should also be placed so they are not stressed and simply snake accross the floor.

Mine was a similar experience to Adam's, albeit the interconnect and speaker cables were run-in.  The jump in performance was obvious in seconds. I really didn't need a long demo, even though I had one.  

I don't want to say I told you so..........

Your results are exactly what mine were when I heard the SL cables. Look, the point is when something costs so drastically more than what you are replacing, the improvement should be obvious, their should be a definite night and day difference. There is not!!!!!

Don't believe all this nonsense that SL cables have to be 1/4 inch off the floor or else your $4000.00 interconnect wont sound right. It's all fluff.

Like I said, your money could be put to better use elsewhere in the system, either with the electronics or the speakers.