Super Lumina Speaker Cables (again)

Hungryhalibut posted:

It's interesting, Derek, that despite all your experience of Naim, you've somehow missed out on what virtually all Naim owners seem to know, which is that mains blocks with filters, spike protectors and similar gubbins are almost invariably a seriously bad deal. Either plug the units straight into the wall, or into a good quality unfiltered block.  

More interesting still, Nigel, is why Derek's dealer didn't alight onto this.

Mike

MDS posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

It's interesting, Derek, that despite all your experience of Naim, you've somehow missed out on what virtually all Naim owners seem to know, which is that mains blocks with filters, spike protectors and similar gubbins are almost invariably a seriously bad deal. Either plug the units straight into the wall, or into a good quality unfiltered block.  

More interesting still, Nigel, is why Derek's dealer didn't alight onto this.

Mike

He probably sold the RA block in the first place

I did wonder whether that might be the case

But it's not the crappy mains blocks, it's the crappy speakers, or maybe the electrical carpet. This wouldn't happen in Chichester, but in the wild and woolly north it's another world...

Adam Zielinski posted:

MDS posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

It's interesting, Derek, that despite all your experience of Naim, you've somehow missed out on what virtually all Naim owners seem to know, which is that mains blocks with filters, spike protectors and similar gubbins are almost invariably a seriously bad deal. Either plug the units straight into the wall, or into a good quality unfiltered block.  

More interesting still, Nigel, is why Derek's dealer didn't alight onto this.

Mike

He probably sold the RA block in the first place

I use the same dealer and I would be very surprised if that were the case

Let's not speculate further, but wait for Derek to report his findings.

For a start, Russ Andrews only sells direct to the customer and not through dealers and I bought these items quite innocently (and probably 'taken in' by the RA team) in preparation prior to moving because I knew where I was going to site the hi-fi system and there were only two double wall sockets in that area of the room. Considering I had only lost my darling wife to cancer a few weeks prior to this and had I been in possession of my normal state of mind I would have actually fitted additional wall sockets but I was just looking for an easy option. Also, I wasn't even aware that there was a Naim forum back then and since I discovered it, I do dip in occasionally but when I do, I have noticed that there seems to be quite a few people who spend their lives on here whereas I prefer to spend my time actually listening to music when I'm at home. In addition, I am now at an age when I just don't wish to spend my time 'fiddling' with the system at all really and just want to play records and CD's.  It is also a testament to my system, including the speakers of course, at least I think so anyway, that under the circumstances, it did still manage to produce a very satisfying sound, confirmed by the various demos etc of even far more expensive equipment I have attended during this time, it's just that it's even more satisfying now.

I should also point out that my dealer has probably forgotten all about the RA units which I had in place because they were located in a place where they couldn't easily be seen, though I think they did mention something about it shortly after I moved and had made contact with them.

Perhaps Derek's in a part of the world where there is a strong chance of electrical storms. Perhaps the dealer didn't know of the RA at all. Sometimes I do wonder at the caustic tone used around here...

Derek, fwiw, if you are looking at an unfiltered mains block now, try to get a listen to the MusicWorks products. They're star earthed and seriously good, preserving all the PRaT goodness while opening up the system (the exact opposite of a typical surge protected block). Only limitation is that they aren't in huge supply, being essentially a sideline (of Acoustica's if memory serves) but the results are emphatically positive generally.

Frank.

I should also thank Adam (and CMS)  for realising what the problem could be and at least I do now know to steer clear of any sort of 'conditioning' products. We all make mistakes but hopefully we do learn from them but I do really regret this one because if I remember rightly it cost me me around £1,000.

Many thanks Frank, I'll be speaking to Acoustica about it all tomorrow.

Yep, they're not cheap. Even the MusicWorks products start at £485.

It is weird though, how conditioning products consistently drag down so many systems.

Frank.

+1 on Frank's comment about the caustic tone of some comments

And also +1 on PCD's recommendation to take things one step at a time.

Find a good solution for your mains supply first. In my experience the Powerigel works better than most for PRAT. I have also found a spur to the highest standards with separate consumer unit, new meter tails and rest can make very little difference in some installations, especially in newer houses with good earth bonding and nice fat power cables from the meter to consumer unit etc., so wouldn't advise simply chucking money at this without prior investigation of what is already there.

And by the way, after a further listening session this evening I can confirm that the results are more than just encouraging they are verging on incredible!

Thanks for your input also, Michael.

Derek

If you are apprenehsive about expensvie distribution blocks (and generally you should be) you could try:

* Wireworld Matrix 2 - around GBP100

* Furutech eTP60 - around GBP 300

Given the level of your system Wireworld may a bit too simple, but generally it does what it says on the tin I use this one for my SuperNait2 based system with good results.

A good dealer should let you try one or more distribution blocks at home. There shouldn't be a need to spend until you have found what works.

Thanks Adam

Michael_B. posted:

A good dealer should let you try one or more distribution blocks at home. There shouldn't be a need to spend until you have found what works.

Exactly!!!!

Many thanks everybody and goodnight, it's past my bedtime (well, I am an old aged pensioner, you know!!!)

Derek, please don't take any of my comments negatively, though looking back at them I can see how you might. It was your dealer's suggestion that your speakers are inadequate to show the difference that got me concerned.  Anyway, for mains blocks, unless you have Powerlines on every box, I'd recommend that you look at the Grahams hydra, which is made by the London Naim dealer Grahams. They are great things and enable you to connect all your Naim boxes to one socket. I used one for years, even when I had a CDS3, 552 and 300 and have never heard better, except Powerlines into separate sockets. Unless you go for multiple Powerlines, I really wouldn't bother with anything else. 

Michael_B. posted:

+1 on Frank's comment about the caustic tone of some comments

And also +1 on PCD's recommendation to take things one step at a time.

Find a good solution for your mains supply first. In my experience the Powerigel works better than most for PRAT. I have also found a spur to the highest standards with separate consumer unit, new meter tails and rest can make very little difference in some installations, especially in newer houses with good earth bonding and nice fat power cables from the meter to consumer unit etc., so wouldn't advise simply chucking money at this without prior investigation of what is already there.

+2 and throw away remarks about good Naim dealers from people who donn't know them and haven't used them are irritating in the extreme

Hi Derek you seem to be edging closer to the root of the problem and you are reaping rewards along the way with what you already have and are familiar with and I admire your systematic approach and taking your time. By all accounts you have opened the window on your system and music is now flowing in a way like never before. It will certainly be worth your while having a second listen to the SL cables and you should borrow them for a week and leave them in. Then go back to the NAC A5. You will then be in a good position to make a judgement on whether they are worth purchasing for your set up. If you decide to stick with what you have then this exorcise has been a very worthwhile experience and has enabled you to enjoy a higher level of musical satisfaction from your set up and the changes you have made,

+1 for the Musicworks block. I use a Relex Lite in my system for the boxes that do not have their own wall socket. If you can feed your power amp directly from the wall rather than from a block I have found this to be beneficial. I have a dedicated spur feeding an unswitched MK double socket, The NAP 500  uses one of the sockets and the Musicworks block uses the other and the rest of the system plugs into this apart from the Radikal which I have plugged in to the normal house ring main. One extra cost, I do use a Powerline to feed the Musicworks block again this works very well but that could come later.

dayjay posted:

Michael_B. posted:

+1 on Frank's comment about the caustic tone of some comments

And also +1 on PCD's recommendation to take things one step at a time.

Find a good solution for your mains supply first. In my experience the Powerigel works better than most for PRAT. I have also found a spur to the highest standards with separate consumer unit, new meter tails and rest can make very little difference in some installations, especially in newer houses with good earth bonding and nice fat power cables from the meter to consumer unit etc., so wouldn't advise simply chucking money at this without prior investigation of what is already there.

+2 and throw away remarks about good Naim dealers from people who donn't know them and haven't used them are irritating in the extreme

+3 to the above 

wenger2015 posted:

dayjay posted:

Michael_B. posted:

+1 on Frank's comment about the caustic tone of some comments

And also +1 on PCD's recommendation to take things one step at a time.

Find a good solution for your mains supply first. In my experience the Powerigel works better than most for PRAT. I have also found a spur to the highest standards with separate consumer unit, new meter tails and rest can make very little difference in some installations, especially in newer houses with good earth bonding and nice fat power cables from the meter to consumer unit etc., so wouldn't advise simply chucking money at this without prior investigation of what is already there.

+2 and throw away remarks about good Naim dealers from people who donn't know them and haven't used them are irritating in the extreme

+3 to the above 

+4

HH you give good advise on this forum, but occasionally you let yourself down with your asinine comments.

It may be wild and wooly up here, but that's its charm. We stopped using woad along time ago. 

Do Chichester a favour and stick to the positive and constructive comments you're noted for.

"HH you give good advise on this forum, but occasionally you let yourself down with your asinine comments."

I think that HH can be forgiven a little tetchiness in the aftermath of his accident, no?