282 with supercap 2

Thank goodness the OP came to a sensible conclusion a day ago, and will have a listen. All Allante seems to be adding is endless confusion and is presenting guesswork as fact, with no personal experience whatsoever. 

I was wondering - I just thought I ought to add my perspective on my personal experiences  in case some poor peeps were still following the thread

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

 

I was wondering - I just thought I ought to add my perspective on my personal experiences  in case some poor peeps were still following the thread

 

Well we three (inc HH) seem to be still following it 

and joe makes 4.

i'll be interested to hear the OP's thoughts on this following his demo. i just got a 282 and while it's early days, i'm really enjoying it and (quantitatively) listening to more music. has to be a good thing, right?

i suspect i'll never get a 252, for i would first have to get a proper hifi rack -- and i don't want a proper hifi rack. ergo, no 252.

My only further gloss is that my newly DR'd 250 seems to me to provide my 252 with more bass authority (though not quite the 282's over-exuberance) which I rather think now puts me in the best of all possible worlds... Panglossian synergy?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

 

I was wondering - I just thought I ought to add my perspective on my personal experiences  in case some poor peeps were still following the thread

 

I'm still reading...

Like you Simon, I found that 282 +SCDR became too tiring, too hi-fi like. I like what 252 brought to the party.
Now of course 552 is starting to tempt me....

Question: have you heard or run 552 with NAP 250? Or another way to put the question: if I move to 552, should I also start planning upgrading the power amp from say NAP250DR to NAP300DR?

Adam

Question: have you heard or run 552 with NAP 250? Or another way to put the question: if I move to 552, should I also start planning upgrading the power amp from say NAP250DR to NAP300DR?

I have a 552 with 250DR. It's very good in my system with S400s. 

Which is not to say that a 300 or 500 wouldn't be better. But so would be a full Statement ...

Hungryhalibut posted:

The 252 and 282 are in no way close. But just because the 252 is clearly the better amp doesn't mean it is necessarily more enjoyable. I have owned a 252 back in the day, and found it a bit dull, so bought a 552 instead, which is in a totally different class altogether, hugely and massively better in every way. Anyone who says that the 252 and 552 are close is simply deluded, or deaf. 

Nothing like hands on experience, HH has done, 552, 252, 282, and now resides at the 272.

Simon had upgraded from 282 to 252 and quite pleased.

Repeat I have no hands on experience, but confusion!

""Just because the 252 is the better amp, doesn't mean it's more enjoyable.""

Now please correct me, if I'm wrong.

@ Simon, you've upgraded from 282 to 252, you've felt that the HCDR maxed out the 282, and the SC didn't bring much more to the party, you've expressed that the SCDR really works great with your 252.

In fact, I recall you stating that the 252 is an better pre amp than the 282, when combined with the SCDR.

Is it safe to say, with your own personal experience, that the better amp (252), is more enjoyable than the 282 ?

@ Adam, 282, 252, next stop 552, and it can controll a 200, 250, 300, and even an 500!

The 500 Club, Wow!

Allante93!

The exchanges in this thread are certainly interesting! Although Allante93 may not have the experience with some of the preamps concerned (252, 552), he has a certain dexterity to tie in all the details, experiences from other folks which actually showed some correlation. In other words, it's a playing of words.

Another interesting point is a 282 owner may be interested to upgrade to the 252 after all the talk on the superiority of the latter, but a remark on the 552 rendering the 252 to sound somewhat broken(well, in relative terms), that may dampen the spirits. Not exactly a criticism of the 252 as it is still "better" than the 282.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

 

I was wondering - I just thought I ought to add my perspective on my personal experiences  in case some poor peeps were still following the thread

 

I'm still reading...

Like you Simon, I found that 282 +SCDR became too tiring, too hi-fi like. I like what 252 brought to the party.
Now of course 552 is starting to tempt me....

Question: have you heard or run 552 with NAP 250? Or another way to put the question: if I move to 552, should I also start planning upgrading the power amp from say NAP250DR to NAP300DR?

Adam

Well, you only live once ..

Allante93 posted:

@ Adam, 282, 252, next stop 552, and it can controll a 200, 250, 300, and even an 500!

The 500 Club, Wow!

 

Hmmmm.... I may have to change my speakers at some stage... Not sure if Nigel B will let me though 

After all we have our own club - 'Monitor Audio with Naim Club'....

ryder. posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

 

I was wondering - I just thought I ought to add my perspective on my personal experiences  in case some poor peeps were still following the thread

 

I'm still reading...

Like you Simon, I found that 282 +SCDR became too tiring, too hi-fi like. I like what 252 brought to the party.
Now of course 552 is starting to tempt me....

Question: have you heard or run 552 with NAP 250? Or another way to put the question: if I move to 552, should I also start planning upgrading the power amp from say NAP250DR to NAP300DR?

Adam

Well, you only live once ..

Thanks Ryder. That's what I really wanted to read now
Well... Knowing my infinite curiosity - will plan some interesting demos in 2017.
I wonder how much those kidneys sell for nowadays....

Adam Zielinski posted:

Allante93 posted:

@ Adam, 282, 252, next stop 552, and it can controll a 200, 250, 300, and even an 500!

The 500 Club, Wow!

 

Hmmmm.... I may have to change my speakers at some stage... Not sure if Nigel B will let me though 

After all we have our own club - 'Monitor Audio with Naim Club'....

Now that's the Adam I know, Naim Audio Controll, and the Amps can upset the Room, and Speakers ! 

No experience  when comparing Naim, but 40 years of Hi Fi Experience. 

One doesn't need a 500 watt amp in a Bath Room! 

ryder. posted:

The exchanges in this thread are certainly interesting! Although Allante93 may not have the experience with some of the preamps concerned (252, 552), he has a certain dexterity to tie in all the details, experiences from other folks which actually showed some correlation. In other words, it's a playing of words.

Another interesting point is a 282 owner may be interested to upgrade to the 252 after all the talk on the superiority of the latter, but a remark on the 552 rendering the 252 to sound somewhat broken(well, in relative terms), that may dampen the spirits. Not exactly a criticism of the 252 as it is still "better" than the 282.

 

With 40 years of experience in Hi Fi, it's the System as a whole!

Which can differ from one gent to another depending on the most important factor, the Room.

Play on words, No, just the Plain Simple Truth!

How does one demo, nice post, DayJay nailed it!

And guess what, once one have decided which components work best in his Environment, that's the Best for him. The Better Amp, Better Pre Amp, Better Speakers, etc....

Hence, more enjoyable for his personal environment !

Its nice to be able to own two different Systems, two different rooms, and two different Brands.

Helps keep one grounded, and open to different types of presentations offered by different Manufactures!

Example:

Primare Pre 30/ Arcam Mono Blocks/ Vienna Acoustics Baby Grands

Different Presentation than:

282/3 x 250/Briks, which was different from Karin/Linn X0/ Lk 280s/Briks

Hard wood floors vs Carpeted Area, Open Room Vs Rectangular Room.

But I must confess, I'm glad that the availability to demo Naim components isn''t readily available for me!

I just jumped in Raw, it will be two years in the World of Naim this January !

Cdx2/HCDR/3 x 250/ Briks were left over from Linn!

17K all 2nd hand USD, I wouldn't dare tell my relatives, they would think I've gone bonkers!

Thanks to DB, Simon, Frank, HH, and a host of others!

The Forum is Great, what else would I do, Just keep it Civil!

Allante93!

Do not discount the importance of the source in the perception of a 282/SC. While some have not found this as musical as a plain HC, the matching with the voicing of the source will certainly change how people feel about this combination. I found the 282/SCDR to be significantly more musical than a lone HCDR. But then again, I'm not using a CDX2 or an nDAC but an NDX/XPSDR which is one of Naim's more laid back sounding sources.

That said, I think the 252 is better. Just that the 282/SC in the right system is, IMHO, fantastic and could totally live with it as my last ever preamp.

MDS posted:

So, I'm not saying the 252 is inferior to the 282. What I am saying is that I much preferred the 282 when playing rock music.   

Mike

Mike -

I'd never argue with someone's preference.  Just saying that in my experience I've never preferred, or run a dem where someone preferred, a 282 to a 252. 

That said, the source has to be up to it - anything less than CDS3/equivalent LP12 is rather missing the point with a 252. 

Adam, to your questions and more. The 252 is designed and can only be used with the SuperCap. So a 252 means it obviously has a SuperCap, like the 552  has a 552PS.

Do I find my 252 more enjoyable than my 282? Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have changed it. 

Did I find the 252 upset my system balance? Yes I did somewhat. The 252 appears more wideband than the 282. Bass for example appears to go deeper and more resolving. It started to encourage my speakers to slightly rumble on some tracks like disc rumble. There might have been a room  resonance around 30Hz or below ... Not at all apparent with the 282, but has resulted in me moving speakers about and adjusting stands. Perhaps only apparent on older more acoustic recordings where no low shelf filtering is used in mastering... However the 252 really is that transparent.

Have I listened to a 552 on my 250? No I have only listened to the 552 on 300 and 500 setups. From memory Richard Dane I think runs or ran his 552 into a 250.. Need to check with him however .

S

The NAC252 asks more of the source and the overall setup of the system too. By comparison the NAC282 is far more forgiving here.  When you move to a better pre-amp and it's a double-edged sword; you hear more going on but it's also not unusual to suddenly hear a problem somewhere in the source or setup that was previously masked.

Simon, I have used a NAP500, NAP250.2, CB NAP250, NAP160, NAP150x, NAP140 (upgraded 110), and a NAP110 with the NAC552.  There's not a single bad combination in there - I reckon the NAC552 has managed to get the best from each and every one of them.  At the moment I have my serviced NAP160 driving the SL2s and it's lovely.  

One thing I have found about the regulated amps though; once they start to go into decline, it's a very steep drop in performance compared to the unregulated amps.  First thing you notice is that they start to sound a bit flat, a bit "slow", a bit ordinary.  It just gets worse from there.  So, whether it's an original NAP250, NAP135s, or one of the later regulated amps, the 8 year service interval is a must in my opinion, whereas with the unregulated amps you can get away with stretching service intervals far longer before serious performance degradation sets in.  

282 is as good as it gets before the 552. The 252 is more of a sideways move ime and a s/h 552 makes more sense as it is a significant improvement over both the 282 and 252.

Simon, Richard - thank you. Food for tought.

Adam

Allante93 posted:

ryder. posted:

The exchanges in this thread are certainly interesting! Although Allante93 may not have the experience with some of the preamps concerned (252, 552), he has a certain dexterity to tie in all the details, experiences from other folks which actually showed some correlation. In other words, it's a playing of words.

Another interesting point is a 282 owner may be interested to upgrade to the 252 after all the talk on the superiority of the latter, but a remark on the 552 rendering the 252 to sound somewhat broken(well, in relative terms), that may dampen the spirits. Not exactly a criticism of the 252 as it is still "better" than the 282.

Thanks to DB, Simon, Frank, HH, and a host of others!

The Forum is Great, what else would I do, Just keep it Civil!

Allante93!

Thanks Adam, for reminding me to show gratitude, to those who have enlightened me ! 

DB, Simon, Frank, HH, and a Host of Others, I forgot the Orchestor, Mr Richard Dane, and J.N, you have a certain quality of keeping it real.

Posted by J.N:

282/SCDR/250DR is as good as it gets, until 552 territory. 

@  Ryder, am I clever, and  a play on words ?

No !

Just a good source of Information.

 In closing, I been throwing it out there on a number of post, and Mr Richard Dane, just responded.

 The 2007 CES debuts Naims Reference CDP!

CD555/282/Snaxo/250s/DBLs

Perhaps, the forgiveness of the 282, for the Active Setup!

In the end, Harmony is restored, and a consensus, the 282 is an Cracker!

Out!

Allante93!

Adam Zielinski posted:

Allante93 posted:

@ Adam, 282, 252, next stop 552, and it can controll a 200, 250, 300, and even an 500!

The 500 Club, Wow!

 

Hmmmm.... I may have to change my speakers at some stage... Not sure if Nigel B will let me though 

After all we have our own club - 'Monitor Audio with Naim Club'....

Just let me know how the 552 sounds with the 250DR and MA GX300s before you abandon the club and leave me it's one and only member.

nigelb posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Allante93 posted:

@ Adam, 282, 252, next stop 552, and it can controll a 200, 250, 300, and even an 500!

The 500 Club, Wow!

 

Hmmmm.... I may have to change my speakers at some stage... Not sure if Nigel B will let me though 

After all we have our own club - 'Monitor Audio with Naim Club'....

Just let me know how the 552 sounds with the 250DR and MA GX300s before you abandon the club and leave me it's one and only member.

I was just teasing you Nigel 

I actually like how they sound. If anything I'm tempted to try the new MA Platinum II... But there is absolutely no rush.

Adam Zielinski poste

Adam Zielinski posted:

Allante93 posted:

@ Adam, 282, 252, next stop 552, and it can controll a 200, 250, 300, and even an 500!

The 500 Club, Wow!

I was just teasing you Nigel 

I actually like how they sound. If anything I'm tempted to try the new MA Platinum II... But there is absolutely no rush.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it !

Just tinker with that 252, you'll be alright.

You know my MO, the American with no hands on experience, but a good source of Information!

The two edged Sword, more revealing, for better, or worst!

Allante93!

Adam Zielinski posted:

nigelb posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Allante93 posted:

@ Adam, 282, 252, next stop 552, and it can controll a 200, 250, 300, and even an 500!

The 500 Club, Wow!

 

Hmmmm.... I may have to change my speakers at some stage... Not sure if Nigel B will let me though 

After all we have our own club - 'Monitor Audio with Naim Club'....

Just let me know how the 552 sounds with the 250DR and MA GX300s before you abandon the club and leave me it's one and only member.

I was just teasing you Nigel 

I actually like how they sound. If anything I'm tempted to try the new MA Platinum II... But there is absolutely no rush.

I should hope there is no rush, those Vertere links will hardly be run in yet.

By the way, I too have been toying with the idea of a 552 with my trusty 250DR for some time. I know the 552 deserves a 300 or 500 but the 250DR is soooo good, it might just work. I have always been a source first kind of bloke (OK a 552 is not a source component but we both have NDSs and there is no where to go with a streamer source as yet) and every time I have heard one, I have been very impressed. I have always had the feeling that the pre amp is the heart and soul of any system and I have had some of the biggest SQ gains when I have upgraded my pre amp.

The GX 300s are superb and I have clearly heard the sonic gains of every upgrade over the last few years with these underrated speakers. But if a 552 does arrive in either of our households, it may (just may) be time to put them into retirement. A tear just rolled down my face.

Keep us informed old chap.