300 DR upgrade or 500

kuma posted:

Bryce Curdy posted:

Sorry, didn't make myself clear.

Source is CD555.  (I also have a Rega Planar 3 for a smallish vinyl collection.)

Then you NEED a 500.

I had a 552/300 before and I was amased when a 500 transformed a performance of the CD555.

I have not heard a 300DR but somehow I very much doubt it'll sound like a *mini* 500.

The intro of a 500DR devalued a standard used 500 so perhaps waiting for a gently used 500 might be the way to go. and later if the funds allow, DR it.

Totally agree...the 300-500 is the single biggest upgrade between any 'next model up' within the Naim line. I would say there is a bigger and more fundamental improvement going from a 300 to a 500, then there is leapfrogging from a 110 to a 300. Having owned 110, 140, 250, 135, 300 and 500, as well as trying out a 150 and 180 in my system, the 500 is in an entirely different and much more authoritative than any of its lessers. 

In the same room with the identical equipment (552 etc) I compared a 500 driven set of Tukans with DBLs driven by a 250. The results may quite surprise you. 

Allante93 posted:

Allante93 posted:

Bryce Curdy posted:

I don't NEED a £20k+ Power Amplifier.  Even relative to a very expensive system that has taken me almost 30 years to build up, that is an obscene amount of money for 99.9% of the population.  But I might WANT a second hand one.

MSRP

552 about 20K

CD 555 about 15K

555PS about 6K

Yeah, about 30 years

Only you can decide, and that decision would most likely be based on time and money.

300 DR Upgrade

2nd hand 500

Brand New 500, out of the Question.

Hence, 300 DR Upgrade, or 500!

Either Route, Killer System.

 Enjoy your Music, the Why.

Allante93!

 

Posted by OP:

I think I'd already decided that.  I'd consider the 500 if it was VFM but relative to other upgrades sounds like it's possibly not.  Good to know I'm not missing a trick.

Missed your reply, but you are point on!

300 DR Upgrade.

I've obviously managed to justify a CD555 and a 552 to myself previously so some might be wondering why I'm reluctant to commit to even a SH 500.  I suspect that my financial position is like most on here - lucky enough to be able to indulge myself from time to time but choosing to improve my already excellent Hi Fi system means sacrificing another luxury such as a holiday or new car.

I purchased my 552 in 2004 when from memory it cost around £12k.  RRP is now almost £20k and even after correcting for DR upgrade the cost has increased more relative to my disposable income.  The 552 was regarded as possibly the best Pre Amp in the world at the time and I suspect is a serious contender for the most revered and coveted piece of kit Naim has ever produced.  I don't think the same claims can quite be made about the 500.  I was also lucky enough to receive a substantial backdated pay rise at the time so did not have to worry about affordability.

I upgraded to the CD555 in two stages adding the 555PS to a CDS2 and then adding the head unit which spread the pain.  I was probably more old school than I am now believing 100% in source first.

Hope that makes sense.

Bryce Curdy posted:

Allante93 posted:

 

I've obviously managed to justify a CD555 and a 552 to myself previously so some might be wondering why I'm reluctant to commit to even a SH 500.  I suspect that my financial position is like most on here - lucky enough to be able to indulge myself from time to time but choosing to improve my already excellent Hi Fi system means sacrificing another luxury such as a holiday or new car.

I purchased my 552 in 2004 when from memory it cost around £12k.  RRP is now almost £20k and even after correcting for DR upgrade the cost has increased more relative to my disposable income.  The 552 was regarded as possibly the best Pre Amp in the world at the time and I suspect is a serious contender for the most revered and coveted piece of kit Naim has ever produced.  I don't think the same claims can quite be made about the 500.  I was also lucky enough to receive a substantial backdated pay rise at the time so did not have to worry about affordability.

I upgraded to the CD555 in two stages adding the 555PS to a CDS2 and then adding the head unit which spread the pain.  I was probably more old school than I am now believing 100% in source first.

Hope that makes sense.

A lot of sense, trust me, a many on this Forum can relate to needs and wants. And please don't mention this to SWMBO!

About 30 years for me, and I'm middle of the road Naim.

 Cdx2/HCDR/3 x 250.2s/Briks

One thing for sure, we can't take it with us, so we might as well enjoy!

Allante93!

Edit to post two above - I added 555PS to a CDX2, not a CDS2, before getting CD555 head unit.

As I said in my original reply the cost of the 500 at this time seems to be more than your comfortable with.

Why not audition a 300DR with/out ungraded cables and see if it's to your taste. If not draw a line under it.

I don't think you need any more telling that a 500, DR or not would be superior. You never know one day a 500 may be within your reach.

Bryce Curdy posted:

Edit to post two above - I added 555PS to a CDX2, not a CDS2, before getting CD555 head unit.

I know the CD555 is Naim's Reference CDP, and even at 3rd hand prices,  out of my league.

However, can you recall how significant the 555PS Upgrade was, on the Cdx2 ?

Cdx2/282/HCDR/3 x 250.2/Briks

Allante93!

I purchased an XPS at the time I got the CDX2, so can't answer your question directly.  On a crude 1-10 scale the CDX2/XPS was a 9 compared to the Linn Karik/Numeric it replaced.  The 555PS upgrade from XPS was probably a 5 by which I mean improvement was immediately apparent but not in a picking my jaw off the floor scale.  Bin any possible preconceptions and audition some Chord Sarum cables.  In terms of VFM probably the best upgrade I've done.  Too many people want a box, preferably with a Naim logo, and are reluctant to consider other possibilities.  Try a single power cable on your 282.

Bryce Curdy posted:

I purchased an XPS at the time I got the CDX2, so can't answer your question directly.  On a crude 1-10 scale the CDX2/XPS was a 9 compared to the Linn Karik/Numeric it replaced.  The 555PS upgrade from XPS was probably a 5 by which I mean improvement was immediately apparent but not in a picking my jaw off the floor scale.  Bin any possible preconceptions and audition some Chord Sarum cables.  In terms of VFM probably the best upgrade I've done.  Too many people want a box, preferably with a Naim logo, and are reluctant to consider other possibilities.  Try a single power cable on your 282.

Wow, I was Linn Full Blown Aktiv, Karin/Genki.

But, if I hear you correctly, by pass the Xps, and wait on an pre loved 555PS.

Also, it doesn't haft to be Music, or SL,  perhaps, 2nd hand Chord, Signiture, TA, etc...

Thanks for the Advice.

 Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

Bryce Curdy posted:

I purchased an XPS at the time I got the CDX2, so can't answer your question directly.  On a crude 1-10 scale the CDX2/XPS was a 9 compared to the Linn Karik/Numeric it replaced.  The 555PS upgrade from XPS was probably a 5 by which I mean improvement was immediately apparent but not in a picking my jaw off the floor scale.  Bin any possible preconceptions and audition some Chord Sarum cables.  In terms of VFM probably the best upgrade I've done.  Too many people want a box, preferably with a Naim logo, and are reluctant to consider other possibilities.  Try a single power cable on your 282.

Wow, I was Linn Full Blown Aktiv, Karin/Genki.

But, if I hear you correctly, by pass the Xps, and wait on an pre loved 555PS.

Also, it doesn't haft to be Music, or SL,  perhaps, 2nd hand Chord, Signiture, TA, etc...

Thanks for the Advice.

 Allante93!

I'm not a Linn fan.  Was underwhelmed by the Karik/Numerik and by Kayleigh LSs (my two previous Linn purchases).  Replacing with CDX2/XPS and Sonus Faber Grand Pianos was for me when I first started to think I had a great sounding system (NAC82/NAP180 at the time).

What really rubbed salt in it was when the laser on the Karik packed in and Linn could not replace.  It wasn't long after they stopped selling it.  The best offer they could come up was a small discount against a new Linn CD player that I wasn't interested in.  Thankfully a new to me then dealer came up with a generous price for a CDX2.

Apologies, off topic.

There are three certainties in life:  death, taxes and the joy a NAP500 brings when replacing a 300, driven by a 552  (my experience is with non-DR).

I've subsequently tried replacing the nonDR 500 with two 300DRs - bi-amped...  (had them on dem for a couple of weeks)... despite the assurance from my dealer that twin 300DRs would outshine my nonDR 500, I just didn't hear it. The 300DRs went back and the 500 remains, performing beautifully (into 802 diamonds).

Some folk will advocate the 300 better than the 500 in terms of its warmth etc, however this is not a feeling I would subscribe to, the NAP500 'just does it beautifully'.

So, although the 300DR upgrade may sound attractive and may well be the only financially viable solution, I would strongly suggest you try to find a used, non-DR NAP500, Bryce.  As previous folks have suggested, a used one can occasionally be found at quite a reasonable price these days - well worth hanging on for (after all the 300 isn't a shabby performer meantime, is it?).

Roger

Bryce Curdy posted:

Allante93 posted:

Wow, I was Linn Full Blown Aktiv, Karin/Genki.

But, if I hear you correctly, by pass the Xps, and wait on an pre loved 555PS.

Also, it doesn't haft to be Music, or SL,  perhaps, 2nd hand Chord, Signiture, TA, etc...

Thanks for the Advice.

 Allante93!

I'm not a Linn fan.  Was underwhelmed .......

What really rubbed salt in it was when the laser on the Karik packed in and Linn could not replace.  It wasn't long after they stopped selling it.  The best offer they could come up was a small discount against a new Linn CD player that I wasn't interested in.  Thankfully a new to me then dealer came up with a generous price for a CDX2.

Apologies, off topic.

We forgive you for going off topic, this time, only because it's your post. LOL

But once again, Manufacturers must do what ever it takes, it's a competitive market.

Linn ceased production of it's Reference CD player, at witch point, I off loaded my Genki.

Linn stop servicing their older gear, at which point, I off loaded my Karin Pre Amp, and Linn XO.

Unfortunately, both went out, practically had to give them away.

Hence, I with Naim, a Manufacturer that will Service vintage gear.

However, Naim isn't exempt from Market forces, No longer a Manufacturer of Speakers.

Fortunately, they merged with a Speaker Manufacturer, hopefully the Merger will start to pay dividends.

 See what happens when you go off topic. lol...

Allante93!

I too was in a similar dilemma a few months ago, but instead of upgrading my 300 to 300dr, i bought a used 500 at areasonable price and part exchanged my 300. When funds allow i will get the amp DR'd but it is the best decision i made. The 500 is superb and i am happy to live it with it for the next 3 or 4 years until i have saved the money.

ashrafs posted:

I too was in a similar dilemma a few months ago, but instead of upgrading my 300 to 300dr, i bought a used 500 at areasonable price and part exchanged my 300. When funds allow i will get the amp DR'd but it is the best decision i made. The 500 is superb and i am happy to live it with it for the next 3 or 4 years until i have saved the money.

A tough one, because even the SH two stage upgrade to a 500DR is hugely more costly.  Plus if I just go for the DR upgrade on the 300 I would recoup a fair proportion of the cost trading in if I then went for a 500 or 500DR, new or SH.

I think I've decided to do the following in this order:

Upgrade Stands Unique equipment racks to Quadraspire Reference X for CD555DR/552DR/300(non-DR) 'brains' and Quadraspire SVT for equivalent 'brawn'.  The Fraim fanatics need to stop foaming at the mouth at this point!

Upgrade Chord Sarum Tuned Aray Power Cables and Interconnects to Super Aray.  More gnashing of the teeth.  I'm actually in a position where I'd probably do this and the equipment racks at the same time.

300DR upgrade, for the reasons outlined above.

I'd then look to buy the best loudspeakers with the best cable, saving up for a couple of years if necessary, with the intention that this would be the last pair of LSs I ever bought.

Only then would I consider a 500DR or 500.

.

I'm sure DR versions are a vast improvement, but that doesn't mean to say that non-DRd kit is rubbish. Buying good SH up-gradable and serviceable kit is the backdoor to Naim ownership for those of us on constrained fortunes.

Very interesting thread.  I have recently bought a used 500 to replace my 300.  It is just back from Naim having the DR upgrade and overhaul of all the other bits.  Total cost less than 10k with my 300 still to sell.  So perhaps 7-8k for the swap from 300 to 500.  Seems like a bargain.  Also bitten the bullet and bought the SL leads for interconnects, pre-power and speakers.

This should keep me quiet for some time to come....