Hi to everyone ,can anyone tell me if 282 + supercap 2 is close to a 252 you veiws would be much appreciated .
Can't comment on a 282 with a Supercap 2 but at an audition earlier this year with a 282 and Supercap dr changing the 282 to a 252 made a big difference better bass control etc it just seemed to bring more out of the music.
Don;t get me wrong the 282 was excellent but as I was buying a new system the difference in cost of a 282 and a 252 was more than justified in my experience.
There's a lot of stuff on the forum about 282 vs 252.
In short the deal is as follows:
You can use a 282 with 1 HiCap, 2 Hicaps or a Supercap. There will be improvements at each of those stages.
You can only use a 252 with a Supercap.
(I'm not going to get into whether 282 + SCDR is "close to" 252 + SC non-DR, and the other various permutations arising out of DR.)
So what you are really asking is whether 282 + SuperCap is "close to" 252 + SuperCap. On that question, the Naim forum is almost equally divided between those (like me) who really like the 252 and those who prefer the 282. They have very different presentations and you really need to listen to both before you buy, particularly if buying new.
With that summary in mind, search the forum for past posts on 282 vs 252 to get a feel for what each of them can do and why supporters like one or the other...
Good morning Aceone.
Just checked your profile, by your ranking, I can see you're not that active on the Forum.
Also, I see you've joined the Forum in June, of 2013.
Just curious, have you owned any Naim gear in the past ?
The reason I asked, because this is a hot topic, and can become very heated.
I've joined the Forum in January, of 2015, unlike yourself, I'm very active, and check in daily to survey the Forum.
To answer your question, I will say yes, very close, but I can't speak from hands on experience.
However, there are tons of post on this topic, just search 282 vs 252. In the end, the 252 will come out on top, a more refined sound, more detailed, some will say more laidback.
Those that favor the 282, will say the 252 is to laidback, and lacks the Boogie Factor of the 282.
Welcome to the Forum, if you're considering either pre amp as an entry into the world of Naim, you can't go wrong.
But, in your spare time, Google the following:
Naim 555 very high end CD player (CES 2007)
Naim debuts its Reference CD player, with its iconic DBLs in an Active System!
Which Pre Amp do they use ?
Which Amps do they use ?
You got it, their middle of the road 282, paired with a trio of 250s.
If a 282 was good enough for that System, I figured it would suit me, just fine!
Allante93!
I demo'd 'do a 282 Supercap against a 252 Supercap earlier this year and personally found there to be a sizeable difference between the two amps, I much preferred the 252, to put it in basic terms to me it was as if the music became "widescreen" when switched to the 252, more depth, more detail, tighter bass, better stereo imaging.
I've had various Naim setups over a number of years and tried things that people rave about only to be left cold when I tried it, so you had to try & demo yourself if at all possible.
When I had the demo I started with my then setup which was a 272, 250 DR, 555 DR, then moved to a 282, HiCap DR, 250 DR, NDX, then 282, Supercap DR, 250 DR, NDX & finally the 252, Supercap DR, 250 DR, NDX. Each time the step up was very noticeable in my opinion and always for the better.
I went from 282/SupercapDR to 252/SupercapDR and are they close in SQ terms? IMHO….no. But I have not done the 282/252 comparison with the Supercap 2 (non DR) but would suggest the results would be similar.
As others have mentioned the sonic signature between the 282 and 252 and the way they present things is very different….and indeed divides opinion. So the only way, assuming you have a nearby friendly dealer…well you know what comes next.
By the way, as you might suspect, I am in the 252 camp, it just makes music better than the wonderful 282 I used to own and love.
Okay let's have another go at this.
The 282 is in my opinion where the Naim high end begins, a truly brilliant soundstage, fantastic groove and very musical. It will match with a variety of source components from CD5XS through to the CD555. Exceptionally versatile it can be powered from either the NAP 150 or 200 power amps, the flat cap, one or two hi-caps or a super cap. It will also partner with the 250 and 300 power amps. For me it's the only pre amp I'll ever need.
But if you have Supercap the 252 is an improvement. I've heard all this about too laid back. Tosh it's more refined.
Listen if you can and decide.
Regards,
Lindsay
Aceone - I twice had lengthy home demos comparing that exact combination and in my view the answer is no, they are not close. Their presentations are different. A search on here with reveal lots and lots of views on the differences.
In short I would summarise the 252/SC as very refined, detailed and a bit laid back. The 282/SC is not as subtle and more attention grabbing. I could have lived with the 252/SC on much of the music I like but on rock it didn't give me the excitement and punch that I enjoy with the 282/SC. Others on here prefer the 252 over the 282/SC.
So don't buy blind. Get thorough demo of both trying lots of different music to find out which presentation you prefer.
Mike
Thanks to everyone for your answers I think I better have a good demo to see for my self
Aceone posted:Thanks to everyone for your answers I think I better have a good demo to see for my self
A very good idea - have fun 
The Strat (Fender) posted:Okay let's have another go at this.
The 282 is in my opinion where the Naim high end begins, a truly brilliant soundstage, fantastic groove and very musical. It will match with a variety of source components from CD5XS through to the CD555......
Exceptionally versatile it can be powered from either the NAP 150 or 200 power amps, the flat cap, one or two hi-caps or a super cap. It will also partner with the 250 and 300 power amps. For me it's the only pre amp I'll ever need.
But if you have Supercap the 252 is an improvement. I've heard all this about too laid back. Tosh it's more refined.
Listen if you can and decide.
Regards,
Lindsay
A very heated topic, when it comes to the 282 vs 252, Why, its affordable!
Agreed, Strat, Listen if you can, and decide, if you can !
As I mentioned I can't speak from experience, but I would've loved to substitute an 252, or even an 552 with the 282/2007 CES debut of the CD555!
That's right CD555/555PS/252/SC/SC/Snaxo/3 x 250/ DBLs
vs 282, and see how much refined it is!
Blind fold of Course!
And pick out the more refined, grown up version of the 282, its big brother, the 252 !
I don't know, it just seems like the natural partner with the Naim's Reference CDP, would have been the 500 series!
CD555/555PS/552/552PS/SC/Snaxo/ 3 x 500s / DBLs
But, it looks like the 282/250s, wasn't to much of a disservice with the Active DBLs!
Just my thoughts!
Allanate93!
Supercapping the 282 will give you more 282. the 252 is different and in a different league.
MDS posted:Aceone - I twice had lengthy home demos comparing that exact combination and in my view the answer is no, they are not close. Their presentations are different. A search on here with reveal lots and lots of views on the differences.
In short I would summarise the 252/SC as very refined, detailed and a bit laid back. The 282/SC is not as subtle and more attention grabbing. I could have lived with the 252/SC on much of the music I like but on rock it didn't give me the excitement and punch that I enjoy with the 282/SC. Others on here prefer the 252 over the 282/SC.
So don't buy blind. Get thorough demo of both trying lots of different music to find out which presentation you prefer.
Mike
Thank you for describing on the differences between the NAC 252 and NAC 282. That pretty much gives me a rough idea on how both would sound like.
In summary, I would deduce that the NAC 282 does the macro-dynamics better than the NAC 252, whereas the NAC 252 does the detail and refinement better.
Wow, I've never heard of a 282 playing music better than a 252. While the 282 is terrific, a 252 (or 52) is just on another plane. If the 252 doesn't sound substantially better I'd suggest it's either not properly set up or defective. It's WAY more revealing than the 282 - and oftentimes people don't like 'more revealing.'
+1. Having owned a 282 and 252, the two are very different indeed. The 252 is more resolving, subtle and transparent in addition to digging out more low shelf bass energy. Transients and subtle transients are more accurately portrayed resulting in more realistic and some times strartling realistic portrayal of audio. The 'Mandelbrot' effect is certainly more evident with the 252 thanks to its rendering of micro dynamics and detail.
The 282 is also great, but seems to focus more on what makes (mostly rock and blues) music enjoyable at the expense of less neutrality and accurate resolution (precision). The 'Mandelbrot' effect falls away quite quickly on the 282 due to its relative reduced precision and less accurate micro transients. However I could have happily lived with the 282 until I heard and positively enjoyed the 252.
If a 252 does not sound overall superior than a 282 I say there is a fault or not set up correctly.. but that is not the same that you will necessarily prefer a 252 to a 282.. and system/room synergy can play a part here as well.
Better does not always mean preferable.....
FWIW, I have a 282/SCDR and while I think the SCDR is not wasted on a 282 (it is awsome really), a 252 sounds more grown up.
My 282 is making way for a 252. On the other hand, I would be perfectly happy to stay with the 282. To some degree, the 252 is a bit of "out of sight out of mind". There are not many chances for me to be reminded of how much better it was than the 282.
Moderated Post: I've made a couple of edits to ensure your post keeps with forum rules.
282 is not similar to 252.
282 never really made me comfortable - I realised I was listening to a pre-amp rather than music.
252 restored the order - now I simply enjoy whatever music is being played.
Aceone posted:Thanks to everyone for your answers I think I better have a good demo to see for my self
Well, there you go Ace, a heated post.
Why, a 2nd hand 282 is affordable!
A 2nd 252, is in Reach, but a 2nd hand 552, well that's another story!
Is the 252 close to an 552 ?
Different price, another league, Blind fold the dealer, bet he would have a hard time distinguishing between the 252, and 552!
Not a ton of post, 252 vs 552, it's the pecking order!
S1, 552, 252, 282, 272, and quiet as it is kept, the 272 is right there!
But again. I'm not speaking from experience, so you can disregard what I'm saying.
The 500 Club, ain't small potatoes, but check out an ongoing post. How to demo.
Dayjay's stage 2, in house demo is on point!
And if you are not fortunate enough, to do a proper demo, follow the Big Boys!
Where money isn't factored in the demo, just demonstrateing Naim's Reference CDP within, an iconic Naim System!
2007 CES debuts CD555
CD555/282/Snaxo/3 x 250/DBLs
You Tube!
Surely, they could've slapped the 500 series in there, but again, the middle of the road 282, didn't do an disservice, to 20K debut Reference CD555!
Just some Thoughts!
Allante93!
Bob Edwards posted:Wow, I've never heard of a 282 playing music better than a 252. While the 282 is terrific, a 252 (or 52) is just on another plane. If the 252 doesn't sound substantially better I'd suggest it's either not properly set up or defective. It's WAY more revealing than the 282 - and oftentimes people don't like 'more revealing.'
Bob - on my two home demos of 252/SC v 282/SC I am 100% confident that the set-up was spot on and the 252 was performing to spec. My, very knowledgeable, dealer took great care on both occasions to ensure this. And both demos lasted about 2 weeks so everything was fully warmed up and settled. And I had the opportunity to play loads of music. At the conclusion of the second demo when the 252 was to be removed, the dealer and I had a final listen. We played an AC/DC song well know to both of us. There was lots of detail when the 252 was in place. My 282 was then re-inserted (it had been kept warm) and the same song played again. Suddenly AC/DC seemed to be enjoying themselves again. The energy, rawness and rock-power was fully back and immensely enjoyable. We both heard it.
So, I'm not saying the 252 is inferior to the 282. What I am saying is that I much preferred the 282 when playing rock music.
Mike
MDS posted:Bob Edwards posted:Wow, I've never heard of a 282 playing music better than a 252. While the 282 is terrific, a 252 (or 52) is just on another plane. If the 252 doesn't sound substantially better I'd suggest it's either not properly set up or defective. It's WAY more revealing than the 282 - and oftentimes people don't like 'more revealing.'
Bob - on my two home demos of 252/SC v 282/SC I am 100% confident that the set-up was spot on and the 252 was performing to spec. My, very knowledgeable, dealer took great care on both occasions to ensure this. And both demos lasted about 2 weeks so everything was fully warmed up and settled. And I had the opportunity to play loads of music. At the conclusion of the second demo when the 252 was to be removed, the dealer and I had a final listen. We played an AC/DC song well know to both of us. There was lots of detail when the 252 was in place. My 282 was then re-inserted (it had been kept warm) and the same song played again. Suddenly AC/DC seemed to be enjoying themselves again. The energy, rawness and rock-power was fully back and immensely enjoyable. We both heard it.
So, I'm not saying the 252 is inferior to the 282. What I am saying is that I much preferred the 282 when playing rock music.
Mike
Gentleman, that's my point!
Posted by Aceone, the OP:
""Hi to everyone ,can anyone tell me if 282 + supercap 2 is close to a 252 you veiws would be much appreciated .""
Sounds like an yes to me!
Repeat, Blindfold, and check the statistical data!
Subtle differences, which leads to personal preferences! But close, depending on one's taste.
Now search 252 vs 552, If one suggest that they are close, the 500 Club, will give you a flogging!
Allante93!
Just Maybe, the difference may be due to the IC's that connect the PS!
My 282 uses two Sniacs, as opposed to the 252's 17 pin Burndy type!
Perhaps, that allows the SC to shine, and be utilized more so than an 282!
Just a guess!
But close, Yes, that's why we're posting about it!
Allante93!
The 252 and 282 are in no way close. But just because the 252 is clearly the better amp doesn't mean it is necessarily more enjoyable. I have owned a 252 back in the day, and found it a bit dull, so bought a 552 instead, which is in a totally different class altogether, hugely and massively better in every way. Anyone who says that the 252 and 552 are close is simply deluded, or deaf.
Hungryhalibut posted:The 252 and 282 are in no way close. But just because the 252 is clearly the better amp doesn't mean it is necessarily more enjoyable. I have owned a 252 back in the day, and found it a bit dull, so bought a 552 instead, which is in a totally different class altogether, hugely and massively better in every way. Anyone who says that the 252 and 552 are close is simply deluded, or deaf.
Ok, someone with hands on experience.
552, and 252, not close by a long shot.
Playing the devils advocate, just because the 552 is clearly the better amp doesn't mean it is necessarily more enjoyable than a 252.
Point being, if 100 Audiophiles auditioned an 552 & 252, 90% would find the former better/more enjoyable than the 252 !
Repeat, just guessing, I'm not an Audiophile, or speaking from hands on experience!
Whereas, the same Argument with an 252, and 282, perhaps 60%, 65%, 68%, you get the point!
Closer, depending on personal preference!
How's that head feeling HH?
Allante93!
Allante93 posted:Hungryhalibut posted:The 252 and 282 are in no way close. But just because the 252 is clearly the better amp doesn't mean it is necessarily more enjoyable. I have owned a 252 back in the day, and found it a bit dull, so bought a 552 instead, which is in a totally different class altogether, hugely and massively better in every way. Anyone who says that the 252 and 552 are close is simply deluded, or deaf.
552, and 252, not close by a long shot.
Playing the devils advocate, just because the 552 is clearly the better amp doesn't mean it is necessarily more enjoyable than a 252.
Allante93!
Allante93 - as mentioned on this thread earlier, I preferred the 282 to the 252 but, as HH says, the 552 is in a different league. It's not a question of preferences on presentation. Listen to one.
MDS posted:Allante93 posted:Hungryhalibut posted:The 252 and 282 are in no way close. But just because the 252 is clearly the better amp doesn't mean it is necessarily more enjoyable. I have owned a 252 back in the day, and found it a bit dull, so bought a 552 instead, which is in a totally different class altogether, hugely and massively better in every way. Anyone who says that the 252 and 552 are close is simply deluded, or deaf.
552, and 252, not close by a long shot.
Playing the devils advocate, just because the 552 is clearly the better amp doesn't mean it is necessarily more enjoyable than a 252.
Allante93!
Allante93 - as mentioned on this thread earlier, I preferred the 282 to the 252 but, as HH says, the 552 is in a different league. It's not a question of preferences on presentation. Listen to one.
Mike, I was playing the devils advocate, Remember I stated the 500 Club would issue an flogging, if someone suggested that the 252, was close to an 552!
My Argument is with you an HH:
""The 252 and 282 are in no way close. But just because the 252 is clearly the better amp doesn't mean it is necessarily more enjoyable.""
Now you got it, no one can make that statement about an 252 & 552, as you say, Just Listen!
Allante93!
Allante93 posted:Gentleman, that's my point!
Posted by Aceone, the OP:
""Hi to everyone ,can anyone tell me if 282 + supercap 2 is close to a 252 you veiws would be much appreciated .""
Sounds like an yes to me!
Absolutely not - to me my SuperCapDR on my 282 spoilt the 282 and if you like exaggerates the 282 sound to make it unappealing to my ears - a bit too hifi like. Another way of looking it is that the differences between the 282 and 252 get more extreme with the SuperCapDR on the 282. When I had my 282 i parked my SuperCapDR and ran my 282 from my single HiCapDR which to me gave the most appealing performance from the 282 - i.e. not too exaggerated but allowing the 282 to do what it does best - sounding musically enjoyable.
Of course when my 252 came along I got musical enjoyment and precision and detail..but the 252 is more demanding of the downstream system and even more so the 552 - so ensure its upto it if you go there.. the 282 is more forgiving.
Listen to a 252DR and a 552DR and you will see what I mean there are similar traits but the 552DR builds on the 252 and takes things further - which is kind of what you expect - but it will mercilessly expose things not quite right elsewhere.
Now all my experiences are with DR - I can't comment on non DR with the NACs - things could be quite different and from all accounts the 552 was more ahead of the pack in the nonDR world . but I have only others word for that.
S