Surely it's only digits?

Indeed Andarkian, any closed system producing an audible output from a digital signal stream input such as streamer will produce differeing qualities of the audio depending on the digital values and its transport stream clock precision... whether it be SPDIF, TCP over Ethernet or USB.

And digital representations can these days consist of many encodings types of voltage, radio carrier or light etc .. including phase encoding methods , Manchester encodings, lossless compression encoding etc... having  simply a high voltage and low voltage to represent original binary abstraction values is error prone and inefficient in transmission... so an abstracted digital value  can itself be abstracted further to optimally transport and/or store it. As long as the information is retained it can be abstracted to support the environment such as compression, speed, error robustness... and as I referred to earlier this is called Information Entropy.

 But the key thing, is that when you convert this signal into a signal you can sense, i.e. A sound you can hear, or an image you can see, you can start to see/hear  artefacts from the translation system.. especially when it is a closed system...as this comes across as quite unnatural to our brains and so tends to be noticeable .. so it's not suprising streamers sound different and digital encoding types and transport types sound different... hence the preference of WAV with Naim and the apparent popularity of Melco servers.

Simon

I am shortening the signal length and buying a Devialet 250 Pro.

 

Good choice. Consider fronting it with a Melco server via USB.

james n posted:

I am shortening the signal length and buying a Devialet 250 Pro.

 

Good choice. Consider fronting it with a Melco server via USB.

It was fronted with an Aurender server. TBH I listened to it using Tidal alone.

Another good choice - anyway enjoy. Great amp. 

james n posted:

I am shortening the signal length and buying a Devialet 250 Pro.

 

Good choice. Consider fronting it with a Melco server via USB.

If bits are just bits, then the Melco has no purpose - just use a cheap NAS and your broadband router, you don't even need a switch or any RFI protection.

andarkian posted: I have given up the argument and on aesthetic, AV requirements, my wife's hatred of boxes and cables as well as sound quality, I am shortening the signal length and buying a Devialet 250 Pro.

This is something I would seriously consider if/when aesthetics (including room size) forced me to further downsize.  It's a non-issue for me now, and thus I've not bothered bringing home a Devialet on loan to 'try,' as it's too much trouble to disconnect/reconnect everything, esp. on a Fraim with those glass shelves that slide all over the place! Is there a better true OneBox solution?

The Melco looks nice - and quite colourful - but I don't get what embroidery machines have to do with data protocols.

The whole thing strikes me as a load of bobbins.

I like it, but it's obvious isn't it?

It weaves the threads of the music together, and you don't want an unembroidered sound do you?

Now that the noise here has died down, I want to let you know that the Melco has made a significant improvement to my system, whatever the reason. Sure, bad recordings sound worse, but the good ones really shine. For example, Pentangle's 'Basket of Light' has been a favourite album of mine for more than 45 years, and last night I heard it as though for the first time.  All I was doing was playing it from the Unitiserve via the Melco directly connected to the NDS. I expect it will sound better again when I play it from the Melco's own disc drive. I've not yet figured out how I will deal with my WAV library from the US, but I intend tonight to copy 'Basket of Light' into it, just to see whether the job of work necessary to transfer it all in is worth it. And you may all be as sceptical as you like, but I'm the one who's got a whole new library, whatever the reason!

Good stuff David. Have you seen the guide on the Melco support page regarding exporting US music to the internal Melco drives - this should give you all the info you need. If you get stuck Alan Ainslie at Melco is extremely helpful. 

James

David, we feel the same. The Melco is a very good sounding piece of electronics. After close to one month I have stopped to listen to CDs. I also sign up on James recommendation. Any question do not hesitate to contact Alan. Very helpful. I understood that he is a retired Naim employee now working for Melco.

My Melco is connected to a switch on one side and the NDS on the other side.

Enjoy as I am. Now listening to Leonard Cohen through Tidal.

Gunnar

Again, now the furore has died down, would anyone with a Melco care to put a WAVE (*.wav) file on a USB stick and compare that to the same file played via the Melco?
(And don't forget to disconnect the network and digital input cables from the streamer/DAC to get a valid test.)

I'd expect them to sound the same (or very nearly so), thus giving some support to the claims that the Melco gives 'optimal data integrity', removes the 'possibility of interference and noise' and 'eliminates any possibility of data jitter at source'.  It would at least give strong support to the idea that their claims are met to the extent necessary for high end audio equipment, even if they're not completely met scientifically; and it's a simple test.

This isn't a definitive test (that would need a load of electrical test gear), but it would still prove that their claims are justified in terms of their effect on high end audio equipment; and to some extent that's more important than proving the claims scientifically.

Huge, do you mean playing it from the NDS USB connector?

Yes, that's exactly right.

james n posted:

Good stuff David. Have you seen the guide on the Melco support page regarding exporting US music to the internal Melco drives - this should give you all the info you need. If you get stuck Alan Ainslie at Melco is extremely helpful. 

James

I have seen a guide on how to set up the US to rip to the Melco directly, but not on how to export an existing US library.

Ah apologies David i didn't realise it just covered ripping only - i'd not really looked at it in depth as i've not had to do that on mine.

I'm sure someone can help (or just contact Alan for advice)

I'd make sure that you convert the UnitiServe WAV rips to FLAC before putting them on the Melco, because if it's like a nas the tracks won't end up in albums if you just copy them as WAV. Once converted, you can use the US's backup facility, again assuming that the Melco acts like a nas. If not, backup to a nas and then copy to the Melco from the nas. 

HH, how does one convert the WAV rips to FLAC? 

David O'Higgins posted:

HH, how does one convert the WAV rips to FLAC? 

In a UnitiServe?

by changing a ripping format from WAV to FLAC. This will automatically start a conversion process.

Huge and David,

I just did an unprofessional and non scientific sound comparison between NDS from USB and NDS from Melco N1Z.

Instead of wav I used dsf. Do not have wav on USB.  

We listened several times to two different types of music. First Johan Brouwer in Vaudry and its 2^nd track. There after Stockholm Cathedral Choir & Gustaf Sjökvist in Now the Green Blade Riseth also 2^nd track.

Bought both from Highresaudio and downloaded in to different way -to an usb key through my PC as well as a download from Highresaudio -direct into the Melco. So the Melcos have not touched an USB nor a PC. Melco does that that type of storing automatically.

My wife who is not an audiophile, far from, but has part from a lot of good things also a good ear. After each round she each time picked up the Melco as the preferred one. She used the word “small difference but more musical”. I felt the same.

For sure it can depend on a lot of thing for example my PC and ………….you guys know better than me.

I did not disconnect any cable when listning. Felt that was too complicated.

Gunnar

Adam Zielinski posted:

David O'Higgins posted:

HH, how does one convert the WAV rips to FLAC? 

In a UnitiServe?

by changing a ripping format from WAV to FLAC. This will automatically start a conversion process.

There are two options. One is to convert the existing files, the other is to change the ripping format for new files. Adam mentions the latter, but it's the former you need. You do it in the DTC. Go to the top of the file tree in the library, right click and you'll see a convert option. Hit that and it will trundle away. It'll take a couple of days if you have 2,000 albums. Some will get missed, but sort them out later with dbpoweramp. 

Hi Gunnar,

Unfortunately that only indicates that the NDS performs less well when it has RFI and other electrical effects from both the Melco and the processing needed to read a file via USB.  To remove the possibility that these will interact is why it's necessary to remove other digital connection when testing with USB.

David O'Higgins posted:

james n posted:

Good stuff David. Have you seen the guide on the Melco support page regarding exporting US music to the internal Melco drives - this should give you all the info you need. If you get stuck Alan Ainslie at Melco is extremely helpful. 

James

I have seen a guide on how to set up the US to rip to the Melco directly, but not on how to export an existing US library.

Hi David,

I would contact Melco. I spoke Alan Ainslie at the Bristol show and he told m (I think) that you use Userve functionality to back up the store to the Melco. He also told me that the Naim metadata would be presented correctly by the Melco.

Keith

I'm not sure I'd trust this. Even if the Melco can play the US rips happily, if you then back up the Melco to a nas and the Melco conks out, the rips will very likely still be unplayable on the nas. I'd still convert on the US and then backup to the Melco. This way is far less risky. Imagine having 20,000 tracks that need to be reassembled into albums using a metadata editor.