Super Lumina Speaker Cables (again)

Derek - I'm glad you didn't like SuperLumina cables.
This way you can upgrade your Apheta to an Aphelion. I think it completely transforms an RP10 - music just flows.

HH, I still might decide to do just that, to settle my mind totally.

Yes Adam, one of my thoughts to come out of all this was perhaps to do what you are suggesting as an alternative.

Derek - one question: (been looking at your profile - lovely photos by the way!).

What is: RAA 8 Way Power Block?

Does it have any filters?

Derek C posted:

Yes Adam, one of my thoughts to come out of all this was perhaps to do what you are suggesting as an alternative.

The loading on the Apheta and Aphelion is the same - you wouldn't need to change your SuperLine setting.

I have only heard it via Rega's Aria phonostage - that is what I use at the moment. 

Adam, RAA are initials for Russ Andrews Accessories and the Powerblock is a mains electricity distribution unit.

By the way Adam, the scenic photo's were all taken in some of the mountain areas while backpacking here in North Wales, where I live. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Derek C posted:

After much deliberation and testing of the SL cables (used for the home demo) with other electronics and speaker combinations by Geoff and Pete back at base in Chester, the only conclusion they can draw is that my speakers (Linn Majik Isobariks) have reached their limit and the full performance of the Super Lumina cables exceed the MISO's capabilities. During the course of the conversation with Geoff over the phone I was thinking yes, that must be the reason but later, upon reflection, I'm not so sure that is the case because the MISO's have demonstrated quite vividly the improvements gained at each stage of my upgrade path including the difference between NAP300 and NAP300DR in late 2015, then of course, very recently, just removing the cable ties which had secured the NACA5 to the skirting boards.

Anyway, I then began to wonder whether there was anybody else on the forum who had experienced a similar scenario, particularly those who may also have the Linn Majik Isobariks.  

Sounds like a load of rubbish to me. One forum member added SL cables to Neat Motive 2s and was convinced by the difference, so surely they are not saying that the Isobariks are less resolving than Motive 2s?

I have to agree that this doesn't sound like a convincing explanation to me. Last year, at the end of a lengthy listening session, I tried some SL cables between a 200DR and Kudos X2s. The combined cost of the amp and speakers is not much more than the cost of the 5m pair of SL cables that connected them. In this humble setup, the difference between NACA5 and SL was blindingly obvious. Weather or not this difference would have stood up as a worthwhile improvement in an extended home demo is another matter, but the suggestion that your speakers are incapable of resolving the difference sounds like nonsense to me. All the more so if they are able to show up an improvement from removing a few cable ties.  

Surely it is possible that between any two components that given set of cables (and their length) could be a perfect match for the components they connect, such that whatever other cables are used nothing would improve. If so, it would be the case that between said components nothing else would be likely to sound better, regardless of cost. And is it possible that is simply the case with the OP's system (in the case of the speaker cable, decoupled from the fixings)?

Adam Zielinski posted:

Derek - one question: (been looking at your profile - lovely photos by the way!).

What is: RAA 8 Way Power Block?

Does it have any filters?

Definitely worth checking. I think it will at least have some form of 'spike protection', if not more interfering with the mains! 

Derek C posted:

After much deliberation and testing of the SL cables (used for the home demo) with other electronics and speaker combinations by Geoff and Pete back at base in Chester, the only conclusion they can draw is that my speakers (Linn Majik Isobariks) have reached their limit and the full performance of the Super Lumina cables exceed the MISO's capabilities.

"It ain't the cable sir, it's your lousy old speakers!" Brilliant! 

It does raise questions about a dealer's capability if they can come up with something that is so obviously moronic. 

First of all, sorry Adam, I should have answered the question properly last night: the RAA Powerblock does incorporate an electrical 'clamping' system to prevent surges and spikes in the mains getting through and I also have a separate unit that also serves the same purpose called a Megaclamp, which again is from RAA.

Now over on the SL speaker cable front, I have been giving the situation some further and deeper thought and please bear in mind that I am no expert in such matters but as far as I am aware cables can be affected in strange ways with regard to magnetic fields and other 'local' electrical currents including static. My living/listening room is fully carpeted with very thick underlay, both of which are fully synthetic and possibly prone to storing up static electrical charges, particularly in areas that are walked upon regularly and my slippers (again synthetic) that I wear indoors do have quite abrasive non-slip soles to them. So my thinking is, when the SL cables were 'snaked' across the floor from the speakers to the rest of the system on a route which allowed easier access to the NAP300DR for convenience during the demo, lying over the area which is walked upon very regularly when changing records or CD's etc. Therefore, obviously from what I have just written, I am suggesting that there could have been quite high static charges building up in that particular area of the floor which was influencing the SL cables performance but would not actually make itself apparent with the NACA5 because that is routed around the perimeter of the room well away from the area which is walked upon.

So it would interesting to hear any comments from anybody out there who may have a view or has a greater knowledge than I on the subject.      

Sounds intriguing, but it raises a question as to why you'd have synthetic underlay. While our carpet is the standard 80/20, the underlay is really thick woolly/felty stuff. Every time we have tried synthetic underlay it has fallen to bits really quickly. 

Anyway, as to the cables, rather than wondering if it's your 'useless' speakers, possessed carpets or leylines, I'd just get them back, stick them where the others are, and see what happens. Or just forget about the Super Luminas, which might be the easiest way. 

HH - The underlay is a foam type material and with the carpet was already fitted when I moved into the property and was obviously, from it's appearance, pretty new. And yes, I will in all probability borrow the cables again to conduct a proper 'real world' evaluation.

Derek C posted:

First of all, sorry Adam, I should have answered the question properly last night: the RAA Powerblock does incorporate an electrical 'clamping' system to prevent surges and spikes in the mains getting through and I also have a separate unit that also serves the same purpose called a Megaclamp, which again is from RAA.

 

I'm a bit concerned about the effect it may have on your NAIM. I made a mistake in the past of using some anti-spike power distribution units. They seriously coloured the sound and actually made SuperLumina sound a bit funny.

Generally all the distribution blocks that 'have something' inside (except for a simple star-connected circuitry) tend to boost bass and trebble (or cut middle - the same thing really). 
SuperLumina is very transparent - so perhaps, perhaps there was something that you've now heard that didn't quite agree with you. Perhaps it's the impact of that distribution block, which was previously a bit masked by NACA5.

If possible see if you can just plug your gear into a simple distribution block, with no protection.

Of course you'd need to run this test first with yoru NACA5 and only then switch to SuperLumina.

Ah!  Those Russ Andrews 'clamps' might be having a detrimental impact on the system. Naim normally advises against using any mains filtering of this kind.  I have previously used quite a number of RA mains cables, noise filters etc but apart from the distribution block, which has no clamp or filter built in, I removed the lot when I got Naim amps.  Leaving aside the SL cable question, as Adam suggests, it would be worth replacing the RA distribution block with a normal one to see if it makes any difference to the performance of your system.    

Thanks Adam and MDS, now that is a thought which I hadn't considered and is worthy of exploration!

Easily tried, David. Do report your findings.

Derek C posted:

Well Geoff and Pete at Acoustica are still considering why the home demo didn't deliver the results that we were all hoping for and I have spent the day playing the albums that the tracks came from during the demo yesterday. I had intended to just play the individual tracks but the system sound is so well balanced and so 'right' with great 'rhythmic flow' that I was compelled to listen to the entire album each time. Also having played a greater range and quantity of music since removing the cable ties etc. from the NACA5, I've come to realise that the improvements which I have experienced are far more than just subtle, which was my initial thought. In fact, as the day has progressed I am now left with the feeling that the system is just so right that it can't be improved in ultimate enjoyment terms which is probably due to true synergy between the system, the room and me and I'm a great believer in synergy. So under the circumstances and despite the attraction of the SL's which I thought would achieve more of what I already had, I think that I will probably forget about changing anything at all now, partly in fear of possibly losing some of that synergy and the fact that I just don't feel the need to! 

Hello Derek.

I've been following your SL story with interest. Hi-Fi manufacturers would have us believe that they produce panaceas. Not so. A SL full loom has worked for me, but if it doesn't for you; so be it. No 'rave review' is going to change the way you perceive sound.

We need to have the courage of our convictions and simply go with what feels/sounds right. If there was a perfect car out there, we'd all be driving it.

Enjoy the music.

John.

Hello John,

Many thanks for your well considered  and supportive comments, which are very much appreciated. Today I have been able to follow up on the previous posts from Adam and MDS (with reference to the RA Power Block & Megaclamp) and guess what, the results have been extremely encouraging, so much so, I think that I definitely need to conduct further trials with the SL cables and therefore, I will be 'phoning Geoff and Pete at Acoustica tomorrow morning to make the arrangements. I haven't got time at the moment to go into all the details of what I've done because I want to return to the living room to listen to more music, which after all, is what it's all about but to my mind, it does raise questions about the RA units.   

It's interesting, Derek, that despite all your experience of Naim, you've somehow missed out on what virtually all Naim owners seem to know, which is that mains blocks with filters, spike protectors and similar gubbins are almost invariably a seriously bad deal. Either plug the units straight into the wall, or into a good quality unfiltered block. And extending further, get a dedicated mains feed installed, which for £400 or so will be far more effective than thousands of pounds worth of fancy cables. I certainly wouldn't even consider SL cables without dedicated mains. If you are interested in this, there are loads of threads, including one in the last few days. 

Derek C posted:

Hello John,

Many thanks for your well considered  and supportive comments, which are very much appreciated. Today I have been able to follow up on the previous posts from Adam and MDS (with reference to the RA Power Block & Megaclamp) and guess what, the results have been extremely encouraging, so much so, I think that I definitely need to conduct further trials with the SL cables and therefore, I will be 'phoning Geoff and Pete at Acoustica tomorrow morning to make the arrangements. I haven't got time at the moment to go into all the details of what I've done because I want to return to the living room to listen to more music, which after all, is what it's all about but to my mind, it does raise questions about the RA units.   

Geoff says "Woohoo!"

Seriously though, I hope you will now be able to enjoy the benefits of the SL cables which most folks have reported, (although there are some who still prefer the Nac A5).

I stuck my Nac A5 back on over the weekend..............it's not that it's not good, after all, it's what most of us used for years, but the SL is just.............well, you get the picture.

Good luck.

Dave.

Derek, not sure what you have done to your system today but you seemed pleased with the results so far.I would leave the SL cable demo till you have the mains sorted and get used to the way the system sounds with these changes

Once your happy on that score then look to re book the SL cables on an extended demo.

I have a set on demo at the moment they are superb everything just seems to open up with such stunning detail and bass control the icing on the cake as they say. 

Derek C posted:

Hello John,

Many thanks for your well considered  and supportive comments, which are very much appreciated. Today I have been able to follow up on the previous posts from Adam and MDS (with reference to the RA Power Block & Megaclamp) and guess what, the results have been extremely encouraging, so much so, I think that I definitely need to conduct further trials with the SL cables and therefore, I will be 'phoning Geoff and Pete at Acoustica tomorrow morning to make the arrangements. I haven't got time at the moment to go into all the details of what I've done because I want to return to the living room to listen to more music, which after all, is what it's all about but to my mind, it does raise questions about the RA units.   

Sounds promising, Derek.  Do update us when you have time.