Effect of power-line on Supernait 2

As a rule, a man's a fool.
When it's hot, he wants it cool;
when it's cool, he wants it hot;
always wanting what it's not!

P.S. I'm with HH on the Frank Cooper's, but the Muscovado variant in my case.

P.P.S. I'm now with HH on the NAC-N 272 front as well.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'm glad it's not just me. The Forum seems to be really dumbing down at the moment, with less intelligent debate and more bland question asking. Not just 'do I keep my powerline' but 'what order do I stack my three items in?', 'which nas should I buy?' and so forth. Then you get people asking for advice when they have no intention of following it and have clearly decided what to do in the first place. So you've got people who don't need advice asking for it, and people who would benefit from advice ignoring it. All part of life's rich pageant I suppose, but somewhat tedious. Can people not do some initial research and come to the table with at least some knowledge? You seem to get more of 'I just don't understand this, please help me as you would a five year old?'  You'd think that if people had enough money to buy Naim they'd have at least a modicum of intelligence. 

 

Since when was there a definitive positive correlation between dosh and intelligence?!?

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In defence of some people, A proportion of those interested in music reproduction have little understanding of anything to do with computer-related matters, and some such people find even reading around the subject even more bewildering, so questions regarding, for example, choice of NAS etc directed to a forum where others have successfully set them up and used them would seem entirely reasonable.  Also it doesn't seem unreasonable for someone with little or no knowledge to come to a forum of experienced people and ask even what seem to be quite dumb questions, maybe because they are not sure where otherwise to do any background research (though they might save their own and others' time first searching the forum to see if the same question has already been answered), or because in their recognition of limited knowledge they simply want reassurance that they'e understood things correctly.

However I agree it seems odd that some people having asked for advice seem to keep asking over and over as if simply not liking the unanimous response of forumites, suggesting they have a predetermined position and are simply wanting someone to say the 'right' thing so they can go ahead 'justified'.  

Hungryhalibut posted:

Ah, Kans. Marvellous speakers. Though if I had decided on them, I'd be looking at an 82/Hicap/250 olive setup, rather than a Supernait 2. And if the remote wasn't important, a 72 would be a cheaper option. There's a lot to be said for contemporaneous setups, so Supernait/PMCs. 

Thanks, will look into this advice! One potenital problem is that I am looking for an amp with a sub out or pre out to connect my anti mode to my Naim N-sub and I have not seen any vintage amplifier with this output, or am I mistaken?

Adam Zielinski posted:

badlands posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Keep your PowerLine. When I added one to my SN2 it helped it to 'settle down'.

 

 

Could you explain what you mean by "settle down"?  I don't want to assume your phrasing , it always gets me in trouble!

What I meant is that the sound stage is more grounded, more lower frequencies are pronouced, music seesm to flow rather than just play out of the speakers...

Useful info, Adam. Thanks.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Ah, Kans. Marvellous speakers. Though if I had decided on them, I'd be looking at an 82/Hicap/250 olive setup, rather than a Supernait 2. And if the remote wasn't important, a 72 would be a cheaper option. There's a lot to be said for contemporaneous setups, so Supernait/PMCs. 

Thanks, will look into this advice! One potenital problem is that I am looking for an amp with a sub out or pre out to connect my anti mode to my Naim N-sub and I have not seen any Naim vintage amplifier with this output, or am I mistaken?

hifinerdwannabe posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Ah, Kans. Marvellous speakers. Though if I had decided on them, I'd be looking at an 82/Hicap/250 olive setup, rather than a Supernait 2. And if the remote wasn't important, a 72 would be a cheaper option. There's a lot to be said for contemporaneous setups, so Supernait/PMCs. 

Thanks, will look into this advice! One potenital problem is that I am looking for an amp with a sub out or pre out to connect my anti mode to my Naim N-sub and I have not seen any Naim vintage amplifier with this output, or am I mistaken?

How important is the Anti-Mode thing? The traditional way to run an N-Sub is from the speaker terminals to the high level input, which many feel gives better sound than using the pre-out or sub-out from a Superuniti or Supernait. I'm suspicious that the Anti-Mode might degrade your sound quality, so you don't get the full benefit of the amp upgrade you're planning, but I could be wrong. 

You can take a low level sub feed from the Hicap, you just need the proper lead. But if you have an nSub you'd be better with nSats rather than Kans, as they are literally made for each other. When I had an nSub Naim advised me that the low level sub output from the 122x (which is what I used at the time) was the best connection, and better than taking a high level signal from the speakers. 

Thanks for the advice! I only have the anti mode because of base problems but I haven't tried the sub with speaker terminals which I might try! I hace also auditioned the n-sats but I actually preferred the Kans.

hifinerdwannabe posted:

I have a SU with a power-line which I have just put out for sale and instead I intend to buy a SN2 + a chord DAC (probably a 2qute) and I wonder if I should keep the power-line for the SN2? I have heard that the power-line will be mostly efficient with the scource and not do much for the amplification. Has anyone tried this with the SN2 and is there a significant sq-improvement?

I have 4 power lines on my system now.  The first one i put on my HCDR and it had a nice impact.  Second went on my SN2 again the impact appeared to make the power line a good value.  The other two on my NDX and DAC have minimal impact AFAICT.  Perhaps due to the fact my NDX is a transport only and my DAC isn't a Naim.

Oh i just wanted to add something.  The best value tweak I have purchased were the Stillpoins.  I put them under all my components and it really quite obviously made the entire system sound much better focused.

Kevin Richardson posted:

I have 4 power lines on my system now.  The first one i put on my HCDR and it had a nice impact.  Second went on my SN2 again the impact appeared to make the power line a good value.  The other two on my NDX and DAC have minimal impact AFAICT.  Perhaps due to the fact my NDX is a transport only and my DAC isn't a Naim.

 

I have a solution - to get the best out of your 4th PowerLine you obviously need a NAIM dac

On a serious note - I tried many different power supply leads in my both systems. This proved to be an expensive adventure, as I ended up swaping all of them for PowerLines. 

hifinerdwannabe posted:

Thanks for the advice! I only have the anti mode because of base problems but I haven't tried the sub with speaker terminals which I might try!

It's an easy thing to try, just get any cheap thin speaker cable and solder it into the same banana plugs you're already using at the speaker end. Connect it to the N-Sub high level input with more bananas, and see what happens.

If you do this, you'll need to try it after you've upgraded your amp, as a better one will let through more of everything, including bass, so what sounds just right with your SU might be too much with an 82/250 or a Supernait. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

You can take a low level sub feed from the Hicap, you just need the proper lead. But if you have an nSub you'd be better with nSats rather than Kans, as they are literally made for each other. When I had an nSub Naim advised me that the low level sub output from the 122x (which is what I used at the time) was the best connection, and better than taking a high level signal from the speakers. 

Interesting.......the advice I had from Naim was that the high level connection was generally better, which is also what the N-Sub manual says. I was using it with my SU at the time, which also has a sub-out. Maybe the 122 has special talents in this department!

Adam Zielinski posted:

On a serious note - I tried many different power supply leads in my both systems. This proved to be an expensive adventure, as I ended up swaping all of them for PowerLines. 

How much difference a powerline might make is highly likely to vary from hifi unit to unit as each will have different sensitivity to mains quality. Also will depend on the cables they are replacing. And may depend on the mains supply itself. So reported differences between different installations is inevitable. They shouldn't make things worse, but there's no guarantee they'll make any audible difference for the better.

Kevin Richardson posted:

Oh i just wanted to add something.  The best value tweak I have purchased were the Stillpoins.  I put them under all my components and it really quite obviously made the entire system sound much better focused.

Kevin,

When I saw your affirmation for the Stillpoints I immediately went to your system profile to see what rack you're using. I found a well detailed description of all three of your systems including PLs and ICs, but no mention of racking. Please indulge me for system 1,  just for my own curiosity. Thanks.

Hungryhalibut posted:

The Forum seems to be really dumbing down at the moment, with less intelligent debate and more bland question asking. Then you get people asking for advice when they have no intention of following it and have clearly decided what to do in the first place. So you've got people who don't need advice asking for it, and people who would benefit from advice ignoring it. All part of life's rich pageant I suppose, but somewhat tedious. Can people not do some initial research and come to the table with at least some knowledge? You seem to get more of 'I just don't understand this, please help me as you would a five year old?'  You'd think that if people had enough money to buy Naim they'd have at least a modicum of intelligence. 

I can't fault anyone for asking a genuine question here, and who's to judge their forthrightness? Often folks are simply airing out their choices, looking for a rebound, and take responses from there. In the case of the OP we've seen that his query resulted from a statement made by a dealer - a presumptive authority on the matter from his perspective.

What irks me more than HH's tribulations is when someone posits A versus B and members chime in with C, D, and E, sometimes even F and G because that's where they're at. The post runs amok and ultimately bears little resemblance to the OP. The thread decays, the usual players get their redundant say for their personal favorites, and the OP can be left scratching his or her head.

For my part I feel It'd serve the forum well for responders to stay on topic rather than diverge from or criticize the OPs. If you find it tedious, then FFS why reply? Let the thread die and send someone off to do their initial research.

Actually I think if a thread sometimes drifts from the original OP topic if there is a natural reason to do so it can make the thread and forum more interesting and lively and adds colour from all the members.. if all the responses stay rigidly on topic from the OP the the forum would becomes bland and dull, and the forum really would take on the form of a support bullet in board and kill the community spirit. The OP in my view should be a stimulus, not neccessarily define just a specific tight topic description or question that limits the ensuing thread.

The forum has been at its most enjoyable when threads evolve and invoke debate on related but sometimes diverging  topics.

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

 

The forum has been at its most enjoyable when threads evolve and invoke debate on related but sometimes diverging  topics.

Indeed. Some take the forum far too seriously. It's only a forum, after all...

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'm glad it's not just me. The Forum seems to be really dumbing down at the moment, with less intelligent debate and more bland question asking. Not just 'do I keep my powerline' but 'what order do I stack my three items in?', 'which nas should I buy?' and so forth. Then you get people asking for advice when they have no intention of following it and have clearly decided what to do in the first place. So you've got people who don't need advice asking for it, and people who would benefit from advice ignoring it. All part of life's rich pageant I suppose, but somewhat tedious. Can people not do some initial research and come to the table with at least some knowledge? You seem to get more of 'I just don't understand this, please help me as you would a five year old?'  You'd think that if people had enough money to buy Naim they'd have at least a modicum of intelligence. 

Anyway, I've got that off my chest, and I'm not applying anything to the OP, but this stuff has become rather irritating lately. Now, should I have a cup of coffee, or a cup of tea? Help!

 

What a load of pretentious elitest nonsense. It amazes me that some people think that owning expensive HiFi somehow requires intelligence,  what is clever about spending thousands of pounds on some speaker cable some very intelligent people would consider that daft,  what does take a level of intelligence however is humility. 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Actually I think if a thread sometimes drifts from the original OP topic ....

Drifts? So I guess you're okay when a poster asks 'which CDP' and those that may have never owned a CDP jump in about the virtues of streaming? It goes from there....

Just my own pet peeve. No harm, and sure, let the threads wander as they will. I'm one who prefers folks that stay on topic with relevant experience. A forum has an informational side, but certainly social as well.

So where is this thread at now with regard to the OP? Spirited ambiguity no doubt, and I am a guilty contributor. Call it divergent evolution

Bob, please cut HH a little slack at the moment, through no fault of his own, he currently has a fractured skull and is quite unwell.

Thanks.

Bob the Builder posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'm glad it's not just me. The Forum seems to be really dumbing down at the moment, with less intelligent debate and more bland question asking. Not just 'do I keep my powerline' but 'what order do I stack my three items in?', 'which nas should I buy?' and so forth. Then you get people asking for advice when they have no intention of following it and have clearly decided what to do in the first place. So you've got people who don't need advice asking for it, and people who would benefit from advice ignoring it. All part of life's rich pageant I suppose, but somewhat tedious. Can people not do some initial research and come to the table with at least some knowledge? You seem to get more of 'I just don't understand this, please help me as you would a five year old?'  You'd think that if people had enough money to buy Naim they'd have at least a modicum of intelligence. 

Anyway, I've got that off my chest, and I'm not applying anything to the OP, but this stuff has become rather irritating lately. Now, should I have a cup of coffee, or a cup of tea? Help!

What a load of pretentious elitest nonsense. It amazes me that some people think that owning expensive HiFi somehow requires intelligence,  what is clever about spending thousands of pounds on some speaker cable some very intelligent people would consider that daft,  what does take a level of intelligence however is humility. 

Huge posted:

Bob, please cut HH a little slack at the moment, through no fault of his own, he currently has a fractured skull and is quite unwell.

Bob +1.

Huge - apparently well enough to post and focus attention here versus give it a rest and heal? Slack cut, but there's a level of consistency to be read.

Huge posted:

Bob, please cut HH a little slack at the moment, through no fault of his own, he currently has a fractured skull and is quite unwell.

Thanks.

I am very sorry for HH and wish him a speedy recovery but It was not a meant as a personal attack on HH just a forthright opinion based on HH's own forthright opinion and I'm sure a man of his age and experience will (if indeed he did take it personally) supply his own reply.

Bob the Builder posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'm glad it's not just me. The Forum seems to be really dumbing down at the moment, with less intelligent debate and more bland question asking. Not just 'do I keep my powerline' but 'what order do I stack my three items in?', 'which nas should I buy?' and so forth. Then you get people asking for advice when they have no intention of following it and have clearly decided what to do in the first place. So you've got people who don't need advice asking for it, and people who would benefit from advice ignoring it. All part of life's rich pageant I suppose, but somewhat tedious. Can people not do some initial research and come to the table with at least some knowledge? You seem to get more of 'I just don't understand this, please help me as you would a five year old?'  You'd think that if people had enough money to buy Naim they'd have at least a modicum of intelligence. 

Anyway, I've got that off my chest, and I'm not applying anything to the OP, but this stuff has become rather irritating lately. Now, should I have a cup of coffee, or a cup of tea? Help!

 

What a load of pretentious elitest nonsense. It amazes me that some people think that owning expensive HiFi somehow requires intelligence,  what is clever about spending thousands of pounds on some speaker cable some very intelligent people would consider that daft,  what does take a level of intelligence however is humility. 

It's not pretentious or elitist in any way whatsoever. It's just an observation, triggered by a few similar posts recently. I only said that you'd expect people to have a modicum of intelligence, not be a member of Mensa. The said modicum is required not to buy the equipment itself, which of course any fool can manage, but to be able to generate the income to pay for the equipment. 

A good number of people liked my post, far more than dislike it. In my view this sort of debate is far more interesting than endless questions about which box to plug a Powerline into or whether an ND5XS should be placed above or below a Nait XS, both of which can be decided on by their owner. As has been said previously, posters seem increasingly incapable of making their own decisions, or making a little effort to at least start from a point of some knowledge so that they can assess whether the advice they are being given is at least vaguely sensible. 

The only impact my fractured skull has is to give me too much time on my hands because I'm signed off from work. I certainly don't want sympathy or to be cut any slack. If people think I'm talking nonsense I'm quite happy for them to say so, though I would rather not be called pretentious or elitist, though on reflection, maybe you are right. One could be a lot of worse things. 

A - To the OP: A PowerLine is usually effective on anything. Mostly, in my experience, on mechanisms and on a NaitXS. Don't ask me why. What is meant with effective, though, brings us back to HH's first reply.

B - I think that these discussions may allow Nigel some distraction from headache and worries, and also a degree of freedom, in getting things 'off his chest', as he wrote; not that he is usually too self-restrained, but being convalescent from such a dreadful experience is undoubtedly helpful in separating what counts from what is b*****it. I think that if he feels too tired to post, he's free to have rest and close the computer. So, no need to nurse him..

C - What the forums seems to me, sometimes lately, is a chic club or a chic restaurant where certain old members look at newcomers with some diffidence, observing what they order, how they hold the cutlery, smiling at their naiveties of late-comers. There are those who help, those who turn their heads in despise, those who ironise. How many Tom Bransons have come here shyly or garrulously and met with as many Mr Carsons?

D - So, to contribute serenely to an interesting discussion, here's how I 'chose' my last system. There was a NAP200DR for sale. I lost the auction for, say, €30. Then the winner withdrew, and the seller contacted me offering to sell at my last offer. It was a very good price, I bought it. The unit is from late 2015, mint. I don't especially like the 250, and the 300 is out of my horizon, so no choice actually. A member of this forum contacted me offering a pair of N-Sats: could I say no? I have tried anything, they're still my darlings. A lovely NAC282, at an appealing price. I've already had a 202, and 252 is out of my scope. So, again no real choice. A friend will sell his CDX2 to me; I've had a CDS3, the CDX2 is well balanced. CD555 will always be out of reach. So, I didn't actually choose anything. I simply set the parameters, and things came by themselves.

(I know that the red capitals are annoying, Mr Pedantic is back.)

M.